2013-04-22, 08:09 | Link #461 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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I imagine that there was absolute chaos by then. Nobody was even remotely prepared to the fall of Wall Maria and the area included in it is absolutely huge, so huge that the Titan themselves must have taken days before occupying it all. With this scenario it isn't hard to imagine that the refugees retreated to wall Rose in a very disorderly fashion, coming not just from one gate but from all the four of them. I can also assume that most of the "late arrivals" were people who were warned about the titans late (such as the village Berthold and Reiner claim to come from) but had horses to still be able to escape. Berthold and Reiner could have used horses and mixed themselves with those refugees. The way Berthold managed to get outside Wall Maria is however very difficult to explain. The best guess I can take is that Berthold and Reiner first went to Shiganshina. From there Berthold somehow managed to climb on the top of the wall without being noticed. This is the hardest part though, how did he manage that? I don't know if there are stairs to climb up there, it would make sense if there are, but I don't remember seeing any. Anyway from there it was easy. Berthold just had to throw himself and transform before reaching the ground. The colossal Titan quickly vanished soon after destroying the gate. I imagine that he walked inside the wall from the hole he had just created. the thick smoke was probably enough to conceal him, and most people were likely running away in terror. A risky move, but not so much if Reiner was there to protect him in case some titan was going to follow him rather than some other human. It is possible that Berthold had already joined the refugees before Reiner destroyed the second gate, or he could have been inside Reiner's mouth (the anime seems to deny that though). Oh, and there is also the possibility that Berthold and Reiner come from some human settlement outside the walls, which it is hinted to exist. In that case Reiner probably brought Berthold near the wall. Reiner doesn't look much different from a regular titan so nobody was alarmed when he approached. I'm just guessing but there are a few viable options. Hopefully the manga will give us a more detailed explanation on this issue.
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2013-04-22, 08:34 | Link #462 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Germany
Age: 34
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Thanks for clearing that up! Quote:
I also hope we get more explanations about that. I'm wondering about other things, too, though. First: I wonder if Shiganshina only was the target because "the main character was there" or if there was another reason behind it. Like, what if the MC would've been somewhere else, would Berthold still attack Shiganshina because for some (unknown) reasons? Second: There're always 4 cities like Shiganshina at each wall (to be the "bait" for titans), right? Shiganshina had to be evacuated because the gate got destroyed and of course there're titans between Wall Maria and Wall Rose, but why would the other three "bait" cities flee inside Wall Rose? Because they would've been cut off entirely of everyone else inside Wall Rose? Since they sacrificed around 250.000 people anyway, they could've just stayed in their respective cities (apart from people of Shiganshina of course) and I guess they would've had more chances to survive |
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2013-04-22, 10:04 | Link #463 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2013
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However that beg another question: assuming those 3 are truly from the same village, why being so honest when filling out papers? Are they making it easy for the squad leaders to sniff out the traitors? Anyway, back to what you ask in the previous post, is there any army that doesn't keep a record of its soldiers, and a spec-op squad in this case that is? Mutiny aside, they of course have to send the remains of any KIA soldier back to the family right? It was made clear in the manga that collecting and identifying anyone who were lost in battles is also an important task. |
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2013-04-22, 10:21 | Link #464 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
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and since they don't know about human who can become titan or that there is still some human who live outside the wall == they don't need to ask any more questions from their point of view = the only human that exist are those who live inside the wall. == so they believe that every single human is their ally till human titan show up ( that why they was so confuse when Eren become titan, is he ally? or enemy? he is titan but human ) Last edited by Gundamx; 2013-04-22 at 11:26. |
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2013-04-22, 10:35 | Link #465 | ||
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Anyway... yeah if they planned to eliminate the whole wall Maria it didn't really matter from where to initiate their attack. Shiganshina would have become titan territory anyway. It is doubtful that Eren was their objective already back then, and it is hinted he wasn't, given by what Reiner said just before revealing his true nature. Quote:
Second: As soon as news of what happened on Shiganshina reached them they probably all panicked and decided to retreat asap. They probably imagined that their cities would fall as well and that the military would never bother defending the gates of a wall that had already fallen. In fact it is very likely that the military already present on those places were given instructions to retreat to wall Rose to bolster its defense. We have seen how selfish humans are in this world, they most likely prioritized wall Rose over everything else. And it's not like it was a wrong decision given the situation.
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2013-04-22, 11:37 | Link #466 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
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Anyway I already admitted it was wrong to assume Berthold and Reiner didn't tell the higherups their origin and they did fill in where they came from in the documents (or else how could Hanji's subordinates found their family registers?) so discussing this matter any further is kinda unnecessary. |
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2013-04-22, 12:41 | Link #467 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Germany
Age: 34
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Thanks again for clearing something up I had in mind, sorry to bother you with that About Eren, though it's something from recent chapter: I hope that Berthold gets to catch Eren and he'll be brought to the village Rainer talked about. Maybe we get to know a bit more about their motives and all since Annie shut herself up |
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2013-04-22, 14:17 | Link #468 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Eren is just being Eren, Mikasa is just being Mikasa. After all they are 15 years old, but if it was me, I would have tried to talk to Reiner and Berthold, even if it turns out they are awful monsters (which is probably not the case) there isn't much to gain from fighting them now that it was made clear there are other titans like them.
Gathering intelligence should be a priority.
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2013-04-22, 16:48 | Link #469 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
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2013-04-22, 18:41 | Link #471 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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We don't know if they lied about the village they come from, but if they did, either they made sure there was no survivor from there that could testify they never met them before, or they took the risk.
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2013-04-23, 03:22 | Link #473 |
Swordy Turkey
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Where turkeys can actually fly
Age: 30
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Unrelated to the story, but I'm having a fangasm for the author's research.
Annie's moves look straight out of Pankration, aka Ancient Greek MMA and the author certainly knows what she's talking about for plate armour. |
2013-04-24, 17:40 | Link #474 |
Gamyūsa
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Montreal
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ive only read up to vol4 though ive already found out this is one of the most brutal series ive read so far. Elfen Lied and Berserk are similar though EL is a bit more cold hearted. i wasnt too prepared to read/see characters seen in realistic terms or being killed so easily. it still shocks me a bit but im getting used to it and have become a bit reluctant to get attached to any particular character as they can die any time. i like the setting of the whole series though i dont think id much like to live in such a world myself.
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2013-04-24, 22:02 | Link #475 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
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I'm a bit late to the party but I finally caught up to the manga after watching the anime (I got impatient XD), for some weird reason being spoiled for this series doesn't really feel so bad because the author has barely told us anything about all the important questions (i.e. Origins of the wall, what exactly are the titans, among others).
The author is also really good at keeping this constant feeling of desperation throughout the entire story with the cast more than willing to gamble humanity's survival on plans that rely on things that may backfire on them horribly (i.e. the plan to take back Trost with Eren's Titan form) Now, were there any hints to what actually happened during the following incidents: 1. What exactly happened at Connie's hometown? 2. Who was that second person Bertholdt swallowed? 3. Are there any clues as to who gave the people who could turn into Titans their abilities? P.S. I'm really hoping Historia/Christa can finally give us all some answers, the plot is so thick you could cut it with a knife right now. |
2013-04-24, 22:48 | Link #476 |
勇者
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tesla Leicht Institute
Age: 34
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1. It is heavily implied that people of Connie's village turned to Titan, at least his mother.
2. Don't remember, they don't seem to tell who it is for some reason. But probably there are some clues 3. Not really, but I believe Ymir was got the power before Bertholdt and Reiner, so I am guessing someone inside the wall rather than outside.
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2013-04-25, 08:03 | Link #477 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Let's make a list of all the named characters that are supposed to be there at the time Berthold grabs Ymir:
Historia/Christa Connie Hanji Eren Armin Mikasa Hannes Named characters that we see after the mysterious man was eaten: Historia/Christa Connie Hanji Eren Armin Mikasa Unless I'm missing someone it's either an unnamed character or Hannes.
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2013-04-25, 13:21 | Link #479 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
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Were there only Scouting Legion members left on the wall before Bertholdt put Ymir and that other person in his mouth? If they were all Scouting Legion members we could narrow down the list to that and narrow it down even further if the only Scouting Legion members present were part of Hanji's team (besides Eren, Historia, Mikasa, Connie, and Armin of course).
When you think about it, it would make sense that there could be a traitor in Hanji's research group, such a person would be in a perfect position to provide information for either Annie, Reiner, or Bertholdt. Last edited by Raviel; 2013-04-25 at 14:03. |
2013-04-25, 13:21 | Link #480 |
ANEGO Worshiper
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: By the vending machine, drinking tea.
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Hmmm...what if the Titans are always smiling because the people piloting them on in dream like states like Eren was, thus happy but not knowing what horrible deeds they are doing. If I remember correctly the only Titans no smiling all the time are human-titans that have full control over their titan forms.
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