AnimeSuki Forums

LytHka · 2006-02-20, 16:21

http://fansub.andrewlb.com/pukiwiki.php?Spring%202006

If you've taken the time to count all anime on that wiki site, you'd noticed that there are over 50 anime shows to sub the next season and not nearly enough active fansub groups to cover them all. I'm sure some groups will manage to pick up +2 shows, still, people usually sub what they like, which brings us to my point - oversubbing.

There is really a huge quantity of promising anime titles scheduled for next season. Two of them, namely .hack//Roots and XXXHOLiC are probably the most anticipated series of the spring season, yet they'll most likely get an English DVD release and fast, since the demand is high. I, personally, don't care if one group already made plans to disregard the old fansubbing ethics and sub a (bound-to-be-)licensed series, since I'll probably watch it anyway and buy DVDs later, but I do care if a title like .hack//Roots gets humped by 15 fansubbing groups in the same hole (which will most likely happen) and leave other great shows of the season alone. Those kind of fansubbers will disregard facts that popular shows will get a legal translation anyway and that only speedsubbers will take highest download numbers.

The meaning hidden behind the rant is that resources will be wasted terribly this way.

First and foremost, what I want to achieve with this post is that people won't go around forming new and smaller groups, yet to rather harvest the prescious translators for something else than oversubbing. It's the fansubber's job to get the translators looking at other titles. Send them manga, send them novels, send them the game, get them interested in an alternative title!

Second, I want to see some cooperation between fansubbing groups. Use roxfan's wiki (link above) to make some agreements with fansubbers about who will sub what, use this topic (I can even set an alternative forum for this), use IRC! I'm sure a lot of you have a representative in #fansubbers on Rizon (if not, PM me).

The deal is for us guys to start communicating more, no matter what quality standard we work on or what kind of ethics we follow.
Some of us at Froth-Bite were pretty disappointed that REC got humped so badly when we had work done on two episodes already, so we just cancelled the releases. Oversubbing has no meaning for the good of the community, and to limit it, a fansubber needs to stop being selfish, no matter how much he/she loves or anticipates a show. If it's popular, don't worry, you'll get to see it translated, just without your help.

I may not be the best person to start this thread, but this is no utopia. We should start communicating a bit better. Reply and we can go from there.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Taking bets right now (to lighten the mood); I'll write them down in my first post, on the subject of how many groups will sub a certain show. A number and the series' name will suffice! Leechers are welcomed to participate!

.

bayoab · 2006-02-20, 16:32

Voice of reality: It won't help. The wiki has been there for years, we did it by website before, it doesn't work. I have given up all hope in this. Also, 50 series does not mean 50 series worth subbing. Probably less than 15 of them are even worth watching. Which means that fansubbers will select 5 of them for oversubbing.

I hate this "community".

LytHka · 2006-02-20, 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by bayoab

Also, 50 series does not mean 50 series worth subbing. Probably less than 15 of them are even worth watching. Which means that fansubbers will select 5 of them for oversubbing.[/SIZE]

Of course, not all the listed series are attractive enough to be subbed, but personally, I'd increase that number of worthy anime to 26.

I don't think we ever saw a season where 20 titles were fansubbed.

voxvam · 2006-02-20, 17:26

Sadly some people don't understand how difficult it is to start a fansub group.
It would make things a lot easier if they would decide to work with another group instead of trying to create their own.

In the past week, I think 4 different "just starting" groups have asked for my help with stuff - it's amazing how many new groups are out there.

I agree, more communication would be rather helpful. The methods currently used have serious faults.

The wiki - while excellent for finding out about new series has the problems that not everyone uses it and that any person can pretend to be any person.

I've been in #fansubbers before, but to be quite frank I found that it was basically just a channel to idle in and didn't do much. Granted, I didn't stay in there very long either.

I would be more then happy to consider alternatives, as the community as a whole could definitely benifit with more conversation and cooperation. Especially if the result is less groups doing a greater share of the availiable series.

el · 2006-02-20, 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by LytHka

Of course, not all the listed series are attractive enough to be subbed, but personally, I'd increase that number of worthy anime to 26.

I don't think we ever saw a season where 20 titles were fansubbed.

http://fansub.andrewlb.com/pukiwiki....%202005%2F2006

According to the list on the right hand side for the current season, there are currently 18 different unlicenced titles that have been released by different groups. And of the licenced ones, I know of fansubs for two, possibly three of them, with a fourth having been subbed last season as an OVA series, and now actually airing on regular TV.

Also, of the 35 listed anime on there, only seven of them have not got any subber/licencing/Media Factory information next to them.

EDIT: Looking at Fall 2005, there are over 25 different shows being subbed on there as well. There is a wide variety of anime being released over the last few seasons.

Schneizel · 2006-02-20, 23:04

I would like to sub .hack//roots because I am a .hack fan. ~_~

(And because Lythka's #'s and crap don't intimidate me~)

gnuffiehot · 2006-02-21, 02:50

As already said before, you shouldn't underestemate subbing groups. There are a lot out there, be it that they're just starting, or that they've been out there for a long time.

I bet more than half the series on that wiki will get subbed. The rest just sucks enough to not get subbed >.>

Kazekun · 2006-02-25, 00:37

It'll be interesting, none the less.

deathbygirl · 2006-02-25, 01:07

I don't see the point in trying to persuade people not to oversub a series. People will work on what they want to work on, and it should be their prerogative to do so. The "precious resources" you refer to (i.e. translators) also usually choose what series they wish to work on; I don't think anyone has any right to tell them to do otherwise, within or outside of the group. Aren't you being the selfish one here, asking people conform to your requests for "the sake of the community" ideals? Forcing (or heavily persuading, if you want to get diplomatic) a group or individuals to work on something they did not intend to work on sounds completely illogical, especially when they're doing the work as a hobby. I was under the impression that a hobby was something one enjoyed doing by their own will, not a task imposed onto them by someone else. So what if a series is oversubbed by fifteen groups? As long as they believe their efforts weren't wasted and they enjoyed the process, I don't see a problem with it.

Secondly, I'm not surprised there is a severe lack of communication and correlation between groups. Those who aren't stupid refer to occurrences of the past, and those occurrences have shown us sour relationships and failed projects as a result of disorganized or tenative collaboration between groups. I find it almost expected that the wiki, IRC, or whatever other resources left for groups to use aren't (and more importantly, will never) be put to use. The best (and least troublesome) method is to just come to a consensus as a group and worry about themselves, as opposed to having to worry about all these other groups and unwanted factors.

LytHka (and Froth-Bite), the group's committment to not contributing to oversubbing is great, perhaps worthy of notice. That is your prerogative, and it's your right to exercise it. Kodachrome, if you want to work on the entire list of anime series, go for it. That's your prerogative. I don't think any single person has a right to say otherwise. Likewise, I don't believe anything can be said against groups who are dedicated to the work they do, oversubbed or undersubbed.

Is it just me, or is there some kind of nerve that gets hit when people talk about this issue? I don't see why people are getting upset over a factor they have no control over. If you feel that the attention one series isn't grabbing is an injustice, do something about it yourself or don't complain to other people and pressure them into doing something they might not be interested in. People transform this issue of fansubbing into a needlessly complex organizational scheme; when all is said and done, it's just a hobby where people work on projects that interest them most. For all the time spent, effort given, and labor required, let groups do what they want. Like I emphasized before, no release is worthless (no matter how many copies of the same episode and/or series there are) as long as the people who worked on the episode enjoyed doing so and believed it was worth the resources.

Tommy Feb6 · 2006-02-25, 01:30

Why do we still care about any of this?

If a certain show is really all that great it will be subbed.

Anime+ · 2006-02-25, 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommy Feb6

Why do we still care about any of this?

If a certain show is really all that great it will be subbed.

Your pretty much summed it up. There really are not that many hidden gems, what is good gets subbed, sometimes even what is bad gets subbed. There are a lot of new titles, but there are only so many that are worth subbing.

naka · 2006-02-25, 01:44

so are people already throwing the towel on this current season (winter2005/2006)?

the wiki's only good for seeing that non-popular stuff gets neglected...

there are still several good shows this season that's not subbed...at all -_-'..

DryFire · 2006-02-25, 01:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by LytHka

I, personally, don't care if one group already made plans to disregard the old fan subbing ethics and sub a (bound-to-be-) licensed series, since I'll probably watch it anyway and buy DVDs later, but I do care if a title like .hack//Roots gets humped by 15 fan subbing groups in the same hole (which will most likely happen) and leave other great shows of the season alone.

I'm glad you'd be willing to put your ethics behind and so graciously allow people to sub theses series! It's also nice to know that ethics are influenced by "How much I want to see this."

As far as 15 groups subbing it, I have a feeling even if 15 groups announce an intention to sub it only about 10 will release episode 1 and it'll 5 or less shortly.

One current example would be Hantuki:
I believe Eval Powar and SD (maybe Anime-Universe?) all posted on the wiki saying they planned to do it.

Akai-Anime released a trailer for it.

Shintabi, AnimeU and Akai all released episode 1 before episode 2 aired (or shortly thereafter).
Kuroneko releases 1 and 2 before 3 airs.
Eval Powar released episode 1 after episode 4 had aired.
SD has yet to release.

Shintabi stalled (dropped? vanished?) at episode 2.
AnimeU and Akai have stalled at episode 3.
Kuroneko has finished the series.

That leaves 1 group so far who has completed the series and has done it at a quick pace.

Also as far as formats go we have 4 groups doing xvid in avi releases and 1 group H.264 in mkv releases. (Everyone should know by know I'm anti avi)

As for quality, I shall decline to comment as I'm biased in this matter and haven't really compared.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a similar situation occur with some of the more popular series as real life rears its ugly head.

Finally, I think most people sub a series because they enjoy it. Just because a billion other people sub it is probably not something they’ll stop for, nor should they have to. True it is sad when a good smaller series gets overlooked, but it’s not because there aren’t enough people to sub it.

I think it could be fun to do a joint, but in a lot of cases find two groups that want to do the same series, get along well and have the people the other group is missing is very hard.

Harry Paratesticles · 2006-02-25, 03:58

LytHka's fansubbing elitism is astounding. I don't see every fansubber becoming converted to this proposed almighty church of fansubbing; people will do what they want to. I think it's healthy for people to want to work on series they like. Now, if it comes to a point where they'd rather just enjoy another group's encodes than work on it themselves, that's entirely up to them. Otherwise, why try to bully them with fansub elitism into working on some series they don't care for simply because it's not being subbed? Communication is good, but what's proposed is communism. Every group does something a little different, either for better or worse, which dooms any sort of utopian community we could ever wish for. This new season coming up's got a lot of good stuff, let's not taint it all before anything airs. All we can do individually is keep an open mind to cooperation and hope for the best.

Enragin_Angel · 2006-02-25, 04:24

In theory, communism works. In theory...

Sorry, just had to say it.

Grv · 2006-02-25, 05:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by voxvam

I've been in #fansubbers before, but to be quite frank I found that it was basically just a channel to idle in and didn't do much. Granted, I didn't stay in there very long either.

What's the key?

There are always going to be over subs. I personally have my eye on KIBA (if I can pick up a TL!)

Twistey · 2006-02-25, 05:33

Quote:

If you've taken the time to count all anime on that wiki site, you'd noticed that there are over 50 anime shows to sub the next season and not nearly enough active fansub groups to cover them all. I'm sure some groups will manage to pick up +2 shows, still, people usually sub what they like, which brings us to my point - oversubbing.

Groups do what they want themself, or where they have the resources (Like Translator, Timer and such) You don't let people work on stuff they won't even like, working on something you don't like will take longer then working on something you like.

Quote:

Second, I want to see some cooperation between fansubbing groups. Use roxfan's wiki (link above) to make some agreements with fansubbers about who will sub what, use this topic (I can even set an alternative forum for this), use IRC! I'm sure a lot of you have a representative in #fansubbers on Rizon (if not, PM me).

Something like that will never work people will sub what they feel like or have the resources for. You don't go and sub some show that doesn't fit your group or something. It's an nice idea but it will never work out there are still enough stuborn people who will oversub.

CelesAurivern · 2006-02-25, 07:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by LytHka

[url]which brings us to my point - oversubbing.

Certainly.
OVERSUBBING-UNLIMITED has already registered for Disgaea.
I hope many many others will join the bandwagon

Twistey · 2006-02-25, 07:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by CelesAurivern

Certainly.
OVERSUBBING-UNLIMITED has already registered for Disgaea.
I hope many many others will join the bandwagon

Hehe well oversubbing gives fans a lot of choice on a sub :P Though Disgaea will get oversubbed just because of the games

CelesAurivern · 2006-02-25, 07:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twistey

Hehe well oversubbing gives fans a lot of choice on a sub :P Though Disgaea will get oversubbed just because of the games

That's exactly the basis of which I'm choosing that show on.
If Disgaea is NOT oversubbed by at least 5 other groups (joints do not count as a single entity), I will disband Osu!
That's how confident I am.

2006-02-20, 16:21	Link #1
LytHka Banned Join Date: Jan 2004	A friendly reminder... http://fansub.andrewlb.com/pukiwiki.php?Spring%202006 If you've taken the time to count all anime on that wiki site, you'd noticed that there are over 50 anime shows to sub the next season and not nearly enough active fansub groups to cover them all. I'm sure some groups will manage to pick up +2 shows, still, people usually sub what they like, which brings us to my point - oversubbing. There is really a huge quantity of promising anime titles scheduled for next season. Two of them, namely .hack//Roots and XXXHOLiC are probably the most anticipated series of the spring season, yet they'll most likely get an English DVD release and fast, since the demand is high. I, personally, don't care if one group already made plans to disregard the old fansubbing ethics and sub a (bound-to-be-)licensed series, since I'll probably watch it anyway and buy DVDs later, but I do care if a title like .hack//Roots gets humped by 15 fansubbing groups in the same hole (which will most likely happen) and leave other great shows of the season alone. Those kind of fansubbers will disregard facts that popular shows will get a legal translation anyway and that only speedsubbers will take highest download numbers. The meaning hidden behind the rant is that resources will be wasted terribly this way. First and foremost, what I want to achieve with this post is that people won't go around forming new and smaller groups, yet to rather harvest the prescious translators for something else than oversubbing. It's the fansubber's job to get the translators looking at other titles. Send them manga, send them novels, send them the game, get them interested in an alternative title! Second, I want to see some cooperation between fansubbing groups. Use roxfan's wiki (link above) to make some agreements with fansubbers about who will sub what, use this topic (I can even set an alternative forum for this), use IRC! I'm sure a lot of you have a representative in #fansubbers on Rizon (if not, PM me). The deal is for us guys to start communicating more, no matter what quality standard we work on or what kind of ethics we follow. Some of us at Froth-Bite were pretty disappointed that REC got humped so badly when we had work done on two episodes already, so we just cancelled the releases. Oversubbing has no meaning for the good of the community, and to limit it, a fansubber needs to stop being selfish, no matter how much he/she loves or anticipates a show. If it's popular, don't worry, you'll get to see it translated, just without your help. I may not be the best person to start this thread, but this is no utopia. We should start communicating a bit better. Reply and we can go from there. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Taking bets right now (to lighten the mood); I'll write them down in my first post, on the subject of how many groups will sub a certain show. A number and the series' name will suffice! Leechers are welcomed to participate! . Last edited by LytHka; 2006-02-25 at 13:27.

2006-02-20, 23:04	Link #6
Schneizel uwu Fansubber Join Date: Dec 2005	I would like to sub .hack//roots because I am a .hack fan. ~_~ (And because Lythka's #'s and crap don't intimidate me~) Last edited by Schneizel; 2006-02-24 at 21:51.

2006-02-20, 16:32	Link #2
bayoab Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003	Voice of reality: It won't help. The wiki has been there for years, we did it by website before, it doesn't work. I have given up all hope in this. Also, 50 series does not mean 50 series worth subbing. Probably less than 15 of them are even worth watching. Which means that fansubbers will select 5 of them for oversubbing. I hate this "community".

2006-02-20, 17:26	Link #4
voxvam Shin-Otaku Shyguy Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Canada	Sadly some people don't understand how difficult it is to start a fansub group. It would make things a lot easier if they would decide to work with another group instead of trying to create their own. In the past week, I think 4 different "just starting" groups have asked for my help with stuff - it's amazing how many new groups are out there. I agree, more communication would be rather helpful. The methods currently used have serious faults. The wiki - while excellent for finding out about new series has the problems that not everyone uses it and that any person can pretend to be any person. I've been in #fansubbers before, but to be quite frank I found that it was basically just a channel to idle in and didn't do much. Granted, I didn't stay in there very long either. I would be more then happy to consider alternatives, as the community as a whole could definitely benifit with more conversation and cooperation. Especially if the result is less groups doing a greater share of the availiable series.

2006-02-21, 02:50	Link #7
gnuffiehot Member Join Date: Feb 2004	As already said before, you shouldn't underestemate subbing groups. There are a lot out there, be it that they're just starting, or that they've been out there for a long time. I bet more than half the series on that wiki will get subbed. The rest just sucks enough to not get subbed >.>

2006-02-25, 00:37	Link #8
Kazekun Kazenokoe Slave Join Date: Aug 2004	It'll be interesting, none the less.

2006-02-25, 01:07	Link #9
deathbygirl Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005	I don't see the point in trying to persuade people not to oversub a series. People will work on what they want to work on, and it should be their prerogative to do so. The "precious resources" you refer to (i.e. translators) also usually choose what series they wish to work on; I don't think anyone has any right to tell them to do otherwise, within or outside of the group. Aren't you being the selfish one here, asking people conform to your requests for "the sake of the community" ideals? Forcing (or heavily persuading, if you want to get diplomatic) a group or individuals to work on something they did not intend to work on sounds completely illogical, especially when they're doing the work as a hobby. I was under the impression that a hobby was something one enjoyed doing by their own will, not a task imposed onto them by someone else. So what if a series is oversubbed by fifteen groups? As long as they believe their efforts weren't wasted and they enjoyed the process, I don't see a problem with it. Secondly, I'm not surprised there is a severe lack of communication and correlation between groups. Those who aren't stupid refer to occurrences of the past, and those occurrences have shown us sour relationships and failed projects as a result of disorganized or tenative collaboration between groups. I find it almost expected that the wiki, IRC, or whatever other resources left for groups to use aren't (and more importantly, will never) be put to use. The best (and least troublesome) method is to just come to a consensus as a group and worry about themselves, as opposed to having to worry about all these other groups and unwanted factors. LytHka (and Froth-Bite), the group's committment to not contributing to oversubbing is great, perhaps worthy of notice. That is your prerogative, and it's your right to exercise it. Kodachrome, if you want to work on the entire list of anime series, go for it. That's your prerogative. I don't think any single person has a right to say otherwise. Likewise, I don't believe anything can be said against groups who are dedicated to the work they do, oversubbed or undersubbed. Is it just me, or is there some kind of nerve that gets hit when people talk about this issue? I don't see why people are getting upset over a factor they have no control over. If you feel that the attention one series isn't grabbing is an injustice, do something about it yourself or don't complain to other people and pressure them into doing something they might not be interested in. People transform this issue of fansubbing into a needlessly complex organizational scheme; when all is said and done, it's just a hobby where people work on projects that interest them most. For all the time spent, effort given, and labor required, let groups do what they want. Like I emphasized before, no release is worthless (no matter how many copies of the same episode and/or series there are) as long as the people who worked on the episode enjoyed doing so and believed it was worth the resources.

2006-02-25, 01:30	Link #10
Tommy Feb6 Lonely in Gorgeous, Yeah~ Join Date: Dec 2005	Why do we still care about any of this? If a certain show is really all that great it will be subbed.

2006-02-25, 01:44	Link #12
naka Member Join Date: Dec 2005	so are people already throwing the towel on this current season (winter2005/2006)? the wiki's only good for seeing that non-popular stuff gets neglected... there are still several good shows this season that's not subbed...at all -_-'..

2006-02-25, 03:58	Link #14
Harry Paratesticles Regular Joe/Hentai Worker Join Date: Feb 2006	LytHka's fansubbing elitism is astounding. I don't see every fansubber becoming converted to this proposed almighty church of fansubbing; people will do what they want to. I think it's healthy for people to want to work on series they like. Now, if it comes to a point where they'd rather just enjoy another group's encodes than work on it themselves, that's entirely up to them. Otherwise, why try to bully them with fansub elitism into working on some series they don't care for simply because it's not being subbed? Communication is good, but what's proposed is communism. Every group does something a little different, either for better or worse, which dooms any sort of utopian community we could ever wish for. This new season coming up's got a lot of good stuff, let's not taint it all before anything airs. All we can do individually is keep an open mind to cooperation and hope for the best.

2006-02-25, 04:24	Link #15
Enragin_Angel ナマケモノ Join Date: Jul 2003	In theory, communism works. In theory... Sorry, just had to say it.