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Old 2021-04-20, 03:40   Link #81
Klashikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueknight78 View Post
being "too kind" is part of yoshida he is pretty much you generic super kind harem mc, which aways will be "a awesome gentleman to all womans,( i do read manga and it's without any doubts make him a lot annoying many times even going beyond being realistic). but "aways refusing "romance" because some x reasons which make him looks dumb, because this don't prevent him from keep rising ship flags like a crazy desperate guy for love.
The only part that makes Yoshida remotely similar to a "cookie cutter harem MC" is his inability to notice other feelings, particularly Mishima's. Outside of that, he is clearly not in the same mold, because
1) he's clearly gunning for Goutou and no one else, yet he is aware of his situation and still question Goutou intent and Sayu as well.
2) he acknowledged Sayu's charming points, but still didn't beat around the bush and refused
3) he had his reasons to let Sayu stay in his house but also established his reasons why he won't give in, yet came clean that it isn't just about being kind but also being lonely.

These points alone make him completely different compared to the aforementioned archetype, whereas the latter would do kind stuff "just because". Yes, that doesn't mean his feelings won't change depending how things go with Goutou, so it is possible the series could shift towards a blooming romance between him and Sayu. However, there is no wishy washy attitude or ambiguous actions he has done so far. Even his act of goodwill changed and he admitted himself that having someone else with him became another reason why he continues to give shelter to Sayu (I insist on the "it became another reason", since it wasn't initially what he wanted until she settled with him).
Honestly, I don't see how it is impossible for a guy to act the way he is when it comes to girls. Even IRL, it isn't unheard of people, be it male or female, who don't sleep with someone else unless they have feelings for each other.
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what i wanted to means here is which she already had sex before it, in school, or she was no more virgin, i wanted to means no one one day called her and foolled and take her virginity, she know about sex knows which she is hot/cute and saw the guys lust and "used it in her favor" to take a shelter while running away
Knowing about sex doesn't mean they had an actual intercourse. Sexual education lessons are standard in Japanese schools, so that doesn't mean Sayu had previous experience prior running away from Hokkaido just because she know men would fancy that kind of "payment". Even if she did, that doesn't mean she immediately believed she had to make such offer in the first place. At some point, she had to deal with hunger, lack of facilities and whatnot, so it is doubtful she would be picky if her only solution was to sell her body, moreso if the first guy told her he wanted to do her. In the end, she had to deal with that predicament for 6 months. Then it became "normal" for her to resort to such offer if she only met guys who didn't ask for anything else. Prior that, we just don't know, and the story thus far never implied she immediately thought it was the only way at the very beginning, while she stated she really hated that for obvious reasons.
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the police is aware a good exemple is the covid and the help payment for the unemployed
Covid is hardly something remotely similar to Enjo Kousai rampant issues. Yes the law is too vague and it created loophole, but even then, this isn't something you can deal with without a fundamental change in their society (which is not exclusive to Japan btw, since it is also prevalent in other SEA countries, or even in the west).
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to be clear i'm not saying which was only her fault, but it make clear which all started with her, when she run away and started to use her body as "trade" to have some shelter, she already started "broken" as we learn, she come from her home where for her being "kind" is something impossible and she just keep the same police and in the same way they used her she used then, not saying which she was having "pleasure" with then but she was getting what she wanted, which was a shelter and some food until she become too troublesome for then to keep her which also was a crap thing too from then,

what i wanted to means is which everything started from her, and her messed idea about "kindness, which now she is learning with a "king of kindness harem mc in youshida form.
We don't know if she started broken or became broken, simply because we don't know how her runaway life went early on. But again, even if she came up with that offer on her own, it still doesn't shift the responsibility here. It require both parties to consent and do it. Merely being a guy with a libido doesn't magically mean they should accept that kind of offer just because the girl says it is okay, without trying to understand why she does that in the first place.
I won't argue Sayu isn't mature when it comes to that kind of stuff, since 15-17 years old high schoolers can be pretty mature when it comes to sex. But there is a fundamental issue here: she is doing by pure necessity and not for extra cash and whatnot. All of these men knew she had nowhere to go because she asked for shelter, not money or goods. By that definition, it is blatantly obvious she is desperate and not simply partaking in "usual enjo kousai". At this point, you would wonder if they had a slightly shred of conscience.
Meanwhile, I cannot fault Sayu for thinking that way because true altruism is indeed rare, but her experience was also painfully enough for her to not expect people helping her out of true kindness. That's why instead of playing the victim, she just did whatever she believe to be necessary for her survival. In truth, I also believe unilateral kindness isn't really natural, but then again, Yoshida didn't really tell her his thoughts and opinion when he decided to let her stay, which confused her. She really needs help so she stop believing she has to provide "some advantage", since not everything has to be give-and-take. But on the other hand, worrying about what the other person wants is perfectly natural and sensible, especially given how Yoshida acted like a perfectly decent guy. This is where Sayu needs to value herself but also learn people may want simplier things.
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and while i do agree the most logical option would be call the police, but as youshida told it probably would not fix the things since she could just run away again and keep the cicle as long she keep don't believing in kindness.
Calling the police isn't the only solution. You could ask advice from other people without disclosing the minor identity. Calling a hotline service specialized in runaway kids is also an option. Hell, in extreme case scenario, contacting distant relative is also an option. In this situation, Yoshida should probably have discussed with someone like Hashimoto or Mishima for advice after realizing what he did the previous day, but his frustration overcame his better judgment and accepted Sayu without realizing the true issue she had. That said, Yoshida's decision was definitely based on the assumption turning her to the police might aggravate her issues since her parents seem to really not care about her based on her reaction and the lack of report. But that was still a rash decision and Yoshida himself knew that. But even then, there is a notable somber approach of him taking responsibility for this decision while not fooling Sayu and himself about his motivations.
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Old 2021-04-20, 11:40   Link #82
Blueknight78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
The only part that makes Yoshida remotely similar to a "cookie cutter harem MC" is his inability to notice other feelings, particularly Mishima's. Outside of that, he is clearly not in the same mold, because
1) he's clearly gunning for Goutou and no one else, yet he is aware of his situation and still question Goutou intent and Sayu as well.
2) he acknowledged Sayu's charming points, but still didn't beat around the bush and refused
3) he had his reasons to let Sayu stay in his house but also established his reasons why he won't give in, yet came clean that it isn't just about being kind but also being lonely

These points alone make him completely different compared to the aforementioned archetype, whereas the latter would do kind stuff "just because". Yes, that doesn't mean his feelings won't change depending how things go with Goutou, so it is possible the series could shift towards a blooming romance between him and Sayu. However, there is no wishy washy attitude or ambiguous actions he has done so far. Even his act of goodwill changed and he admitted himself that having someone else with him became another reason why he continues to give shelter to Sayu (I insist on the "it became another reason", since it wasn't initially what he wanted until she settled with him).
Honestly, I don't see how it is impossible for a guy to act the way he is when it comes to girls. Even IRL, it isn't unheard of people, be it male or female, who don't sleep with someone else unless they have feelings for each other..
on that let's just disagree for me he behaviour pretty generic specially later.
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Knowing about sex doesn't mean they had an actual intercourse. Sexual education lessons are standard in Japanese schools, so that doesn't mean Sayu had previous experience prior running away from Hokkaido just because she know men would fancy that kind of "payment". Even if she did, that doesn't mean she immediately believed she had to make such offer in the first place. At some point, she had to deal with hunger, lack of facilities and whatnot, so it is doubtful she would be picky if her only solution was to sell her body, moreso if the first guy told her he wanted to do her. In the end, she had to deal with that predicament for 6 months. Then it became "normal" for her to resort to such offer if she only met guys who didn't ask for anything else. Prior that, we just don't know, and the story thus far never implied she immediately thought it was the only way at the very beginning, while she stated she really hated that for obvious reasons.
as far i remember she clear stated which her sex experience started at school not with those guys but during her time in school before runaway.

And as far I've learned about japanese sex education is terrible poor, for what i saw it's almost like trying to tell about how babies appear from peachs(being sarcastic here), they barelly teach anything even protection, this is why also abortion is high among teen girls in japan", the sexual education is really poor and parents are "too shy" to try to teach/talk about it, it's almost like sex is some sort of mistic taboo where while everyone do it, talk about it or teach it to kids is almost like a crime or shamefull, which is really weird.

Quote:
Covid is hardly something remotely similar to Enjo Kousai rampant issues. Yes the law is too vague and it created loophole, but even then, this isn't something you can deal with without a fundamental change in their society (which is not exclusive to Japan btw, since it is also prevalent in other SEA countries, or even in the west).
i was no yalking specifically about this one, i was talking like when the first wave come and japan had his first lock down, then the "prostituition also had it colapse with peoples locked in home then they also started to demand the money help during the lockdown leading to the discuss.
to be clear i'm not against prostituition, as long it's done by the person because she wants like any other job then is fine which unlike usa where "most of the peoples on that are or peoples with parent issues or peoples doing out of desperation or being coarsed and others stuffs, in japan many started because they wanted and they really true enjoy it and see it as any normal job not something to be "ashamed"( well they parents in many cases do feel ashamed to have a son or daughter on this career but they themselfs don't mind), for me any job as long it don't means bad things like slavery, drugs, kill, stealing and those really true bad things then is a good job and if the person doing it enjoy why not? who i'm to decide if that person must do or not it.
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We don't know if she started broken or became broken, simply because we don't know how her runaway life went early on. But again, even if she came up with that offer on her own, it still doesn't shift the responsibility here. It require both parties to consent and do it. Merely being a guy with a libido doesn't magically mean they should accept that kind of offer just because the girl says it is okay, without trying to understand why she does that in the first place.
I won't argue Sayu isn't mature when it comes to that kind of stuff, since 15-17 years old high schoolers can be pretty mature when it comes to sex. But there is a fundamental issue here: she is doing by pure necessity and not for extra cash and whatnot. All of these men knew she had nowhere to go because she asked for shelter, not money or goods. By that definition, it is blatantly obvious she is desperate and not simply partaking in "usual enjo kousai". At this point, you would wonder if they had a slightly shred of conscience.
Meanwhile, I cannot fault Sayu for thinking that way because true altruism is indeed rare, but her experience was also painfully enough for her to not expect people helping her out of true kindness. That's why instead of playing the victim, she just did whatever she believe to be necessary for her survival. In truth, I also believe unilateral kindness isn't really natural, but then again, Yoshida didn't really tell her his thoughts and opinion when he decided to let her stay, which confused her. She really needs help so she stop believing she has to provide "some advantage", since not everything has to be give-and-take. But on the other hand, worrying about what the other person wants is perfectly natural and sensible, especially given how Yoshida acted like a perfectly decent guy. This is where Sayu needs to value herself but also learn people may want simplier things.
to be clear i never told which was only her fault, i told which most of it come from her and they just make it worst by falling to the temptation, but everything started with her.

Quote:
Calling the police isn't the only solution. You could ask advice from other people without disclosing the minor identity. Calling a hotline service specialized in runaway kids is also an option. Hell, in extreme case scenario, contacting distant relative is also an option. In this situation, Yoshida should probably have discussed with someone like Hashimoto or Mishima for advice after realizing what he did the previous day, but his frustration overcame his better judgment and accepted Sayu without realizing the true issue she had. That said, Yoshida's decision was definitely based on the assumption turning her to the police might aggravate her issues since her parents seem to really not care about her based on her reaction and the lack of report. But that was still a rash decision and Yoshida himself knew that. But even then, there is a notable somber approach of him taking responsibility for this decision while not fooling Sayu and himself about his motivations.
yeah we would have others solutions but it would not lead to all the needed drama for the serie , yoshida yoshida just did in a sense what the others did which was give her a shelter, but unlike the others he actually is trying to really help her and not fall to the temptation which is annoying her not only because of her issue about kindness but also it's somehow hurting her "pride as hot/cute girl", since for the first time someone is resisting so hard her seduction skills.
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Old 2021-04-20, 12:05   Link #83
Klashikari
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Originally Posted by Blueknight78 View Post
as far i remember she clear stated which her sex experience started at school not with those guys but during her time in school before runaway.
Let me be clear: I've only checked manga/LN content up to where the anime ended thus far, and I can tell you that it was never mentioned or even alluded. I sure hope you just mistook stuff instead of blatant spoilers.
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And as far I've learned about japanese sex education is terrible poor
Yes, it is terrible, but that was not the point. Your argument was that "she must have gone trough that in school before using that method during her runaway". However, basic knowledge from sex ed lessons is enough to have an rough idea how it works, then plainly looking for porn by curiosity is enough. This applies for girls too. And while I'm at it, I can tell you it isn't just Japan. In France and Belgium, emphasis on protected sex and whatnot is inconsistent, and campaign like "free condoms" is certainly not the norm.
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to be clear i never told which was only her fault, i told which most of it come from her and they just make it worst by falling to the temptation, but everything started with her.
My argument was that it was not even confirmed, regardless of the medium. Meaning that it could be the first adult sheltering her that gave her such idea. But even if she came up with that on her own, it just doesn't matter: Every single guy could make a proper decision. Even refusing sheltering her is more decent than that, period. Her making such offer doesn't magically mean "it starts with her". To the contrary: the problem starts with -both- her suggestion AND the guy accepting that. In my books, Sayu bears responsibility for it regardless of the harsh circumstances at home, but that's still quite minor compared to men who simply accepted just like that, then to just kick her out to boot. In a nutshell, the problem is not "whoever came up with that idea", but plainly "whoever had the choice, chance and responsibility to stop that", which is 100% on those who were not in a weak position, thus all the adult men in Sayu's case. Even if Sayu were to be an adult, this is still the men responsibility to take advice/discuss instead of immediately use their genitals.
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yeah we would have others solutions but it would not lead to all the needed drama for the serie , yoshida yoshida just did in a sense what the others did which was give her a shelter, but unlike the others he actually is trying to really help her and not fall to the temptation which is annoying her not only because of her issue about kindness but also it's somehow hurting her "pride as hot/cute girl", since for the first time someone is resisting so hard her seduction skills.
Sayu did show being frustrated for not being seen as a woman which is most likely tied to her self esteem issues but also potential feelings for him, but the main problem for her is that she just couldn't compute Yoshida's motivations, that's about it. If she was so superficial that all of that drama was just because she couldn't get laid no matter how much she tried, then the ending would have been completely different. The core theme of this part of the story is definitely how people may need something "simple" instead of always expecting a give-and-take approach, but this is something Sayu forgot or simply didn't realize because of either her misadventures or issues with her family or both.
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Old 2021-04-20, 19:32   Link #84
serenade_beta
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Honestly, you are too focalized on the "kindness" part of Yoshida: regardless how much of a plot device it is, it isn't like he is a saint or anything. His motivations aren't really outlandish either. Yes, his decision to take her in without anything specific in return is the outlier out there, but not accepting her advance or not asking her unsavory things is what's normal.
Me? No. The anime is the one that went "Oh he's so kind" like 3 or 4 times in the first half of an episode.
I'm personally just staring at the characters and wondering when anyone will tell the police about the protagonist's girl.

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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
No, as far how the anime went and how I could check the Manga and LN afterwards, it was never implied Sayu did that first. It is heavily implied no one bothered giving an option aside of sleeping with them.
All the anime has shown is her offering her body to the protagonist, and acting like a dead fish while having sex with some random guy in a flashback.
That said, the protagonist is ssooo different from every other guy she has met, and that means every other guy he has met is not kind and from the story so far must mean they are all brutes, so it is possible. Also, because I guess the story wants to portray her as a likeable character, who is a good girl in general who has only done what she has done because she had to.
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Old 2021-04-21, 03:33   Link #85
Klashikari
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Originally Posted by serenade_beta View Post
All the anime has shown is her offering her body to the protagonist, and acting like a dead fish while having sex with some random guy in a flashback.
That said, the protagonist is ssooo different from every other guy she has met, and that means every other guy he has met is not kind and from the story so far must mean they are all brutes, so it is possible. Also, because I guess the story wants to portray her as a likeable character, who is a good girl in general who has only done what she has done because she had to.
The flashback pretty much validated every single statement she made beforehand: she had to sell her body to survive for 6 months and it was obviously not for shit and giggles. Yoshida's decision doesn't even remotely have anything to do with the other men: fact is that not a single one of them helped her in any way except sheltering her in exchange of sexual intercourse. No matter how you look at it, it is morally wrong by virtue of Sayu's vulnerable situation while they could either refuse, seek advice or report her to proper authorities. None of them were forced to take her in and suggest/accept that kind of compensation, regardless who had that idea to begin with. So as that quote was in response to Blueknight's argument, no, the problem itself cannot be merely summarised as Sayu's fault. It is both parties at fault with most responsibility lying in the men who did that. In other words, I cannot believe it is remotely acceptable that an individual would just indulge themselves and have sex with someone else while the latter had no other choice whereas the former had plenty other options (and obviously, regardless of the age and gender). The fact it isn't forbidden by the law doesn't make it justifiable, so yes, those guys were scum.

Also, yes, it is a narrative plot device to give more credits to Yoshida, but it is acceptable because it is unfortunately not far fetched to have men who think with their libido instead, and do whatever they want the moment their "partner" gave "consent". But the opposite is true, which is illustrated by Yoshida, who is by no means a saint or an exception whatsoever. He himself is aware that letting her stay was not the best decision and admitted in the end he benefits from it. And at least, we were given a proper personal reason for why he doesn't do her, aside of moral/age/etc concern, since it is perfectly reasonable that someone wants to do it only with the person they love.
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Old 2021-04-21, 10:49   Link #86
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
The flashback pretty much validated every single statement she made beforehand: she had to sell her body to survive for 6 months and it was obviously not for shit and giggles. Yoshida's decision doesn't even remotely have anything to do with the other men: fact is that not a single one of them helped her in any way except sheltering her in exchange of sexual intercourse. No matter how you look at it, it is morally wrong by virtue of Sayu's vulnerable situation while they could either refuse, seek advice or report her to proper authorities. None of them were forced to take her in and suggest/accept that kind of compensation, regardless who had that idea to begin with. So as that quote was in response to Blueknight's argument, no, the problem itself cannot be merely summarised as Sayu's fault. It is both parties at fault with most responsibility lying in the men who did that. In other words, I cannot believe it is remotely acceptable that an individual would just indulge themselves and have sex with someone else while the latter had no other choice whereas the former had plenty other options (and obviously, regardless of the age and gender). The fact it isn't forbidden by the law doesn't make it justifiable, so yes, those guys were scum.

Also, yes, it is a narrative plot device to give more credits to Yoshida, but it is acceptable because it is unfortunately not far fetched to have men who think with their libido instead, and do whatever they want the moment their "partner" gave "consent". But the opposite is true, which is illustrated by Yoshida, who is by no means a saint or an exception whatsoever. He himself is aware that letting her stay was not the best decision and admitted in the end he benefits from it. And at least, we were given a proper personal reason for why he doesn't do her, aside of moral/age/etc concern, since it is perfectly reasonable that someone wants to do it only with the person they love.
the only reason i do agree which they are "scums" is because they "dumped her", if she had meet one which really took care of her and tried to help her in the same way yoshida is doing but also having sex he would not be a scum, the only reason we can call the scum is because none of them in the end really tried to helpe, while we do not know what happened with each one and for that maybe some at start tried to help but give and go only for lust the fact which in the end they dumped her it indeed make then just scums, but because in the end they only "go for the sex and when things started to feel complicated they dumped her, ofcourse if one of them had helped her in the same way yoshida is trying to do we could not have the plot, but it show which somehow the author used a bad excuse for the mc being the "only good person" she meet while all the others she meet where bad just because in the end they just wanted sex and dumped her, but just having sex with her don't make then "scums", if she had meet a "good person which had sex with her and helped her then that person for sure would not be a scum.
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Old 2021-04-21, 12:19   Link #87
Klashikari
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I guess your sense of values is completely at odds with mine. Honestly, I do believe people, regardless of their gender, are free to use their body however they wish and sex doesn't have to be with a partner you are in love with. But some circumstances do not make it okay to the slightest. In this very case, this isn't just some mere monetary compensation like your cookie cutter Enjo kousai.

Accepting such offer is not only dubious when it comes to morals but since they don't even receive something actually "solid" (goods or money) to compensate the obvious financial strain and risks of such endeavour, one might asks you "why not doing for free then?". It isn't like satisfying sexual urges are absolutely vital, so if that's the only thing they want in exchange for giving shelter, might as well doing it for free. After all, doing it for free or for sex is exactly the same thing in term of resources spent, although the latter is not only dubious in term of morals, but it is ironically a much more serious risk if that person pretends you raped them if we consider a very cynical scenario.
Please note I'm not saying "you should welcome any stranger for free". This is nonsensical. However, if someone were to do that just for sex, then what would prevent them to do that for free if they really intend to help that person? If the sole motivation is just to feel good while the other person probably wouldn't want to do that to begin with, then it is fair to consider them as scum.

See the problem? Nobody is expected to be a saint and help people without anything in return. Refusing or redirecting to someone else who has the means are perfectly fine. But readily giving shelter someone in need with such condition which is really dubious to begin with? I have hard time to believe most will find that "normal", especially the other options can be more beneficial while 1) not putting yourself at risk 2) not taking advantage of that person in need.
And then you have all of the aggravating circumstances such as Sayu not being an adult.
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Old 2021-04-21, 13:11   Link #88
Blueknight78
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I guess your sense of values is completely at odds with mine.
you nailed it perfect, for me peoples are free to do whatever they want as long they are "fine and up to it, if at one point instead of just peoples "looking for sex" and dump her, she had meet someone which really got interested in her and helped her and in the run feel in love with her it would not be much a deal, again while she is not a "adult" she not a "children either" she is on the age she is 17 at this age she can do whatever she want with whatever person she want, now if you "values" say no, it's another story i'm not here to judge peoples value i take what the show give to me not use my own value, if in the show she having sex with adults is not a deal but what they do with her is the real deal(which in this case is just they using her to have let's say "free sex" with a cute girl), then later dump her then indeed it's wrong, now if one of then even if we don't add love to the formule, just keep shelting her while trying to find her family and find the reason she is on that and try to make her go back to home bu still have sex, i really can't see it as a "monster" just because he is adult in none moment is told which none of then where a monster just because they have sex with her, the issue the issue at last for me is how they deal with it which was just "using her" and dump, because again even if they "just used her and she is fine and mature enough to know it and is not being fooled which anime never told which they lied to her then it's just a matter of "trading what you want x what i want if legaly none of them are doing anything wrong, then again who is me to "judge then" because "morals says???, the famous who i'm to say what is right and wrong if nothing they are doing is really legally wrong???.

that "morally" stuff for me normally is just a excuse for peoples trying to "bossing around other peoples life" if those peoples are doing not really wrong" legally which is wha true matter" morally don't really matter again as long it is legally right.

in the moment they do something "legally wrong then i'm totally in saying which what they are doing is wrong, however if is just a matter of "morally" then srry, but your morally means "nothing for me" in the same way i want my morallity means nothing for you and only "legal" stuff which really matters, is exactly because of "morally which we are on that mess in internet and all the cancel culture and war culture with peoples cancelling stuffs because it is "against they morals" and they believe which only wha they see as "right" is right anything else is wrong, this is why i'm not fan of "moral", because it is a very biased stuff.


i'm not saying which i'm also don't have some moral standarts and everything is valid, i do have stuffs which i do not like and for me would never be acceptable, however this don't means which i will go trying to force my moral values on others, i'm totally up for the old say: don't judge if you don't want to be judged.

ps: and as i forget the say the real deal here is because she is a runaway person, if she was not a runaway and just had leave her family to leave alone then things could even be more "right, the only legal issue is she being a runaway, which indeed is a legal issue which must be adressed and could give problems to anyone.
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Old 2021-04-21, 14:52   Link #89
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I don't understand what kind of "normal" people are talking about here anymore.
It is easy to conclude that Sayu herself is not normal.
I think Sayu's action up to now represents the definition of insanity.
But now i'm totally confused about whether Yoshida is normal or not.
Some people say Yoshida taking Sayu in as of result is normal.
Seriously, did someone tell you about what the definition of normal is?
Sure the word has many kinds of meanings, but what definition comes in at this case?
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Old 2021-04-21, 15:08   Link #90
Blueknight78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rladls2121 View Post
I don't understand what kind of "normal" people are talking about here anymore.
It is easy to conclude that Sayu herself is not normal.
I think Sayu's action up to now represents the definition of insanity.
But now i'm totally confused about whether Yoshida is normal or not.
Some people say Yoshida taking Sayu in as of result is normal.
Seriously, did someone tell you about what the definition of normal is?
Sure the word has many kinds of meanings, but what definition comes in at this case?
i would not call her "insane" since she know what she is doing, insane peoples don't do that, i would say which she is a person with issues, which the proper help and confront she have a chance to recover as we are seeying.
at last for me "normal means more like logical", what we saw more like the most logical action to do, in this manga case, the most logical act to do would be call the cops even if she "run again", because that is "normally the first option" not the only option, others options would be as yoshida did giver her a temporary shelt when the person him/herself will try to look for her family and her actions, others would have sex, for me "all of then are "normal", what is different is the priority, then normally the first option would be the most common, while the others 2 would be more "rare" because will be based on the type of person she would meet, if she meet kind peoples the chance of they do what yoshida did is high than non kind, the nonkind would most often or call the police or take her offering if they were loners or looking for "cheap sex". and those stuffs, normal as you call is really something really subject and more about how each person have they own vision about what is 'right and wrong".
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Old 2021-04-21, 15:18   Link #91
rladls2121
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Thanks for the answers.

This series, it's just too much for me to take and it is scary.
Sayu calling Yoshida "Papa" and one of Youtube videos labeled that scene as "Sayu kawaii moment".
I feel like I'm going to throw up when I think about the word "Harem" while watching this series.

It really makes me wonder what the author of this series would do if he was in Yoshida's shoes.
There are decisions of what do you want to do, must do, and should you even do something about this 24/7 insanity at all.
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Old 2021-04-21, 15:18   Link #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rladls2121 View Post
I don't understand what kind of "normal" people are talking about here anymore.
It is easy to conclude that Sayu herself is not normal.
I think Sayu's action up to now represents the definition of insanity.
But now i'm totally confused about whether Yoshida is normal or not.
Some people say Yoshida taking Sayu in as of result is normal.
Seriously, did someone tell you about what the definition of normal is?
Sure the word has many kinds of meanings, but what definition comes in at this case?
I don't think anyone was arguing about Sayu and Yoshida themselves. Their respective decisions are not something people would naturally take and both characters are aware of that. Sayu says she doesn't know what to do, while Yoshida admitted there is more to it. The recent discussion was more about the decision taken by the persons who gave shelter to Sayu in exchange for sexual intercourse. Past that, it is the usual greyzone where X or Y is acceptable depending of own morals and ethics.
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Originally Posted by rladls2121 View Post
This series, it's just too much for me to take and it is scary.
Sayu calling Yoshida "Papa" and one of Youtube videos labeled that scene as "Sayu kawaii moment".
Well, people have their own preferences and it doesn't mean they want to hear that specifically. It could be just the expression or voice. But yeah, it could also be some parental fetish. Who knows *shrugs*
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Old 2021-04-21, 15:26   Link #93
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
I don't think anyone was arguing about Sayu and Yoshida themselves. Their respective decisions are not something people would naturally take and both characters are aware of that. Sayu says she doesn't know what to do, while Yoshida admitted there is more to it.
The recent discussion was more about the decision taken by the persons who gave shelter to Sayu in exchange for sexual intercourse. Past that, it is the usual greyzone where X or Y is acceptable depending of own morals and ethics.
Sayu obviously did that to tease Yoshida considering her tone and expression afterwards. Notice she never did that afterwards.
I know, I was just wondering to myself about what is normal.

Teasing is one thing, but to call someone else as "Papa" other than the biological one. Even as a joke, I feel depressed seeing that. It really hit me for the first time when learning how she came to where Yoshida is living all the way from for god only knows how far way she is accurately from.
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Old 2021-04-21, 15:38   Link #94
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That was my bad, I only realized afterwards and changed my post while you were posting.
As for the distance, if we take the simple distance between Tokyo and Hokkaido, it is approximately 1300 km, which is around 18h by car. And of course, even with the Shinkansen, it is expensive as hell (approx JPY 30k for 8 hours), so no wonder she was broke when she is in Tokyo.
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Old 2021-04-21, 16:28   Link #95
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another thing which i feel is which she was really lucky, because while the peoples she meet before yoshiro were not exactly the "best peoples to meet" and somewhat indeed where scum for what they did, they still much better than if she had indeed get any true "sexual predator" things like rapers, or psychos or others worst things, a lot of really bad things could happened with her and we could not have a manga lol it ending before start :P, but without any doubt she was really lucky for the type of peoples she meet(at last this is what the series shows so far).
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Old 2021-04-21, 17:33   Link #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rladls2121 View Post
This series, it's just too much for me to take and it is scary.
Sayu calling Yoshida "Papa" and one of Youtube videos labeled that scene as "Sayu kawaii moment".
I feel like I'm going to throw up when I think about the word "Harem" while watching this series.

It really makes me wonder what the author of this series would do if he was in Yoshida's shoes.
There are decisions of what do you want to do, must do, and should you even do something about this 24/7 insanity at all.
Meh, I already think that this story is just the author's wish and dreams.
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Old 2021-04-21, 19:32   Link #97
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Thought for a few seconds there that I had accidentally begun watching the wrong show.

I can totally understand Sayu not believing that people will help her without expecting anything in return. That's just not normal. So I can sympathize with her relief when he provides another reason why she gets to stay. Although once that moment is over, she will probably realize that once again, she will not be needed once he gets a girlfriend. But at least that won't happen until he gets over Gotou, so she should have some time.

"Family time", huh? I guess it was a reasonable conclusion given how the two of them behaved at that time, although they don't look like siblings so she would presumably be a cousin or niece at best. But I wonder how things will develop once she starts blabbering that he has a cousin living with him... someone is bound to wonder why he has been trying to hide that, and put together their own theories.

Still hoping she grows up and goes back to Hokkaido. Still pretty sure it doesn't happen, but marginally more optimistic than last week.
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Old 2021-04-22, 06:28   Link #98
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Old 2021-04-22, 09:03   Link #99
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did they change the director for eps 2 and 3?
I felt that the quality of storytelling is decreased
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Old 2021-04-22, 09:43   Link #100
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I feel like Mishima should've been in here somewhere .
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