Mahou Senki Lyrical Nanoha Force Manga Discussion

[Enternal]

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

It was clearly through the side, I'm sorry. Why would Curren even take the chance of killing the commander, given her stated motivations?

Uhh no it's through the back. Go look at it again. Page 22 (depends on the source) of Chapter 13: Heimdall. Also Curren did it in a way that it won't kill the commander. Still a serious injury but not fatal.

[Akiyoshi]

The stomach isn't exactly on the "center" of the abdominal area so i trust Nanoha this time. Curren already stated her motivations for sparing Hayates live, it was a good move, a stomach wound isn't immediatly lethal but it can end like that if not attended quickly thus forcing Hayate to retire.

[Zero Hurricane]

If she did for no apparent reason, that's tantamount a naughty child who disturb people who sleep with firecrackers. This, however, doesn't change the fact that they prefer the stealth rather than frontally, even though we know that they are also fighting face to face with fellow Eclipse Drivers in chapters 18 and 19.

[Justin_Brett]

That doesn't make any sense, Aki. If she retired, you'd probably have someone else to deal with for the commander.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Tiresias

Yeah, I was also like "wait, what?" when that sentence appeared. And it better not be an attempt to suddenly increase her "specialness" because fancy titles don't mean sh*t if you never give her an actual moment of awesome, Tsuzuki!

Agreed. Show, Tsuzuki. Don't tell.

Originally Posted by Tiresias

Not really. Zettai Karen Children introduced anti-ESP very early in the series and spammed its use in practically everywhere ranging from department stores to amusement parks to tanks and fighter planes, and it was handled pretty well.

The trick was in how the espers responded to that counter: by learning new trick or modify what they already have to bypass or at least minimize the effects of the counter. And StrikerS took the same path, with elemental manipulations, double-layered shots, illusions and other tricks to level the terrain.

Then Force came and suddenly everybody but Hayate seem to forget those lessons

Actually, every time they encounter anti-ESP in ZKC their counter consists of "being screwed until someone brings out the anti-anti-ESP." The only exceptions being when "immune to anti-ESP Hyobu" comes to the rescue.

The real difference between the anti-ESP and anti magic is that ZKC used the anti-ESP from the beginning and kept its functions, effects and limitations consistent over the course of the story. Nanoha on the other hand, only pulled out the anti magic by the third season, and now changed its function in Force.

Because eclipse and AMF aren't the same it should not be surprising the old counters aren't effective anymore. The problem is that the manga never explains this difference clearly, which leads to confusion.

Still sloppy writing, just of a different sort. After all, the changes in anti-magic between AMF and Eclipse simply aren't needed. They already have an increased toughness and regeneration, this alone is enough to handwave how they can keep up with the mages and their anti-magic would still be enough to justify them being called "mage killers" even if it functioned the same way as it did in StrikerS, as not everyone trains those methods and said methods are far more draining for the mage. The only reason it was changed was to justify the new shinies. Which again, could have just been the usual seasonal upgrade, and didn't really need an excuse.

[Zero Hurricane]

Well, in other words, Tsuzuki wanted to create an enemy a far more godlike than before. Maybe overlapped with creator breakdown, perhaps?

[Keroko]

Please, the Hucks don't even come close to how godlike Reinforce I was at the end of A's.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

That doesn't make any sense, Aki. If she retired, you'd probably have someone else to deal with for the commander.

Retire from the battlefield during that fight, not from her mission xDU. In fact, that0's why Curren actually wants, to mantain the "cat and mice" rousse between the Huckebein and Section Six as long as possible. And Nanoha finally confirmed that the Huckebein case is indeed the exclusive jurisdiction of S6, so yeah, Hayate is in charge of this case and is responsible for the results.

Originally Posted by Keroko

Please, the Hucks don't even come close to how godlike Reinforce I was at the end of A's.

It's not like the Hyucks are "godlike" or anything, they're more of a case of being people with powers spefcifically designed to rape mages(or any magic-user style) coupled with some insane powers of their own(at least in the case of Cypha). Thus, while not godlike like Rainforce Eins they will be aprobably able to beat her just by the fact they're pretty much immune to anything she can throw at them and also able to ignore her defenses.

[Rising Dragon]

... up until it was handed to Teana, at least, in regards to the investigation.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

... up until it was handed to Teana, at least, in regards to the investigation.

Teana is a member of S6 so all remains in the family xD.

[Zero Hurricane]

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Retire from the battlefield during that fight, not from her mission xDU. In fact, that0's why Curren actually wants, to mantain the "cat and mice" rousse between the Huckebein and Section Six as long as possible. And Nanoha finally confirmed that the Huckebein case is indeed the exclusive jurisdiction of S6, so yeah, Hayate is in charge of this case and is responsible for the results.

At least she who ignited all these things are. Who sows from the beginning, he or she will harvest in the end. We'll see, who is the most ingenious, between the preys with a prey. No matter they are acting surreptitiously, they would have caught as well.

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

It's not like the Hyucks are "godlike" or anything, they're more of a case of being people with powers spefcifically designed to rape mages(or any magic-user style) coupled with some insane powers of their own(at least in the case of Cypha). Thus, while not godlike like Rainforce Eins they will be aprobably able to beat her just by the fact they're pretty much immune to anything she can throw at them and also able to ignore her defenses.

Well, in other words: "With the great power comes great perks and insanity. I wonder know, what if the power of Eclipse costs with their insanity behavior?

[Random Wanderer]

Hmm. Even the revelations about Isis' family in the latest translated chapter still don't explain how she was able to A: break chains with her bare hands, B: NOT be decapitated by an Eclipse axe to the back of the neck, and C: just SHAKE OFF having her neck broken. Isis is still a mystery. And still cute.

[Rising Dragon]

We've already explained that being a mage makes you abnormally strong, so the breaking chains bit was never a mystery.

[Koveras Alvane]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

We've already explained that being a mage makes you abnormally strong, so the breaking chains bit was never a mystery.

If they were regular chains, that is. I thought the Hucks used something more durable than steel on the one they considered the most dangerous of the trio.

[Zero Hurricane]

Not just more dangerous, but also better at it in terms of trouble maker. Hence the name, the group of unbeatable crows and ravens who always makes trouble to anyone, even those that never antagonize them.

So, I can only illustrate the Hucks are the crows/ravens, the victims are corn farm who become their daily diets, and the Section Six are the farmers.

Maybe the parable which I suggested could you say trivial, but this is the truth. Even they responsible with the Eclipse relative incidents.

NOTE: Reminds me with West Nile Virus.

[Random Wanderer]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

We've already explained that being a mage makes you abnormally strong, so the breaking chains bit was never a mystery.

They consider her to be significantly dangerous, yet you think they'd restrain her in chains that they KNOW couldn't hold her? Why would they even bother?

Not just more dangerous, but also better at it in terms of trouble maker. Hence the name, the group of unbeatable crows and ravens who always makes trouble to anyone, even those that never antagonize them.

So, I can only illustrate the Hucks are the crows/ravens, the victims are corn farm who become their daily diets, and the Section Six are the farmers.

Maybe the parable which I suggested could you say trivial, but this is the truth. Even they responsible with the Eclipse relative incidents.

NOTE: Reminds me with West Nile Virus.

...What? We were talking about Isis, and somehow you shifted into referring to the Huckebain and using some metaphor and comparison that makes very little sense and doesn't seem to have any relevance at all. I'd understand if you were returning to the earlier conversation that I interrupted, but you started off by referring to terms that were used in the discussion I started, but then shifted the topic completely.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Koveras Alvane

If they were regular chains, that is. I thought the Hucks used something more durable than steel on the one they considered the most dangerous of the trio.

Oh for the love of... no, there was never any hint that they were using super-strong material. If they were, it would've been mentioned!

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

They consider her to be significantly dangerous, yet you think they'd restrain her in chains that they KNOW couldn't hold her? Why would they even bother?

Because they found the danger in the chemicals she was carrying, not her physical strength. Which means nothing to the more physically resilient Huckebein. She only escaped because the Bureau showed up; if she attempted it before then she'd either be recaptured or killed outright.

[Random Wanderer]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Oh for the love of... no, there was never any hint that they were using super-strong material. If they were, it would've been mentioned!

If an ordinary mage could have broken out of those restraints as easily as Isis did, the Hucks wouldn't have had any reason to even bother putting them on her.

[Koveras Alvane]

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer

If an ordinary mage could have broken out of those restraints as easily as Isis did, the Hucks wouldn't have had any reason to even bother putting them on her.

Hear, hear.

[Random Wanderer]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Because they found the danger in the chemicals she was carrying, not her physical strength. Which means nothing to the more physically resilient Huckebein. She only escaped because the Bureau showed up; if she attempted it before then she'd either be recaptured or killed outright.

They took all her gear away. I ask again: why put her in restraints that they KNOW she can break out of? If they're counting on the "don't escape or we'll just capture you again or kill you" threat to hold her, they could just toss her in a room and leave her there.

Fuck it. You guys are so caught up in the cyborg theory that you won't listen to reason. I'm done.

I never said she was a cyborg. I said she was a mystery. From our perspective it is you who is not listening to reason. And the answer you seem to be using to reassure yourself still doesn't explain my next two questions. She took a blow to the neck from a divider. It would have cut straight through her magical protections, and SHOULD have taken her head off with no effort. It didn't. Judging from the tiny amount of blood on the blade, it barely even got past breaking the skin. And Deville said plainly that her neck was broken. That should have killed her, or at least left her paralyzed and unable to fight, yet she returned to the battle effectively unharmed.

Explain. And no, magic won't cut it this time.