Evangelion Rebuild 3.0: You can (not) Redo [Evangelion Shin Gekijouban: Q]

[zztop]

Do you think Anno has the whole story planned out, or does he just make it up as he goes along?

[AmeNoJaku]

Originally Posted by zztop

Do you think Anno has the whole story planned out, or does he just make it up as he goes along?

99% of the time writers go with flow (assuming Anno is influencing the writing)

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by zztop

Do you think Anno has the whole story planned out, or does he just make it up as he goes along?

I'm with AmeNoJaku on this: it's all about the money. The original show had a different drive behind it's story with Anno and his depression but these new movies? Money, pure and simple.

[Zaresh]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Good Lord, making this the first NGE thing you watch is a really horrible idea. I've watched everything there is to watch multiple times over and I still had no idea what Anno was thinking.

It was my second and I liked it.

[Guardian Enzo]

What was the first?

[brocko]

So I've actually had a little time within the past few days to recollect my thoughts on 3.33 after initial watching.

Eva 3.33 is a film that I don't think you can generally really understand or appreciate on a first viewing. The whole thing is just so vastly different to any Eva's of the past that you just can't help but be taken aback by it all and feel alienated. It catches you totally off guard, and it is very easy to tunnel vision through the rest of the film, focusing almost entirely on that one aspect alone; how it's so far removed from previous Eva's that it's no longer the Eva you once knew. I'll even go so far as to say that it throws almost all of the last two films completely out of the window, leaving a very massive disconnect for people to try and swallow.

I don't blame people for feeling entirely lost (or even betrayed if you're really that extreme) by the end of it. In fact, I actually do believe it to be one of the films intentions so bravo to them on that aspect. It allows us to better empathise with Shinji who's also been thrown off into the deep end of the story much in the same way that we were. At surface level the actual events and actions of the film itself weren't hard to follow but the major cause for much of the confusion I felt stemmed from a lack of underlying motives that was never really made clear nor explained. This is where you kinda have to go digging between the lines and cracks for answers, which is very reminiscence of the original Eva series, particularly EoE. They tell you just enough to raise questions, but very rarely will they ever lay the answers out there right in front of you. You could even argue 3.33 as going back to the true nature of the Evangelion with the reinclusion of character suffering, plot analysis through forceful rewatching and reaction controversies. There were really big EoE vibes from 3.33 for me while watching it to be honest.

Some fun facts:
- The preview at the end of 2.0 for 3.0.

None of those scenes made it into the final film. Kaiji even got more screen time in that preview than he did in the final film lol I'm guessing they must've had a change of plans halfway through. It seemed like the initial plan was to have 3.0 deal with the direct aftermath of Near Third Impact, but then for whatever reason they figured lollets14yeartimeskipisntead. Previews for 2.0 at the end of 1.0 didn't entirely match up with the final 2.0 film either, so that preview we saw for 4.0 I'm taking with a grain of salt.

- Fuyutsuki tells Shinji while they're playing Shogi that he loses in 31 moves. About 31 minutes later Kaworu gets splattered lol

- The opening fight scene in space didn't actually having Mari singing in the background for 3.0. They added this in later for 3.33. The way Asuka eventually told Mari to shut the hell up, I couldn't help but feel to be a slight jab towards Macross lol

[Zaresh]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

What was the first?

The original series, and I didn't finish it: I hated every character in there.

But I've read a ton, if that counts.

[AmeNoJaku]

Originally Posted by Zaresh

The original series, and I didn't finish it: I hated every character in there.

But I've read a ton, if that counts.

Makes sense... each movie was adapted (plot/character-wise) for their contemporary era, in order to be commercially successful

Don't get me wrong, I liked the movie, probably because I was not expecting to evoke the same thoughts and feelings as the TV series or the first movies did... personally, I prefer the original TV run, but that has to do with the context in which I watched it... people lacking that would prefer either the first or this rewrite for the theaters.

That said, I don't think that the EVA story needed more explanation then the TV series had to offer, and despite enjoying the extensions offered, they are unnecessary for the franchise artistically, but take advantage of it commercially.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by zztop

Do you think Anno has the whole story planned out, or does he just make it up as he goes along?

The way I see it, he probably realised that the 4th film was too long, so he removed the planned third film entirely and just have the 4th film part 1 as 3.33 and part 2 as 4.44.

Anno does plan things out. But he is not afraid to change things if he wanted to.

I'm with AmeNoJaku on this: it's all about the money. The original show had a different drive behind it's story with Anno and his depression but these new movies? Money, pure and simple.

If it is just about the money then there would be no reason to have the timeskip. Anno is still not afraid to do whatever he wants, knowing that's what puts bums in seats. To make a film for money means making a SAFE film. There is nothing safe and reassuring about a 14 year timeskip.

[AmeNoJaku]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

The way I see it, he probably realised that the 4th film was too long, so he removed the planned third film entirely and just have the 4th film part 1 as 3.33 and part 2 as 4.44.

Anno does plan things out. But he is not afraid to change things if he wanted to.

So if he plans something but completely changes it in the way, depending on how things are turning out, what's the point of having a long-term plan not follwed to begin with

I am speculating here, but personally judging how different are the three new films, I can resist the urge to say, that even he did had a plan for the 2nd when the 1st finished, he didn't follow it... same for the 3rd, probably the 4th and so on.

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

If it is just about the money then there would be no reason to have the timeskip. Anno is still not afraid to do whatever he wants, knowing that's what puts bums in seats. To make a film for money means making a SAFE film. There is nothing safe and reassuring about a 14 year timeskip.

If the made a "safe" film, it wouldn't sell as much as his "WTF" works do.

[desrtsku]

Originally Posted by AmeNoJaku

If the made a "safe" film, it wouldn't sell as much as his "WTF" works do.

But his wtf works make sense ... in their own peculiar ways.

[Zaresh]

Originally Posted by AmeNoJaku

Makes sense... each movie was adapted (plot/character-wise) for their contemporary era, in order to be commercially successful

Don't get me wrong, I liked the movie, probably because I was not expecting to evoke the same thoughts and feelings as the TV series or the first movies did... personally, I prefer the original TV run, but that has to do with the context in which I watched it... people lacking that would prefer either the first or this rewrite for the theaters.

That said, I don't think that the EVA story needed more explanation then the TV series had to offer, and despite enjoying the extensions offered, they are unnecessary for the franchise artistically, but take advantage of it commercially.

To be honest, I half watched the TV series while I was at the university, 8 years ago or so. It was a weird feeling because most of people liked it: I felt like being put aside from most of the fans of anime at the time, he he. But I just couldn't get to like the main characters in there. Specially Asuka, who looked like a bully or a spoiled girl for me (I can't stand that kind of people who "knows" everything and is never honest to iteself, and just... hurt others). I neither liked Shinji (I think; It's been a while since then), because he lacked assertiveness, self-confidence and patience, and he never asked the right questions (I can't express myself in english right enough, but I think this will do it). And the remaining characters felt from "meh" to "annoying" to me.

Probably, If I watch the TV series again, knowing what's the point of those characters, I can finally bear them. Or maybe not, I guess I'll give it a new try this summer.

[AmeNoJaku]

Originally Posted by desrtsku

But his wtf works make sense ... in their own peculiar ways.

They indeed do make sense, but not to the average viewer

Originally Posted by Zaresh

To be honest, I half watched the TV series while I was at the university, 8 years ago or so. It was a weird feeling because most of people liked it: I felt like being put aside from most of the fans of anime at the time, he he. But I just couldn't get to like the main characters in there. Specially Asuka, who looked like a bully or a spoiled girl for me (I can't stand that kind of people who "knows" everything and is never honest to iteself, and just... hurt others). I neither liked Shinji (I think; It's been a while since then), because he lacked assertiveness, self-confidence and patience, and he never asked the right questions (I can't express myself in english right enough, but I think this will do it). And the remaining characters felt from "meh" to "annoying" to me.

What you mentioned, was what I loved about EVA's original characterization... they were realistically flawed and easy to identify with one of them. Shinji being that creepy kid none talks to, Asuka being that popular school bitch, Touji being the school bully, Kenosuke that sidekick to avoid getting bullied, Gendou the strict dad every kid perceives, Yui the idealized mom that hides her sinister nature, Ritsuko the typical stepmom from the kid's perspective, Misato the adult not yet over her daddy issues ruining her own relationships, Ryouji the boyfriend everyone dreams about only to get disappointed when getting him, and Kouzou the standard uni prof leeching his students... all very real, and well presented over two cours... what EVA thankfully wasn't about was giant robots saving the world... that's why it was good and popular with teens AND young adults at the time, but all the symbolism and controversy made it popular abroad

Originally Posted by Zaresh

Probably, If I watch the TV series again, knowing what's the point of those characters, I can finally bear them. Or maybe not, I guess I'll give it a new try this summer.

Dunno, it depends what you expect to watch, as well as what you want to make of it... reading the comments about this movie, I see that many "fans" have already formed opinions before watching, and only do so in order to have "arguments" for the ensuing "discussions" on- and off-line

[Grey]

The first NGE I watched was Eva 2.22. And then 3.33. 3.33 felt a little fragmented. Maybe because it was less about "events happening in the larger plot" and more about "following Shinji's actions." But I was more interested in the new world and the conflict and plans. So the entire middle of the movie felt like following Shinji as he...doesn't do much.

Of course, I'd heard and read a lot about the series before then. But I never felt like watching it. And I'm only just now going back to watch 1.11.

[Bri]

Originally Posted by AmeNoJaku

What you mentioned, was what I loved about EVA's original characterization... they were realistically flawed and easy to identify with one of them. Shinji being that creepy kid none talks to, Asuka being that popular school bitch, Touji being the school bully, Kenosuke that sidekick to avoid getting bullied, Gendou the strict dad every kid perceives, Yui the idealized mom that hides her sinister nature, Ritsuko the typical stepmom from the kid's perspective, Misato the adult not yet over her daddy issues ruining her own relationships, Ryouji the boyfriend everyone dreams about only to get disappointed when getting him, and Kouzou the standard uni prof leeching his students... all very real, and well presented over two cours... what EVA thankfully wasn't about was giant robots saving the world... that's why it was good and popular with teens AND young adults at the time, but all the symbolism and controversy made it popular abroad

I'm sure a lot of people outside of Japan felt the same way. The characterization is what made Eva special. The flaws, the self destructive drive and their motives made each character to a certain degree sympathetic. I hadn't seen anything like it at the time. Eva also fit right in with the mood at the time, the grunge/emo period, Y2K etc. If one cannot see past the window dressing, that is their loss.

[Tempester]

Well, this thing was completely awful, devoid of sense or clarity, and detached (in both plot and mood) from the previous two movies to the point that it doesn't even feel like a proper sequel.

And I liked the first two Rebuild films. They were like a less heavy and more energetic version of the TV series. Even though I prefer the TV series above all, I liked the change in direction and the more optimistic mood in Rebuild. Why did the third movie have to throw all that out? I feel like this movie was just controversial for the sake of controversy rather than to entertain and please the audience.

[Jan-Poo]

There's one thing that I just happened to ponder about after a few days from viewing this movie. The fact that Shinji doesn't kill Kaworu with his own hands is really a pretty significant change.

In a certain way one of the key elements you could see in Evangelion is the slow unwilling descent of Shinji into the role of the cruel anti-hero. There is an evident subversion of the usual trope of the super robot pilot (save people, save the world) which is gradual and proceeds by small steps.

It starts from the very beginning, Shinji is soon confronted with the fact that while he piloted the Eva some people were hurt, he even get "punished" for that by Touji, who gives him a physical reminder.

That wasn't really Shinji's fault, but it was already a first step, the knowledge that piloting super robots doesn't make you a hero.

This theme escalates when Shinji is confronted with a direct order to attack and potentially kill his own friend Touji, the very same guy that first was "hurt" by his piloting the Eva. An order, this, that Shinji refuses to obey, but that is cruelly executed anyway by the dummy system. While, again, he isn't at fault for this, he still can't help but feeling guilty since he was inside the Eva at that moment, in his mind it is as if his own body moved by itself and almost killed his friend.

Now, I will argue that the introduction of Kaworu Nagisa in the TV series had no other purpose but to make Shinji take the last step towards the bottom of his cruel role.
In the end Shinji willingly kills a friend with his own hands.

Kaworu Nagisa just pops up so suddenly and suddenly gets killed. If there was one thing that I looked at favorably in Rebuild was the fact that Kaworu gets introduced early in the story. But then, they removed what was his very reason to exist in the story to begin with.

Of course the subversion of the hero trope still remains, since Shinji still destroys the world instead of saving it. But there was that middle step in the anime that was completely removed in this movie. Apparently Anno didn't want Shinji to kill his friend directly with his own hands anymore.

Instead he almost causes a mass extinction event for the second time.

[desrtsku]

Originally Posted by Tempester

Well, this thing was completely awful, devoid of sense or clarity, and detached (in both plot and mood) from the previous two movies to the point that it doesn't even feel like a proper sequel.

Now you know what it is to feels like to be Shinji.

You : "Otou-san! Otou-san! What's going on!? Otou-san!"
Anno : "You will watch this movie. That's all."
You : "Otou-san! Otou-san! Please explain to me! Otou-san!"

*you watch the movie, your mind is fucked*
*Anno gets shittons of money*
Anno : "everything is going according to plan."

*Kaworu talks to you about the 3rd impact movie*
Kaworu : "It's your fault, You-kun. You are the one who watched it."
You : "No it's not my fault! I just wanted to see Ayanami! I wanted to see muh Evangelion!"

*Kaworu is trying console you*
You : "Kaworu-kun! What should I do to understand wth is going on?"
Kaworu : "There's a 4th impact movie, You-kun. I'm sure they'll partly cover the timeskip before the 3rd movie with it. If it doesn't work, then get back to the beginning and rematch them again, while trying to read in-between the line. And do that over and over again until you're satisfied"
You : "why? watching a good 3rd movie with you should have been enough! That's not even muh real Ayanami! Not muh real Evangelion!"

*conversation with Fuyutsuki*
Fuyutsuki : "you will lose after 45 turns!"
You : "tch"

*watch the movie with kaworu*
You : "Kaworu-kun let's buy two tickets to watch the 4th movie"
Kaworu : "No, You-kun stop. There's something weird. Those tickets ... they ... they look like each other."
You : "Kaworu-kun! What are you saying? You're the one who told me to watch this movie with you!"

*Asuka tries to stop you*
Asuka : "baka-you! Don't buy those tickets!"
You : "don't try to stop me Asuka! With those tickets I can go back before the 3rd impact movie! I can save Ayanami! I can save Evangelion!"
Asuka : "You really are a BAKA! no a GAKI! baka you!"

*watch the movie*
*Kaworu-kun wet his pants after 45 minutes, as the first part of the movie ends*
*you are shocked to death*
*it's all your fault*
Asuka : "you didn't try to save me when I wet my pants last time"
You : "..."
Asuka : "gaki-you, let's go to the toilet!"

*you go to the toilet with Asuka, Rei black follows you*

THE END.

[hai_san]

I don't care if it is all about the money... the TV serie ending (and also the previuos movies ending) left tons of question and was one of the most controversial anime ending ever if not THE most... there were endless debates about it.

I for myself apreciate all the new information about EVA even if the are moneymaking/sucking Movies (remakes/rebuild). Anno did make a great masterpiece with EVA even if we are made addicted to it... at least they are far better than e.g endless serialization of Call of Duty games... which entertainment is about 10h... but never again touch it. With Eva you can rage endless discussion about like or dislike

[Solafighter]

^@desrtsku,

Well done.