[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[Von Himmel]

Originally Posted by Kitsu

Spoiler:

What? Never...that girl will just be an illusion representing that rose

My main concern is that, when the girl appeared, Beato would use it to her advantage and start saying that the 18 person exist

Spoiler:

That she's "owned" by Maria? (That sounded weird, I know) since Maria clearly states "Maria's rose! Uu~" So if she were the rose, she would more likely be like Sakutaro or furniture.

MARIA's magic gotten stronger o.o;

[Kitsu]

But Flyvedelta, Beato sould have done this since Ronove, Virgilia , gaap etc.

[confused_kitsune]

The first thing I thought of when seeing the hand in the portrait was this. =P

Concerning the girl - random and baseless speculations:

1. She is Nanjo's sick granddaughter - thus all the talk about the fever.
2. Since Kanon is the only servant without a magical persona so far, she is Kanon's alter ego. xD And yes, that would mean Kanon is a girl (which would be in favor of Kanon=Shannon).

On a more serious tone.
What if the first answer arc is a recreation of ep 1's gameboard with a twist? And by recreation I mean same victims for most twilights, but with a somewhat different culprit/means of killing. Either a new character is introduced - which wouldn't contradict the red text if the red text refers only to the games so far; or a different event occurs. Remember Natsuhi's scorpion charm? If we interpret this from an anti-fantasy POV, the culprit wanted to imitate a witch, and thus avoided making Natsuhi a victim. What if this doesn't happen anymore?

[Bern-chan]

If she was Maria's creation she'd have red eyes. Don't let the anime's failure to conform make you forget that there's a pattern with the eye colours. She's almost certainly a representation of someone/something.

[MeoTwister5]

Originally Posted by confused_kitsune

The first thing I thought of when seeing the hand in the portrait was this. =P

Concerning the girl - random and baseless speculations:

1. She is Nanjo's sick granddaughter - thus all the talk about the fever.
2. Since Kanon is the only servant without a magical persona so far, she is Kanon's alter ego. xD And yes, that would mean Kanon is a girl (which would be in favor of Kanon=Shannon).

On a more serious tone.
What if the first answer arc is a recreation of ep 1's gameboard with a twist? And by recreation I mean same victims for most twilights, but with a somewhat different culprit/means of killing. Either a new character is introduced - which wouldn't contradict the red text if the red text refers only to the games so far; or a different event occurs. Remember Natsuhi's scorpion charm? If we interpret this from an anti-fantasy POV, the culprit wanted to imitate a witch, and thus avoided making Natsuhi a victim. What if this doesn't happen anymore?

Heh. Marat. If that was the case, there's a high likelihood that that was Kinzo's hand.

--------

As for me, it's more like a conservation of mass. Say we do get an new piece revealed that was actually part of the game but not revealed to MetaBattler in the previous games. Remember however that if the red assertion of there are no more than 17 people on the island is a universal truth for all games then if falls down to either:

1. A certain person is assuming the identities of 2 people.
2. A certain person does not really exist but is somehow projected.
3. A person like Kinzo is already dead.

IMO 1 and 3 are more likely, but I'm leaning more on number 3.

[Jan-Poo]

There isn't really any proof that the color of the eyes has some meaning.
I don't believe in the theory that any color different than black = magic entity. And no one has ever provided a good explanation about the difference between blue and red eyes. It's not like red eyes are only limited to Maria's creations.

[confused_kitsune]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

1. A certain person is assuming the identities of 2 people.
2. A certain person does not really exist but is somehow projected.
3. A person like Kinzo is already dead.

IMO 1 and 3 are more likely, but I'm leaning more on number 3.

I don't think Ryukishi would use the same trick twice; that makes number 1 much more plausible. And we're unfortunately still back to Kanon=Shannon, since that's the most probable.

But isn't there any other way to reduce the number of people? I know it's been said before that underground Rokkenjima is still counted as Rokkenjima. But what if someone is, let's say, in a boat anchored at the port; would that person count as being part of the people on the island?

Edit: Oh, and I remember I read somewhere that Battler is actually a projection of Maria's imagination, but c'mon...

[Kitsu]

MeoTwister, you are jumping to conclusions again...there are way more possibilites like I already explained in this post
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=128

There so many possibilities

Like I said! Don't jump to conclusions now! And the Kanon=shannon theory has still way to much flaws

[Bern-chan]

No, it's limited to hers and the Stakes, who are similar to the Siestas. Oh and Zombie Kanon, well there goes my reasoning...

I still think that eye colour other than black means that they're not "human" though.

[MeoTwister5]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

There isn't really any proof that the color of the eyes has some meaning.
I don't believe in the theory that any color different than black = magic entity. And no one has ever provided a good explanation about the difference between blue and red eyes. It's not like red eyes are only limited to Maria's creations.

Well from a purely biological perspective blue is obviously a trademark color for people of European descent, and this immediately sets out to differentiate Beatrice as a person of probably Caucasian descent as compared to the Japanese Ushiromiyas.

Red eyes are said to be seen in some people with albinism under certain light conditions. Red eyes as a default pigmentation HAVE been observed in a very few number of people and is said to be an unknown genetic anomaly.

Based on that, it's just quite probable that red eyes are only there to highlight the special cases of witch Maria's creations.

[Jan-Poo]

Contrary to common belief Maria's eyes are not black, they are dark blue. And I mean in her regular form. In her witch form the color is the same.

Young Eva's eyes are blue even before becoming a witch.

Goldsmith eyes are still black

The red does seem to be limited to "furniture" associated with inanimate objects, however the stakes are not Maria's creation, and Kanon seems an exception.

[Yami Arisu]

I like to support that eyecolour thesis. You can practically sum it up with: Witches and Demons (such as Gaap) have blue eyes and furniture-like being / creation of witches have red eyes.
That wouldn't really clash with Zombie Kanon, if you say that wasn't the Kanon we use to know. And for Young Eva, she just reflects the Witch Eva for us, an alter ego. So, I don't think there's a real problem with that?

But yeah, Goldsmith kinda ruins that thing anyway.

[Volcanic]

Well, first post here and I figured I should put my theory up. It's a bit random and probably won't work, but I wanted to put it out.

Spoiler for Girl X:

Okay, as everyone has taken note of, this girl looks a heck of a lot like Bern. So let's think for a bit; maybe she's some form of Bern? So far, all of the paintings have been of Beatrices...Bern-Beatrice?

Okay, I know it's a but farfetched and probably isn't true, but possibly somehow Bern makes herself a piece and solves the Epitaph? She's already a witch, but remember, she hates being bored and has done slightly sadist things for her own amusement.

Plus if this "One Portrait every two Episodes" thing continues, maybe for 7 we'll get Lamda-Beatrice! |3 -smacked-

I'm really liking Mercurius' theory though. It makes a whole lot of sense.

[Bern-chan]

Originally Posted by confused_kitsune

But isn't there any other way to reduce the number of people? I know it's been said before that underground Rokkenjima is still counted as Rokkenjima. But what if someone is, let's say, in a boat anchored at the port; would that person count as being part of the people on the island?

But why would they do something like that? They don't know the rules of the game so they'd have no reason to sit in a boat in a typhoon just to escape the person count. However underground, if it hadn't been disproved, would make sense because it's a natural place to hide, not to mention there's an underground tunnel. Maybe, just maybe theres a little chasm between Kuwadorian and the Island as we know it, technically making them two different islands or something, just guessing. :P

Also, Gretel/Ange-Beatrice's eyes are black. I did notice Maria's eyes, but I thought it was just my imagination. Maybe she's supposed to be somewhere in between supernatural and human?

[Kitsu]

What Ange has dark blue eyes. Almost violett.

[Jan-Poo]

well she is a witch apprentice XD

Anyway in my personal opinion eye colors have more of a symbolic meaning. I don't think they are associated with a particular category. For example Bern and Lambda have an unique eye color, however they are supposed to be both witches in its true sense. If it was category based they'd have the same eye color.

What Ange has dark blue eyes. Almost violett.

that's right, I missed that...

[MeoTwister5]

Lol 19 people reading this thread.

Anyway I'm with Jan-poo on this. It's far more likely that eye color has more of a symbolic meaning probably tied to their individual personalities and/or abilities than anything else.

[Kitsu]

50 people you mean MeoTwister

Well, I think Ryukishi jsut colored the eyes of some of the character to messn with us and make them special/stranger

[Yami Arisu]

Well, actually you can take out 34 and Bernkastel, because they don't really belong to the game world (yet?). They are more like standing outside and trying to meddle a little. As mentioned in the game they came from another worlds. At least that's my explanation why their eyecolour don't fit the pattern.

[confused_kitsune]

Originally Posted by Bern-chan

But why would they do something like that? They don't know the rules of the game so they'd have no reason to sit in a boat in a typhoon just to escape the person count.

Of course not; but there could always be a scenarios like this: X person is in the boat for various reasons, Y person from the island dies, then X person steps on the island. Technically, there are 17 people on the island, but there is one more than in the previous games.