Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 20 Discussion / Poll

[Neofio3]

Originally Posted by Ttak

Ok, so judging by the preview of episode 21

Spoiler for next episode, related with ange's flashback on this episode:

Ange's bullying will be shown at its full extense, so the one in this episode was just a flashback for it

I would have preferred they kept the flashback out and kept the line "but you threw that friend away", with Mammon acting a bit pissed.

Just personal preference perhaps, but it would have added a bit of characterization to the (as of now) most important stake.

[urusai]

Nah, it'd probably confuse viewers because TIME PARADOX

[lovelysan]

This episode made me think of something... Maybe it's not the letters/stories in the bottles that are important, but the bottles themselves. Battler WAS drinking quite a bit at the end of Arc 2 after all...

[TheForsaken]

Um, then? I don't get your point

[Neofio3]

That Battler, being in all cases the last one alive, drinks himself sloshed then writes down what happened?

What happened in events where he isn't even present, from an omniscient narrator's perspective, no less.

[maximilianjenus]

wow, cool theory, so battler is beatrice?

[TheForsaken]

Exactly.
Because if he can write down everything in detail while being drunk, he must be a witch.
This is something absolutely impossible for human

[Ithekro]

And then sign it Maria Ushiromiya.

[k//eternal]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

And then sign it Maria Ushiromiya.

Just goes to show how drunk he was

[Ithekro]

Of course...how does he write all this down....if Eva shot him?

[Jan-Poo]

Where was he shot exactly? Maybe that's how he became "Maria" !!!!

[maximilianjenus]

One of the basis of the theory is that the person writing the letters has memories of the previous worlds, thus that person can throw the bootles in the sea even before the storm starts. Actually, there is little logic to throwing them after the first twilight, so said person can't know which kakera they will be in.

[EDIT]

oh, and the person who writes the letters is beatrice, because as seen in ange's investigation, the writing of the letters is teh same as the writing done by beatrice in the mariage sorcerie contract.

[Dawnbringerz]

Originally Posted by maximilianjenus

One of the basis of the theory is that the person writing the letters has memories of the previous worlds, thus that person can throw the bootles in the sea even before the storm starts. Actually, there is little logic to throwing them after the first twilight, so said person can't know which kakera they will be in.

[EDIT]

oh, and the person who writes the letters is beatrice, because as seen in ange's investigation, the writing of the letters is teh same as the writing done by beatrice in the mariage sorcerie contract.

If we look at the same handwriting thing from another point of view,

We can also infer that it really is Maria who wrote those letters. Not our uu uu Maria, but more like the Maria who became a witch and disguised herself as Beato Beatrice. (Beato = Maria all along)

i.e. Everything in Umineko is all but Maria'a doing to bring her family back.

[blitz1/2]

What kind of Lambda and Ange confrontation was that?!!! If that was it, then they BUTCHERED another scene. (and lacking Mirage Coordinator to boot)

[Arbane the Terrible]

Originally Posted by Dawnbringerz

If we look at the same handwriting thing from another point of view,

We can also infer that it really is Maria who wrote those letters. Not our uu uu Maria, but more like the Maria who became a witch and disguised herself as Beato Beatrice. (Beato = Maria all along)

i.e. Everything in Umineko is all but Maria'a doing to bring her family back.

That would hold up better if it wasn't "Beatrice" who was killing them all in the first place. And I'm guessing Beatrice's note in the diary didn't match the rest of Maria's handwriting.

[Workworkwork]

Originally Posted by blitz1/2

What kind of Lambda and Ange confrontation was that?!!! If that was it, then they BUTCHERED another scene. (and lacking Mirage Coordinator to boot)

There IS one last time they can use it. Maybe they're saving it for that scene?

[chounokoe]

Originally Posted by maximilianjenus

One of the basis of the theory is that the person writing the letters has memories of the previous worlds, thus that person can throw the bootles in the sea even before the storm starts. Actually, there is little logic to throwing them after the first twilight, so said person can't know which kakera they will be in.

Still I don't like the 'memories kept' theory, because I would find it a too heavy Higurashi left-over if it is not explained well enough...this way around it would be the same as the cry for help in Higurashi.
I prefer the theory that whoever throws those letters in the ocean has several possible outcomes planed and throws a letter in for every possible combination of killings...we don't know if those 2 letters were the only one's that were thrown into the ocean from Rokkenjima.
In the end we only know that the letter describes the killings and a plead for help, if it is planned out beforehand it's not a big task to make it seem like it follows one of the letters.

Originally Posted by Workworkwork

There IS one last time they can use it. Maybe they're saving it for that scene?

Well actually there are still 2 instances they can use it and I think they will in one of them (the one where there is less talk).

[Neofio3]

Originally Posted by chounokoe

Still I don't like the 'memories kept' theory, because I would find it a too heavy Higurashi left-over if it is not explained well enough...this way around it would be the same as the cry for help in Higurashi.
I prefer the theory that whoever throws those letters in the ocean has several possible outcomes planed and throws a letter in for every possible combination of killings...we don't know if those 2 letters were the only one's that were thrown into the ocean from Rokkenjima.
In the end we only know that the letter describes the killings and a plead for help, if it is planned out beforehand it's not a big task to make it seem like it follows one of the letters.

Okay... its been bothering me for some time, because there will surely be some sort of plot device at work in Umineko (same as Higurashi's "reset" plot device), but reusing the same plot device would seem contrived and unoriginal.

So instead of a reset where a character plays out events again and again, what about precognition? A character (the story's "Rika" - Special Person A), has the ability to see the future, and writes down multiple versions of future events as he/she sees them take place, including their own murder. She/he would then ask anyone to "find out the truth", the truth about the future, because special person A might not even be sure what they wrote down is actually going to happen, only a sense of dread, or foreboding, or whatever.

This person would feel even more trapped than Rika in Higurashi. Unlike Rika, Special Person A would have absolutely no say in his/her fate, and wouldn't even be sure what they wrote down would correspond to reality. They would only know when the proverbial shit hits the fan (long after the bottles have been sent out).

[Shamisen]

Originally Posted by TheForsaken

Exactly.
Because if he can write down everything in detail while being drunk, he must be a witch.
This is something absolutely impossible for human

A lot of famous writers are drunk while writing. Just look at Hemmingway.

[Ithekro]

So far the closest you have to Special Person A is either Battler (unlikely) and Beatrice...who is suppose to not exist.