2011-09-22, 09:10 | Link #3363 | |
Honyaku no Hime
Fansubber
Join Date: May 2008
Location: In the eastern capital of the islands of the rising suns...
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It works better if they're written in kanji 場所 【ばしょ】 (n) place, location, (P) 所 【ところ】 (n) (1) place, spot, scene, site, (2) address, (3) district, area, locality, (4) one's house, (5) point, (6) part, (7) space, room, (P) 'tokoro' is the kunyomi of that kanji, you are correct but the onyomi (sho) makes up one half of 'basho'. In a nutshell, 'ba' 場 in 'basho' has a 'physical' place, whereas 'tokoro' is used a lot mainly for 'non physical' circumstances (I'm at a point, part in my life) or to decribe a general 'area'. I just studied it without thinking on it too much, not now I take a step back, it seems to be the simpliest difference between them. Focus on their uses not the English, trust me you'll save some sanity points that way
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2011-09-22, 20:25 | Link #3364 | |
This is my title.
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Philippines
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2011-09-22, 21:51 | Link #3366 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
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場所 is usually a physical location. ところ can be both physical or non-physical, usually physical when it's written in kanji, and non-physical in kana (but it's not a rule). example of non physical usage for ところ: ところで: by the way (an expression) 彼にもかわいいところがあります: he can also be cute sometimes. (literally: he also has his cute areas) definitions: 場所 : http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/leaf/jn2...0%B4%E6%89%80/ ところ:http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/leaf/jn2...1%93%E3%82%8D/ actually, it's much easier to understand if you look at examples of how it's used: 場所 : http://eow.alc.co.jp/%E5%A0%B4%E6%89%80/UTF-8/?pg=1 所: http://eow.alc.co.jp/%E6%89%80/UTF-8/ ところ: http://eow.alc.co.jp/%E3%81%A8%E3%81.../UTF-8/?ref=sa Last edited by larethian; 2011-09-23 at 04:09. |
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2011-09-23, 04:02 | Link #3367 |
A Priori Impossibility
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: California
Age: 33
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If you're familiar with onyomi and kunyomi, it is somewhat safe to assume that many onyomi readings are more limited than an existing equivalent kunyomi counterpart. The reason for this is that kanji were not borrowed from China as a systematic whole, but in bits of pieces during different eras, and that the original purpose of these borrowings was to convey concepts that may previously have not existed and/or could be more elaborately stated in Chinese characters. Of course, there are exceptions.
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2011-09-24, 23:07 | Link #3368 |
This is my title.
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Philippines
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Thanks guys!
Especially to larethian. Those links were very useful! Everyone else's explanations were also helpful. It looks like ばしょ and ところ aren't too easy to explain. Lol. But you guys still helped a lot.
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2011-09-30, 05:16 | Link #3369 |
✘˵╹◡╹˶✘
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Australia
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Hey guys, can i have a quick question on Japanese?
How do you say this in Japanese: The horse is probably trying to make you like it The best i can think of is below, but it probably does not even make sense: Uma ha jibun ni sukinisaseru, tabun.
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2011-09-30, 12:58 | Link #3370 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
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Now that my disclaimer is made, there are actually a few potential problems with the sentence even though it might appear correct grammatically. But before that, is this a stand-alone sentence? Or part of a larger context? The later will depend on the context and to what has occurred before. Regardless however, the sentence does sound a little strange. Additionally, I believe you are trying to mean: the horse is doing something to win your favor, that is to say make itself appealing to you? Because the way you put it sounds like the horse is trying to 'force' you into liking it, implying you don't have a choice. And causative form has that kind of effect sometimes. If that's really the case, then normally, using causative form can be appropriate (though here there's another issue). Your sentence is: 馬は自分に好きにさせる。 I dropped 'tabun' because there's nothing wrong with it and it's inconsequential to the issue here. My 2 cents: 1. Is it really necessary to apply は to 馬? Is the horse really that important? Assuming you are using は as a topic marker here, you can think of 馬は as "As for the horse", "With reference to the horse". In a larger context, it can also add the effect of meaning, "The horse (but not anything else)". So is it really important to convey the meaning in this manner is my question. 2. 自分 here is a misuse. Because 自分 can mean himself, herself, myself, yourself; it depends on the context and the topic. I'm not sure whether 自分 is restricted to humans only, but based on the structure of the sentence, 自分 seems to be referring to the horse itself. 3. 好きにさせる, ie. 好きにする is a misuse. If you want to describe "turning into a state of liking", なる should be used instead. 好きにする actually means "Do (something) as one pleases". eg. XXXXを好きにする where する is applied to XXXX, so XXXX is the thing that is being done, not 好き. In the first place, note that する is "do", an action. If assuming 好き can be done, then it should be "好きする" or "好きをする", which of course doesn't work for 好き. In short, 好きにさせる thus means "let (someone) do (something) as he pleases". I'm not sure what you are trying to describe. But I think structure wise, it might be better to keep 'yourself' as an implied topic of discussion and use possibly passive-causative in such circumstances. Unless the subject (horse in this case) really becomes a topic of discussion, or you're making a comparison / emphasis of some sort in the context of discussion. Assuming my assumption is right about what you're trying to describe. I'd use "アピールする" instead of "好き". I'll let you figure out the sentence yourself, or wait for someone more qualified than me. If you want to practice writing, you can try out this site recommended by Doraneko, who does not seem to be active at AS much these days: http://lang-8.com/ where native speakers will correct you. |
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2011-09-30, 18:41 | Link #3371 | |
tl;dr
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 32
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馬は多分あなたに(あれを)好かせようとしているだろう is the best I can think of.
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2011-09-30, 19:46 | Link #3372 | |
✘˵╹◡╹˶✘
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Australia
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At first i hate the horse, and keep throw nut (or potato) trying to chase it away. But despite that, it keeps hanging around like it seems trying to make me like it Probably more nature in English than in Japanese. But then i can't think of a way to break it down, When i said "Uma ha jibun ni suki ni saseru, tabun". I tried to use the causative, "the horse probably trying to make itself likeable". "Ni suru" as when to make something +adjective (kantan ni suru = make it simpler) rather than "ni" as a purpose. But probably can't put it like that with "suki" afterall... If it does not make sense, i will just rid of that line And can't give cookies for Raiga yet as well...
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Last edited by risingstar3110; 2011-09-30 at 20:07. |
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2011-10-01, 21:36 | Link #3375 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
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In the first place Japanese doesn't translate well into English as much as the other way round. Translation is more of an art than a science, and there is no right or wrong as long as the meaning it is intended to convey is retained. Even if the subs are different, the meaning should not differ too much, unless one of the translators made a mistake in interpretation, or if a loose translation was used for a particular line to make it flow. If a show has self-invented words, non-standard names, and its own terminologies, then its up to the subber to use the one he or she thinks fits, unless there is an official English glossary provided by the source. And then there's word play lines where some translators use notes and others work it out in English even if the actual meaning diverges somewhat. The way lines are translated can also reflect the experience and English capabilities of the translator. Some of the new, inexperienced translators tend to be more literal than experienced ones. Finally, some translators prefer things to be completely localized (like Honorifics and cultural stuff) while others prefer to preserve these things in Nihonglish.
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2011-10-01, 22:26 | Link #3377 | ||
A Priori Impossibility
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: California
Age: 33
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You have to realize there's more to translation that just meaning. You have to consider the flow of conversation, connotations of words, and so many different things that could make two translations of the same text turn out differently. Another thing is sentence length: Japanese sentences can be vastly shorter or longer than their English counterparts, and in those situations a translator has to be considerate of phrasing and time on screen. Second, natural language arises out of different backgrounds-- in different situations, you may find that different languages stress different things and/or word the things differently. Just because you can speak both languages, doesn't mean you can effectively convey one idea in one language into another without having properly thought about how to do it. This requires time, and quite frankly, depending on your sub group, they'll have translators with different amounts of time and varying degrees of study in translation. And yes, translating/interpreting requires separate training from just learning a language or even teaching a language. I'll let you in on a little secret: Not all subs have accurate translations. In fact, some translations you see might be done by a Chinese-English translator translating Chinese subs to English. Other translations may be done haphazardly by non-fluent learners. Quote:
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