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Old 2018-01-12, 17:34   Link #2481
DragonOsman
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Doesn't Ise still have his human blood, too? So giving Vali Great Red's flesh should make him lose his human and Lucifer blood, either, should it? Unless Ise actually did lose his human blood (which is kind of unlikely to me).
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Old 2018-01-12, 17:40   Link #2482
Crimson406
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Ise’s human blood was in his old body before it was destroyed. His new body was made by Great Red’s flesh (containing his dragon blood).
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Old 2018-01-12, 18:45   Link #2483
DragonOsman
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Oh, so genetically speaking, he isn't his parents' son anymore? Only Great Red's son? I feel sorry for his parents if that's the case.
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Old 2018-01-12, 22:20   Link #2484
Bennia Lover
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I see the mother of Vidar and Thor being the same woman: Frigg to keep things simple. I expect Frigg herself to be introduced in the next volume.
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Old 2018-01-13, 00:04   Link #2485
Crimson406
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list of survivor, sealed, and candidates Top-10 Strongest.

Surviving Top 10:
* Ophis
* Shiva
* Indra
* Typhon
* Fenrir
* Hades
* Ajuka

Sealed Top 10:
* Vishnu
* Brahma
* Thor
* Aten
* Lugh
* Sirzechs

Top 10 Candidates:
* Great Red
* Ise
* Vali
* Crom
* Baalberith
* Verrine
* Sun Wukong
* Dulio
* Cao Cao
* Vasco Strada
* Tobio Ikuse
* Lilith (Ophis’s spawn)
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Old 2018-01-13, 00:15   Link #2486
Lucidrago
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Not that I doubt it but we don't know if Aten and Lugh are sealed. They most likely are but let's hold off until it's proven that they are.

And Strada is OP but Top 10? That's reserved for top-tier gods and god-class beings. I know most of the major gods are sealed fighting 666 but there are still plenty of gods and god-class beings left. And Strada's not one of them. Because he would have been worth 2 rook pieces if he was.
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Old 2018-01-13, 00:29   Link #2487
Crimson406
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I think Strada has a chance because of him being OP.
* Defeating Kokabiel at WWII
* Viewed as a monster by Ewald
* Killing Grendel clone and many other Evil Dragons
* Defeated Gogmagog at his current age
* Defeated EJO Vali, Bikou, Nerf Fenrir at his prime
* Defeated Arthur by exhausting him
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Old 2018-01-13, 01:29   Link #2488
syzorst
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonDarkness406 View Post
I think Strada has a chance because of him being OP.
* Defeating Kokabiel at WWII
* Viewed as a monster by Ewald
* Killing Grendel clone and many other Evil Dragons
* Defeated Gogmagog at his current age
* Defeated EJO Vali, Bikou, Nerf Fenrir at his prime
* Defeated Arthur by exhausting him
That's just it. Strada is already at his prime when he fought Vali, Bikou and Fenrir. He's already reach the height of his abilities. At his prime he is Maou class. Vali (EJO) and Fenrir were nerfed when he fought them. Arthur by himself was able to keep him occupied. If he was top 10 candidate then he would be in the same league as Crom or (full power) Fenrir and would've easily one shot Arthur. Not to mention he's a human which makes it an even less chance. The only human I see with the potential of reaching top 10 is Cao Cao and that's only because he has the strongest Longinus. Strada is strong but I doubt he could kill gods.
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Old 2018-01-13, 04:17   Link #2489
vietthai96
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GR is a candidate, i think he already have a slot
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Old 2018-01-13, 06:00   Link #2490
DragonOsman
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Of course. After all, his power is equal to Ophis (from before she was nerfed). CrimsonDarkness406 already has him on the list, though, if you notice, so there's no need to mention it.

I agree with Syzorst and Lucidrago about Strada, though, @CrimsonDarkness406. He's already at his prime and he hasn't become Top 10 material, so he shouldn't even be counted as a candidate.

Edit: Before I forget, there are still some things I have to say about Ise's current body and its powers.

In the quote I showed from the Volume 23 spoilers, Ajuka said that fully awakening the powers he inherited from Great Red and Ophis will allow him to handle Dragon Deification better and that it'll also make it so that his Evil Pieces will be able to unleash their full potential. What I think the part about the Evil Pieces means is that there's currently still a burden on them as they still have to put in extra work to reincarnate Ise. Once the powers he got from Great Red and Ophis have fully awakened, if I understood what Ajuka said correctly, the burden on his Evil Pieces will be lifted and they'll be able to show their full potential which might also mean that the amount of Demonic Power Ise gets from them will go up. Keep in mind, too, that as a Reincarnated Devil, Ise gets his Demonic Power from his Evil Pieces.

Also, there's a possibility that his base will improve as well because there's almost no way that something that's said to allow him to handle Dragon Deification better ("you'll be able to use the true Dragon Deification without putting stress on your body" or something like that) won't also have other benefits, like making his base overall better for example. The fact that his amount of Demonic Power might increase is also proof enough since that'll also mean his base improved. The question shouldn't be if his base will improve but rather if it'll be as good as or better than Vali's. Also, let me warn everyone here: even if the upcoming awakening of Great Red's power in the tournament (if that's ExE) doesn't make his base as good as Vali's, don't completely count out the full awakening of Great Red's power as never being able to improve his base that much. Remember: Ajuka said that he'll get a small portion of ExE in the tournament. It's not the full awakening, but just a part of it. Keep that in mind.

@CrimsonDarkness406: I just remembered, but it was said in the novels (somewhere in Volume 19 IIRC) that Ise's body is "mostly" a Dragon's body and that Ophis' power allows it to function closer to a human's. If it's mostly a Dragon's body, doesn't that mean there's still human left in there?
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Old 2018-01-13, 07:47   Link #2491
vietthai96
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No i mean, why GR is a candidate??? why not offical
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Old 2018-01-13, 07:57   Link #2492
DragonOsman
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Because he doesn't really fight? I mean, he's definitely Top 10 material, but since he doesn't fight, people can't count him among the Top 10.

I edited my previous to include this, but I'll say it here as well in case people miss the edit:
Quote:
Before I forget, there are still some things I have to say about Ise's current body and its powers.

In the quote I showed from the Volume 23 spoilers, Ajuka said that fully awakening the powers he inherited from Great Red and Ophis will allow him to handle Dragon Deification better and that it'll also make it so that his Evil Pieces will be able to unleash their full potential. What I think the part about the Evil Pieces means is that there's currently still a burden on them as they still have to put in extra work to reincarnate Ise. Once the powers he got from Great Red and Ophis have fully awakened, if I understood what Ajuka said correctly, the burden on his Evil Pieces will be lifted and they'll be able to show their full potential which might also mean that the amount of Demonic Power Ise gets from them will go up. Keep in mind, too, that as a Reincarnated Devil, Ise gets his Demonic Power from his Evil Pieces.

Also, there's a possibility that his base will improve as well because there's almost no way that something that's said to allow him to handle Dragon Deification better ("you'll be able to use the true Dragon Deification without putting stress on your body" or something like that) won't also have other benefits, like making his base overall better for example. The fact that his amount of Demonic Power might increase is also proof enough since that'll also mean his base improved. The question shouldn't be if his base will improve but rather if it'll be as good as or better than Vali's. Also, let me warn everyone here: even if the upcoming awakening of Great Red's power in the tournament (if that's ExE) doesn't make his base as good as Vali's, don't completely count out the full awakening of Great Red's power as never being able to improve his base that much. Remember: Ajuka said that he'll get a small portion of ExE in the tournament. It's not the full awakening, but just a part of it. Keep that in mind.

@CrimsonDarkness406: I just remembered, but it was said in the novels (somewhere in Volume 19 IIRC) that Ise's body is "mostly" a Dragon's body and that Ophis' power allows it to function closer to a human's. If it's mostly a Dragon's body, doesn't that mean there's still human left in there?
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Old 2018-01-13, 08:19   Link #2493
Crimson406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonOsman View Post
@CrimsonDarkness406: I just remembered, but it was said in the novels (somewhere in Volume 19 IIRC) that Ise's body is "mostly" a Dragon's body and that Ophis' power allows it to function closer to a human's. If it's mostly a Dragon's body, doesn't that mean there's still human left in there?
His human soul.
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Old 2018-01-13, 08:29   Link #2494
Bennia Lover
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Well his soul is human and devil.

Last edited by Bennia Lover; 2018-01-13 at 08:41.
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Old 2018-01-13, 09:36   Link #2495
Lucidrago
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Originally Posted by CrimsonDarkness406 View Post
I think Strada has a chance because of him being OP.
* Defeating Kokabiel at WWII
* Viewed as a monster by Ewald
* Killing Grendel clone and many other Evil Dragons
* Defeated Gogmagog at his current age
* Defeated EJO Vali, Bikou, Nerf Fenrir at his prime
* Defeated Arthur by exhausting him
Kokabiel was a Fallen Angel leader, not god-class.

Yeah he's a monster because a human without a powerful Sacred Gear being Maou-class is ridiculous and beyond imagination.

So everyone who defeats the Grendel clones and mass-produced Evil Dragons are Top 10 material? Then everyone in the Rookie Four should be Top 10 material.

You have to consider Maou-class is very OP and can allow you to dominate a lot of opponents. But it isn't Top 10 material. He's old and has had decades of combat experience. That's basically his limit.

And you forgot Sairaorg and Gasper.
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Old 2018-01-13, 09:47   Link #2496
DragonOsman
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^Agreed.

@Bennia Lover and CrimsonDarkness406 (about Ise's body): Yeah, just the soul, then.

In Volume 12 it says his body was destroyed and only the soul remained. And it mentioned a cocoon or cultivation capsule that had a pulse. When Ise asked what's inside, Ddraig said that his body that was destroyed once is receiving new flesh in there. So his original body was completely destroyed with nothing left (Ddraig even said that the past hosts sacrificed themselves to save Ise's soul, but that because there was no saving the body anymore, they had to discard it), and then they used a part of Great Red's flesh and Ophis' power to make him a new body. Ophis' power was probably used to make stuff like a brain, bones, and the bodily fluids aside from the blood which we know is the same as Great Red's. The flesh and blood is from Great Red while everything else is probably made from Ophis' power which also lets his body function closer to a human's. But it's still the body of a Dragon. As Ddraig said in Volume 12 before Ise left the Dimensional Gap (so before Ise got his Evil Pieces back from Rias), he's a small True Dragon. With the Evil Pieces put back in, he's now basically a small True Dragon reincarnated into a Devil.

We'll have to wait until his True Dragon powers start to awaken to see what benefits he'll get from his new body. I hope we also get an explanation about what it really means for a Dragon to be a True Dragon and why Great Red and Ise are the only ones who are called that. So far we're told that those powers and Ophis' powers fully awakening will allow him to handle Dragon Deification better, and that his Evil Pieces' full potential will also be unleashed due to the burden on them being lifted. It's from that that I think that that awakening will also improve his base, and I really hope I'm right.

And yeah, again, if Vali were to get Ophis' power of infinity, he'll be killed pretty much immediately if he tried to use it because he doesn't have Great Red's flesh. That's why DxD G (completed) is more dangerous than DxD L and why I don't think anyone who acts like it's so darn impressive that Vali can handle his DxD mode better than Ise could handle his version's completed form when he first got it really understands what's going on here or how dangerous Ophis' power really is. It's called the absolute power for a reason. Why else do you think Azazel said that a normal Devil or Dragon would already be dead? It's because Ise has Great Red's flesh that he was able to survive. He needs Great Red's flesh (and for the power in it to be fully awakened) to be able to withstand having and using that power because Great Red is, like Ophis herself, also a Dragon God. You need the flesh of another Dragon God to be able to handle Dragon Deification. That's what it means.

Okay, quotes:
From Volume 12 Life "Dimensional Gap":
Quote:
[Your body was destroyed with Samael’s curse. You are in a state where your soul was taken out of your body and put into the armour. You can say that just your soul is left. But it was a hard decision whether this was actually possible or not.]
and:
Quote:
[…..Partner. Your soul was at risk of disappearing because of Samael’s poison. It was too late for your body so we had to discard it. What would be affected after the body was your soul. At that rate, your soul was about to be eliminated by Samael’s poison. Even I thought there was no way out. I was even prepared to go to the next host.]
and:
Quote:
[Look at the far end to the left.]

I looked after Ddraig said that. –There is a swollen block of flesh. ……Did Great Red get bitten by a mosquito? Ah, it has a pulse! Is something inside?

[What’s that?]

[That is a cocoon. No, you can say that is a cultivation capsule.]

[Cocoon? Cultivation? What’s inside?]

[Yeah, your body. Your body which has been destroyed once is receiving new flesh in there. It’s giving birth to your new body with a part of Great Red’s flesh and Ophis’s powers.]
And now for Ddraig calling him a small True Dragon (Volume 12 Life.0):
Quote:
[Appearance, shape, and certain parts are the same as that of a human. You can continue your life normally like before. But since the evil-pieces are missing from your body, you can say that you are a humanoid Dragon. Even though there was help from Ophis, you received your flesh from Great Red. You can say that you are a small True-Dragon.]
I'm assuming Ddraig meant that the parts that are the same as that of a human are because of Ophis' power (she can take on any form or appearance she wants, right?) and because his body, even though it's made from Great Red's flesh, was made to look like his original body. So his body is all Dragon and looks and functions like a humans because of Ophis' power and because of made to look that way.

And about his improvements (this is mainly for anyone who thinks that his base is already much better than before - I mean really, if it was, I wouldn't need to say "wait until his powers as a True Dragon start to awaken" - this is also from Volume 12 Life.0):
Quote:
[On top of that Uroboros’ power is added into it. Even in this state, your basic physical abilities have improved a bit from before. ……Well you were originally crap to begin with, so it only improved that much……]
If anyone says one more time that his base should already be a lot of times better compared to before, I'll probably throw a fit. The novels clearly disprove that notion after all. But yeah, him getting his Evil Pieces back after that may have improved his base at least a little. At that time, due to him not having his Evil Pieces, he couldn't use the Triaina and True Queen and he also had no Demonic Power. He could use his perverted techniques, but it could just be because of his Dragon aura that he could use them. Either that or Ishibumi screwed up.

Then, Volume 19 Life.2:
Quote:
…My previous body has already been destroyed as a result of Samael’s poison. My current body was born from the flesh of Great Red. Of course, Ophis also helped make my body function like a human’s…but most of it was still a dragon’s body. After that I reincarnated as a devil again….
Sorry for bringing this up again. Alright, carry on ().
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Old 2018-01-13, 10:35   Link #2497
Gaizafaiz
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Quote:
[Yeah, your body. Your body which has been destroyed once is receiving new flesh in there. Itís giving birth to your new body with a part of Great Redís flesh and Ophisís powers.]
@DragonOsman Destroyed doesn't have to mean completely gone. The remaining of his base body is still there. Therefore we could assume that they reconstruct his body with a little bit of his original base. Like how Euclid created the artificial boosted gear using Issei's remaining flesh.
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Old 2018-01-13, 10:57   Link #2498
DragonOsman
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Probably. But from what's been stated, it does seem more like Ise's current body is all Dragon aside from the soul. The flesh and blood is definitely all Great Red's. The rest of the body may have been made by Ophis using her power for all we know. I'm not denying that some of his Ise's original body may have been left behind since Euclid did use a part of the flesh from it, but I'm just saying that from what's been said about his current body so far, it doesn't seem like anything from his original body was used to make it. At least, not the flesh. If anything else was used, then that would only be a small amount of things other than the flesh because Ise's flesh and blood is now exactly the same as Great Red's.
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Old 2018-01-13, 11:10   Link #2499
kidstandout
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Even if you assume awakening will have more benefits, you have no guarantee that one benefit will be a better base, especially when both powerups specifically mention offsetting his body issues.

Isseis flesh is not 100 percent GRs, this was already discussed so I dont c how u guys are so off about that.

And the stuff about issei being a true dragon justifying a base increase is faulty given vali is one too given the title of the current arc.
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Old 2018-01-13, 11:15   Link #2500
DragonOsman
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No, Vali isn't a True Dragon. Not yet, at least. And Ise's powers as one haven't awakened yet.

And again, awakening all of Great Red and Ophis' powers fully will allow him to handle Dragon Deification better. Why would that not improve his base? And are you seriously ignoring the part about his Evil Pieces true potential being released (since that can also mean his amount of Demonic Power increasing)? Both of those things point to the possibility of his base improving.

Ise's flesh is 100% Great Red's. The novels say it, so I don't know you're denying it. The quotes I showed weren't enough for you?
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