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Patchwork Chimera · 2012-09-16, 18:57

I meant little battler. He was probably still in the age of 'girls are yucky' and it takes some kind of girl to make a 10 year old start bragging and going shakespeare on them. Or that's what I think. I have a hard time imagining little battler talking about big boobs.
On the other hand, he was always a pervert...

GabrieliosP · 2012-09-16, 19:04

12 years old. That's the age where puberty starts kicking in and it makes sense for Battler to start showing off to Yasu.

Patchwork Chimera · 2012-09-16, 19:42

Ah, of course, sorry. Made a mistake in there. Well, starts making sense. But still is too early. no? A twelve year old saying something about how big his girlfriend's boobs have to be.
Or maybe it's allright since he's an Ushiromiya. Pervertedness is hereditary... except for Krauss, but he's an idiot XD

GabrieliosP · 2012-09-16, 19:49

There was a boy my class when I was around that age... let's just say everyone's parents didn't want their childs to be friends with him. All he talked about was girls and sex.

So yeah, it's not impossible for 12-year old Battler to be like that.

Patchwork Chimera · 2012-09-16, 19:58

W-Woh. Battler being compared a lot to kinzo takes a whole new meaning! And him not being as flashy... my god, cannot unsee...
Anyway, I recently read some traslation to B. Battler's lines in OMK (You posted about it right?) and the part about -letting your body get cold because I can't love- or -Now your body is MINE- really were freaky.

Jan-Poo · 2012-09-16, 20:05

From the scene of EP7 it is shown that Yasu formed her new image of Beatrice based on what Battler told her about his ideal girlfriend.

So that logically should have happened in 1980.

GoldenLand · 2012-09-17, 00:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Someone make a photoshop of the Goldsmith face on a meido sprite with the caption "I cannot be loved!"

AuraTwilight · 2012-09-17, 04:21

GoldenLand, I love you. I owe you one Wish that is within my power to grant ye.

Wanderer · 2012-09-17, 08:04

Next installment. It's a big one. It's hard to tell since I'm cross-referencing a couple incomplete sources for this, but I'm probably more than halfway done.

The text relies a lot on cues in the characters' speech patterns that can't be translated in order to convey who is speaking, so sometimes I will have a character's name in parentheses following a line when context isn't enough.

Spoiler for First Twilight and beyond:

Spoiler for Thoughts:

Drifloon · 2012-09-17, 10:23

That's all pretty interesting. I still don't think that the mutilated corpses are really necessary, though...Everyone in EP3 was killed in pretty mundane ways, but I don't think it was any less effective in conveying the Illusion of the Witch. Heck, it might even have been better to go for a more subtle approach. Yasu really isn't a very refined witch, is she? Pukukuku.

Jan-Poo · 2012-09-17, 11:25

At any rate the first twilight of EP2 cannot be simply explained by the necessity of hiding wounds. Beatrice has just been purposely creative. Naturally they were all dead already so it's not like she hurt them or anything, but certainly she didn't really have any respect for the dead.

The sentence that I found most relevant is this:

Quote:

"Don't hate me. You guys didn't do anything wrong. If you're gonna hate, hate that guy who trashed his promise for 6 long years."

This seems to confirm what I was arguing some time ago regarding the fact that whatever wrong they might have done to Yasu, that didn't count as a factor in being chosen as victims.

It really seems that Yasu doesn't really care about them, anyone would be fine, she just needs corpses.

However the fact that she claims through Flauros that Battler is to be hated seems to contradict the claim that she didn't perform the serial murder as a form of vengeance.
Because... let's be serious... nobody had any reason to hate Battler except herself. If she thinks that what Battler has done was reason enough to hate him, it's because she hated him.
Maybe the part of her that still loved him didn't allow her to realize or admit her own hate. But frankly hating someone that you once loved is pretty common.

When you consider the apparent fact that she resented Battler for what he's done 6 years before, it's really hard to accept that what she has done had absolutely nothing to do with vengeance, expecially because it doesn't really make sense elseway.
What exactly was she trying to achieve by massacring Battler's family in those horrible ways? If it was just to make him understand her feelings and making him remembering his sin, there were plenty of other less cruel and drastic options.

Maybe vengeance wasn't her primary purpose, but hell, let's be honest here, she wanted Battler to suffer.

Patchwork Chimera · 2012-09-17, 11:45

I find really curious how, if this is the general way the murders were done, in-game people tends to be sympathetic towards Yasu. Maybe in Prime it didn't happen that way. Maybe she went back, decided not to kill anyone or something like that. Still, holly shit. This are her toughts and desires, Ladies & Gents.

But then, even Our Confessions is full of fantasy scenes, just in a different perspective called OOC.

If we try to link it to the perception of every META that played the gameboard that went all 'find the heart~, don't exclusively blame Beato~', this scenarios have so many wrongs in them.

So what, OurConf. is a work witout love? In other words a B. Battler scenario? Ryuukishi tends to go to the extremes so often is funny: or you see the culprit as a tragic hero who breaks under the world's unfairness, or the culprit is a psycothic bastard that gets the giggles dismembering pepole.

Still, this pretty much writes down the general theories that go around the net to explain the gameboards (and the most easy to reach): namely, that Yasu with the help of the servants reunited all the siblings to announce herself as the Head and then went beast on them, dishonored their bodies and worked in the pretty first twilight that tends to be so shocking. That the accomplices were the ones leaving letters when nobody was looking and that Yasu had more ways to kill them that the winchesters.

I wonder what went wrong in Rokken Prime... the first twilight seems so full of posibilities to fail, least some of them are faking it.

Captain Bluebeard · 2012-09-17, 11:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

This seems to confirm what I was arguing some time ago regarding the fact that whatever wrong they might have done to Yasu, that didn't count as a factor in being chosen as victims.

I think that's a given from the start. A serial murderer can't have a grudge against every single one of their victims individually.

Quote:

What exactly was she trying to achieve by massacring Battler's family in those horrible ways? If it was just to make him understand her feelings and making him remembering his sin, there were plenty of other less cruel and drastic options.

Well, she'd go nuts over the corpses for the purposes of the game perhaps(?).... after all, it's a black magic ceremony.

Quote:

Maybe vengeance wasn't her primary purpose, but hell, let's be honest here, she wanted Battler to suffer.

"Boyfriend forgot his pony.... Let's massacre all his family in the most gruesome way imaginable!"

(Think I read that in some meme or something... It really fits here, right?)

Drifloon · 2012-09-17, 13:30

Well, I think that the "If you're gonna hate, hate the guy who trashed his promise" line is more saying that the victims shouldn't blame Beatrice for their deaths, but Battler for forcing her to do it.

...Sure, that is a screwed up way of thinking, but it really isn't anything new. Clair said in EP7 that she always found it disagreeable that Battler wouldn't realise that the crime was his fault. It seriously seems like she thinks that she isn't to blame at all, and that she had literally no choice after what Battler did to her. That's actually the vibe I get throughout a lot of EP7.

Also, does anyone find it odd how the fantasy scene is so self-contradictory here? I mean, you'd think that Flauros would say to blame Kinzo for starting the ceremony, since that is what the fantasy version of the story is supposed to be. And also, how Flauros mentions Krauss and Natsuhi being absent, but then they're retconned into being present?

AuraTwilight · 2012-09-17, 14:48

I don't think Yasu is really resenting Battler here so much as shifting blame from herself. Something she's done her whole life regarding absolutely everything.

That being said I still refuse to believe she did it.

UsagiTenpura · 2012-09-17, 16:51

Thought of something, which I haven't seen explored personally.
Kinzo challenged everyone with the epitaph riddle because he learned he was about to die.
Looking for an alternative to genital problems concerning Yasu's complex, couldn't it be that?
Yasu learned she was about to die, making her feel like she was not allowed to love (as she would never grow up to fulfill it).
Her actions related to the epitaph might parallel Kinzo's as well. Whoever solved the epitaph = Beatrice (to Kinzo).
Is Yasu seeking a "Battler" or something in the same process? Is it somehow possible what Yasu is looking for is redemption before her death?

Arc 6 even has Battler seemingly fulfilling every wish of Beatrice (meta people) yet she still dies. Rest in peace? Could that be her goal?

Patchwork Chimera · 2012-09-17, 17:01

That's... actually not that bad. If the wounds left in her body by being trown from a cliff were internal and her organs were failing, not only her uterus, she'd die before she could properly begin her life as a wife or boyfriend or whatever. Then all her despair and devil-may-care atitude might be less weird: it's not extrange that people with a death sentence by illness does crazy things. Actually equal or more crazy than blowing up an island.
It's sounds good and despairing enough...

On a side note: I realized that Battler had resolved the part about following the sweetfish river and searching for a place with certain kanji in it's name in EP1. The cousins even sugested looking a map. Yes, they were using Odawara and not the right 'river' (choosing the right thing is hard for those who don't know about taiwan). Cool thing is that Battler alone came with the steps to apply to the real thing in little time lazyng in the beach, and all the other cousins had to think together to reach it.
C'mon, Battler. You are always at least mildly competent in gameboard, but in Meta you're a small bomb failure. Tsk, tsk.

Wanderer · 2012-09-17, 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

The sentence that I found most relevant is this:

Actually, at first I thought it was Flauros speaking, but looking at it again I'm not really sure whose line it is between Flauros and Beatrice. It bridges the two different versions of the scene (magical, mundane) and makes sense in the context of both. It's probably meant to segue the two perspectives together. Anyway, the original line is:

「悪く思うな。そなたらに罪はない。恨むなら、６年もの長きにわたり、約束を反故にしたあの男を恨むのだな。」

Flauros likes to add だぜぃっ to the end of her sentences, so it's actually probably more like Beatrice.

Anyway, I edited it to make the speech patterns a bit more neutral.

Jan-Poo · 2012-09-17, 21:16

Ah well I was assuming it was still Beatrice talking through Flauros anyway, but reading that sentence in Japanese I think it's almost certainly Beatrice directly. That "sonatara" isn't something that anyone else would say.

Renall · 2012-09-18, 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patchwork Chimera

I find really curious how, if this is the general way the murders were done, in-game people tends to be sympathetic towards Yasu. Maybe in Prime it didn't happen that way. Maybe she went back, decided not to kill anyone or something like that. Still, holly shit. This are her toughts and desires, Ladies & Gents.

But then, even Our Confessions is full of fantasy scenes, just in a different perspective called OOC.

The impression I've gotten from Chiru and OC is not a positive one of the person behind Beatrice. Someone who demands everyone understand her heart but has no empathy for others. Someone who thinks she's suffering but ignores the suffering of others (the lack of Genji characterization could well be because Yasu never once cared why Genji would want to help her, despite him doing a lot for her according to Requiem). Someone who sees other people as so greedy they'd agree to the murder of their families and friends but unable to see the irony in how selfish her own desires are. Someone willing to dishonor the memory of the dead while hiding her own involvement and existence.

And, quite possibly, someone so self-absorbed as to hurt other people and then daydream that those people would forgive her for her self-desribed "noble" motivations. That's awfully twisted.

Yet I don't get the sense that's how I'm supposed to view the character.

2012-09-16, 18:57	Link #30621
Patchwork Chimera Human Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Crime Scene	I meant little battler. He was probably still in the age of 'girls are yucky' and it takes some kind of girl to make a 10 year old start bragging and going shakespeare on them. Or that's what I think. I have a hard time imagining little battler talking about big boobs. On the other hand, he was always a pervert... __________________ ~º~º~º~ Sin importar cuanto busques la respuesta, ésta te aludirá con certeza hasta que estés listo para escucharla.

2012-09-16, 19:04	Link #30622
GabrieliosP 黄金の魔女 Golden Witch Join Date: May 2012 Location: Natal-RN, Brazil Age: 28	12 years old. That's the age where puberty starts kicking in and it makes sense for Battler to start showing off to Yasu. __________________ "Revival of the Golden Witch" and "Dolly's Dreaming Awakening -Cradle Song-" Development Blog "Ougon Musou Kyoku" PT-BR Wiki

2012-09-16, 19:42	Link #30623
Patchwork Chimera Human Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Crime Scene	Ah, of course, sorry. Made a mistake in there. Well, starts making sense. But still is too early. no? A twelve year old saying something about how big his girlfriend's boobs have to be. Or maybe it's allright since he's an Ushiromiya. Pervertedness is hereditary... except for Krauss, but he's an idiot XD __________________ ~º~º~º~ Sin importar cuanto busques la respuesta, ésta te aludirá con certeza hasta que estés listo para escucharla.

2012-09-16, 19:49	Link #30624
GabrieliosP 黄金の魔女 Golden Witch Join Date: May 2012 Location: Natal-RN, Brazil Age: 28	There was a boy my class when I was around that age... let's just say everyone's parents didn't want their childs to be friends with him. All he talked about was girls and sex. So yeah, it's not impossible for 12-year old Battler to be like that. __________________ "Revival of the Golden Witch" and "Dolly's Dreaming Awakening -Cradle Song-" Development Blog "Ougon Musou Kyoku" PT-BR Wiki

2012-09-16, 19:58	Link #30625
Patchwork Chimera Human Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Crime Scene	W-Woh. Battler being compared a lot to kinzo takes a whole new meaning! And him not being as flashy... my god, cannot unsee... Anyway, I recently read some traslation to B. Battler's lines in OMK (You posted about it right?) and the part about -letting your body get cold because I can't love- or -Now your body is MINE- really were freaky. __________________ ~º~º~º~ Sin importar cuanto busques la respuesta, ésta te aludirá con certeza hasta que estés listo para escucharla.

2012-09-16, 20:05	Link #30626
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	From the scene of EP7 it is shown that Yasu formed her new image of Beatrice based on what Battler told her about his ideal girlfriend. So that logically should have happened in 1980. __________________

2012-09-17, 04:21	Link #30628
AuraTwilight The True Culprit Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The Golden Land	GoldenLand, I love you. I owe you one Wish that is within my power to grant ye. __________________ When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531

2012-09-17, 08:04	Link #30629
Wanderer Goat Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Gnawing away at Rokkenjima	Next installment. It's a big one. It's hard to tell since I'm cross-referencing a couple incomplete sources for this, but I'm probably more than halfway done. The text relies a lot on cues in the characters' speech patterns that can't be translated in order to convey who is speaking, so sometimes I will have a character's name in parentheses following a line when context isn't enough. Spoiler for First Twilight and beyond: And finally, the story begins. "In any case, nothing happens if dad doesn't come down." (Rudolf) "You've got that right. We didn't come to speak to our brother. We came to speak to father." (Eva) "..........." Krauss quietly bore all the harsh words of the siblngs. He couldn't do anything extraneous. ...He must behave in accordance with the scenario provided to him by the witch. ...In the scenario, he was to wait until 24:00. Which... was soon to be. Then, they heard the chime of the banquet hall's grandfather clock. It's 24:00. It's time for that witch's scenario... to take motion. 'At 24:00, there will be a knock on the door of the dining hall.' Knock-knock. The door was knocked. "...Who is it?" (Krauss) He meant to say it nonchalantly, but it came out slightly nervous. "...Forgive the intrusion. It's Genji." He is also a person following Beatrice's scenario. "Oh, Genji-san. ...What is it at such an hour?" (Eva) "This is perfect. I'm kinda thirsty. Should we take a little break for now and have some tea?" (Hideyoshi) Genji, after signalling to Krauss with a look, deeply lowered his head to everyone and made the announcement. "...Ladies and gentlemen, the head summons you to his study." Everyone stirred at those words. Eva doubted even the existence of Kinzo... but that very person was summoning everyone to his study. "...Wh ...What could this mean...?" "I... I dunno. ...I've never been able to understood dad's whims." (Krauss) All is going according to scenario. ...Everyone is commanded to the study. And then in front of the study he and Natsuhi specifically will be told to wait...... "Please wait. ...The master and milady are to wait here." In front of the study... Genji made the pronouncement. Natsuhi says nothing, silently casting her eyes at the floor. Seeing this, Eva smiles triumphantly. "Ohhh, what could this be? What on earth could he want to say to us first, without the two of you?" "No idea... I never know what dad is thinking." (Krauss) "Master, it is Genji. I have brought all your relatives." Genji says this through the door after knocking. A farce. Beyond that door lies only a deserted room that has lost its master. "Ladies and gentlemen. ...it is the study of the glorious Ushiromiya family head, Kinzo-sama. I implore you not to make any careless mistakes." "...Genji-san. Dad's in a good mood... right?" (not sure if Rudolf or Krauss) "Indeed. The master is in a very good mood." Both Eva and Rosa were visibly relieved. ...But Krauss and Natsuhi knew. The master Genji spoke of... was a new master. It was that witch. Right now, awaiting them inside the study... was the Golden Witch, Beatrice. The island, the mansion he lived in... was, at some point unbeknownst, granted to the witch of the portrait as its new master. This mansion Krauss had come to believe was his home... had quickly became a very different place for him. With Genji leading, Eva and the other relatives were... swallowed up by the pungantly poison-scented study. Slowly the door closed... and with the heavy sound of the autolock, their existance disappeared. "..............." "...Does this mean... our job is over?" (Natsuhi) "......Well, at least for tonight..." (Krauss) "That woman is ominous. ...She gives me the terrible feeling that she's capable of destroying herself and everyone else if we're careless in dealing with her." "...Yeah, me too. That's why I think we should do exactly what she says. I think... if we didn't just nod our heads to her she would have killed us on the spot." "...All the servants are already that woman's henchmen, too." "Well, no one wants to die. ...Also, they may have the same reward promised to them. ...She's got 20 billion in gold, after all." Suddenly hearing unexpected footsteps, Krauss and Natsuhi went quiet. They looked and saw Kumasawa coming up the stairs. Kumasawa was also one of the witch's henchmen. They can't afford to lower their guard, but still they did view her as someone they could better relate to than Genji. "...Well done. Master's and milady's parts are complete for tonight." "......What is the witch saying to them...?" (Krauss) "Who knows... I don't know how Beatrice-sama thinks." "I see. Both the witch and father truly resemble each other in their whimsicalness." (Krauss) "What... should we do now?" (Natsuhi) "...Tonight you shall return to your rooms and rest. ...Starting tomorrow you are to follow tomorrow's scenario..." "Kumasawa-san. Have you... also been bought out by that witch?" (Krauss) ".........I also value my life, so..." "Is there really a bomb triggered to explode...?" (Krauss) "...It's probably true ...since the local shrine has really been blown up with explosives." "................." "Kumasawa, have you heard what will happen next...?" (Natsuhi) "......All I've heard is that it's a big show meant to surprise a certain person. ...Please let me off at that. ...I've also been threatened with my life if I say anything unnecesarry......" When Kumasawa meekly said this, she lowered her head very deeply. The buyouts from the giant pile of gold and the threat from the bomb. They really have... no way to resist. Is this all just a giant farce? ...Or is it the opening to some ghastly celebration of the of the golden witch's resurrection? Despite the ominous feeling they got from the thunder outside, Krauss and Natsuhi could only head to their respective rooms. But, in their bedrooms were the new scenarios, already delivered. By reading them they knew... tonight's farce will continue... ---------- The 5 invited into the study; Eva, Hideyoshi, Rudolf, Kyrie, and Rosa; stood firmly at attention like children called to ceremony. "...Master, I have brought 5 members of the family." "Good. Thank you, Genji." Everyone was surprised at hearing a female voice. A flash of lightning illuminated a woman's figure for an instant, which... was the very figure of the person whose portrait hung in the reception hall. "Ladies and gentlemen. You are visiting the glorious Ushiromiya family head, Beatrice-sama." So overwelmed by the sight of the witch, they forgot to even close their gaping mouths. Eva was the first to come to her senses. "......Wh......what kind of joke is this? Genji-san, what's the meaning of this?!" "H...hey I'm impressed... she really looks just like the witch of the portrait...... is that dress a custom order...?" (Hideyoshi) "Quiet, please. You are in the presense of the master. Please refrain from such murmuring." Being scolded to earnestly by Genji returned everyone to confusion. No, that's not right. It was because the more familar family head had causually appeared from the darkness. "The day that I return everything to my beloved witch has finally come. Tonight, I have turned over the ring and all the assets of the Ushiromiya family to her." Kinzo made the announcement in boistrously high spirits. Of course, Kinzo never really appeared. To those who already know that Kinzo has left this world, this illusion is nothing more than a farce. Because illusions are... an embleshiment of the result's cause. They are merely a creative production behind known results. The results are... that five people die in the study. And along with their miserable final moments comes its own new production. "Alright! So, there is a reason behind you all being gathered here tonight! Might there be someone who can figure it out? Kukkukku, you won't if I just ask you out of the blue like that... so I'll give you a hint: There's significance behind Krauss and Natsuhi not being called in. Oh, and don't count Genji, since he still has his uses." Suddenly declaring this, Beato had a mischievous smile creep upon her face. Of course there really was no way for any of them to answer such a question. Even Kinzo tilted his head. "...Beatrice. To have prepared a question that even I do not know the answer, is truly something astounding. Why? Why is it that you do not have Krauss and Natsuhi here to celebrate your resurrection?" "You haven't realize it, Kinzo? ... kukkukukukuku. I'll give another hint: It's something that was signalled by the grandfather clock in the entrance hall, just a little while ago. Getting more and more confused, the relatives muttered amongst themselves. They really had no idea what was happening. "Hmpf! To think Kinzo wouldn't realize either! I am disappointed, humans...! Fine, I shall tell you the answer. Let's see... how shall I do it this time?... The Seven Sisters lack manners... the Siesta Sister corp is too much the old stand by... Gaap might be good... but actually... I think it's about time to call in a new guest!" Which new demon shall I call? Opening her grimoire she picks randomly from the 72 noble demons. ...mm, causually flipping through the pages... the number that appears is 64. Who was number 64 again? Rank number 64. Flauros. Flauros. ...Yes, it has a nice ring to it. Let's go with this one. Alright, what kind of character design shall we do... Gapp and Ronove and everyone have an adult-like design, so this time I'd like try the opposite with a more child-like design. A killer with childlike innocence... or something... Maybe it could be expressed through character design. Let's look up more about Flauros. Flauros. Flau-chan. Yes, I like the sound of it. ...What? Has the appearance of a Leopard? ...Has the appearance of a man when taking human form?... Whaaat? A maaaaaan? A cute girl would be so much better. Ammended. Let's make her a cute girl with matching animal ears. Sakutarou had cute ears... something like his... Let's do a sketch. ScribbleScribbleScribble...... Spoiler for Flauros's picture: ...Omission... (I have no source for this part. Maybe it's a good excuse to actually buy the book) "Flauros. It has been a while. ...For you to acknowledge my summons, it means that you are not bound by contract to anyone. I am pleased. I welcome you as my ally." "Rank number 64 of the 72 Noble Demons, Flauros the Blazing, is here!" (Flauros) To human eyes, she probably looked like a girl still in middle school. However, she's one of the 72 Great Noble Demons, Flauros. With her terrible power she lays waste to her summoner's enemies. Her specialty is burning them to ash. Truly a demon among demons. "It was just some random summons but, it seems I got someone interesting. To imagine that my summoner was the great Lady Beatrice! Even though I'm here for business, it looks to be fun!" "Indeed. Once you were contracted to an enemy witch of mine... Your partner was quite a hassle." "Well, had no choice 'cause it was my job. So, what's the new gig?" "I command you to cooperate in my ceremony. The clock has already marked it's beginning! I command you to kill 6 people as sacrifices for the first twilight!!" "Kill six? Got it! Can I kill the 6 of 'em conveniently lined up right here?" "......fu ...fuhhahahahhahhahhahha! So that's what it is! Ah, so I'm also one of the unlucky ones...! Hahahahahahahahahahaha!!" Kinzo finally understood the reason for which everyone was gathered in his study. In Beato's mind, the sacrifices of the first twilight had already been decided. "...Fa...Father... What... is the meaning of this...?" Eva timidly asked. But Kinzo just continued his mad laughter. "You're a bunch of unlucky guys! Sooooo, who shall I eat first!?" Flauros's two hands stretched to the floor. Her appearance was now not so much that of a human's, but of a ferocious leopard's. "Don't hate me. You guys didn't do anything wrong. If you're going to hate someone, hate that guy who trashed his promise for 6 long years." They all starred befuddled. Beato bent down into the sofa's shadow. And when she stood up again, she was holding in each of her two hands one from Kinzo's collection of sawed-off rifles. The relatives could only imagine the sight of her wearing a dress and holding antique guns... to be that of a proper lady holding something like a folding fan. Well, at least they couldn't imagine lead actually gushing from those muzzles. First, in Ushiromiya Kinzo's study shoot Eva, Hideyoshi, Rudolf, Kyrie, and Rosa dead. The door to Kinzo's study is thick, so the sounds of the guns won't be heard easily. Krauss and Natsuhi will already have been guided far enough away from the study by Kumasawa and won't hear the guns firing. The tools necesary for dealing with the corpses will already have been brought to the study. Flauros changes into the form of a giant leopard, and starts by swallowing Kinzo in one gulp. Swallowing him whole serves as an expanation for Kinzo not to leave a corpse. It might be good to leave something like some of cut-off scrap of Kinzo's rope behind in the room. (I dunno what this "rope" is about) Shocked by this, the relatives try to escape the room, but they can't because it's been magically sealed. ...Omission... (I have no source for this part. Maybe it's a good excuse to actually buy the book) To abide by the above scenario, the bodies are distorted. So that bullet holes are not discovered, whole chunks of their bodies are destroyed. Flauros tears into their stomachs, pulls out the entrails and bites them off. This is also carefully reproduced. ...Omission... (I have no source for this part. Maybe it's a good excuse to actually buy the book) Flauros's four legs return to the floor and she moans happily with a stretch, her entire body quivering in delight. Her body slowly glowing red, she burns brightly. "I am rank 64 of of the 72 Noble Demons, Flauros the Blazing!! I eat it all, burn it all, smash it all!! Maaan, I can't wait until it's my turn again!!" Her bright red light turns to white, and suddenly causes a giant explosion. The room splinters, and everything turns white with smoke and dust from the blast. The inside of the study was swallowed up by a torrent of blistering rain... Flaurous's explosion broke a gaping hole in the wall of the study. "My my, you didn't need to be so flashy. I wasn't planning to something like that, since the idea was that it's supposed to be a closed room murder. That kind of unfettered destruction of the wall is intolerable." "Nyahhihihihi! I did somethin' bad! I love destroyin' about as much as I love killin'! And I love incineratin' most of all!!" As she yells Flauros returns to leopord form and, leaving behind flaming footprints, jumps out into the storm-filled sky. From the giant hole in the wall she lands in the middle courtyard, kicking the walls and prancing about until she disappears into the jet black sky. It seems she just can't help herself after being separated from the physical world for so long. "I see. She's the kind that never bores. Kukkukkukku. But still, this is awful." The giant gaping hole, the wreckage and dust, and the storm blowing in all made the study quite a wreck. And of course... the sacrifices with their inards cruely strewn about. "Well, sometimes a bold first twilight like this has its own charm. Kukkukuku, hahahahahahahahahahaha...!!" Then, Krauss and Natsuhi are be brought to the scene and made full witness to everything. So... it would probably be good to get them a bit dusted up. Something like having them do one roll on the floor of the trashed up study should do the trick. So after the murder of the first 6, Beato sneers "aren't you lucky?" at Krauss and Natsuhi who, since the seal has expired, manage flee out the door... or something. After that, Krauss and Natsuhi rush to call the police, but for some reason the call can't get through. The general outline is that they, in a panic, take the servants and rush to the guesthouse. But both Kanon and Shannon can't go together, so this part will have to be done carefully. A simple story would be... Natsuhi and Shannon go on ahead to the guesthouse while Krauss and Kanon went to get guns for self-defense but are a bit late coming back. Shannon enters the servants room with the terrified Kumasawa, slips out through the window, and meets up with Krauss. Then for a while everyone holes up in the guesthouse. The children of the killed parents will probably want to see the crime scene, or start planning revenge, or find some other reason to leave the guesthouse. If they're really persistant, they can go to the study. Once again it will be auto-locked, but it's not a problem since Genji has a key. When they see such a bizairre crime scene with a large hole in the wall, they will certainly accept that it couldn't possibly have been done by humans. It would also be interesting if there were a magic circle at the crime scene that wasn't there before. The magic circle could have been prepared several days earlier. All that's needed is for Krauss and Natsuhi to give false testimony that it wasn't there before. And to make it even more inexplicable, Krauss or Natsuhi will carry an envelope that makes a proclaimation about the crime... and it will be 'discovered' in a closed room situation. This is just an example but, something like having a room that was just confirmed locked with nothing unusual, but then when it's reentered there'll suddenly be a creepy letter there. It will be impossible to explain it by methods other than magic without doubting Krauss and Natsuhi. The first argument in the upper world can be held here. Without doubting Krauss and Natsuhi there is absolutely no way to see through it. Probably 'they' won't be able to think of anything outside of something having to do with the lock, or some kind of location-based trick based off a gap in or around the door or window. But if this is a closed room in the true meaning, there isn't some mysterious culprit hiding somewhere. If I note all these things in red, they'll just give up. They can only destroy 'false closed rooms'. So, if this room really is a closed room, they'll go as far as 'it's magnificent' and stop thinking. Spoiler for Thoughts: Genji seems to be quite a robot, in on everything and happy to help with the dirty work... for no discernible reason. We have an explanation for why so many corpses are mutilated; it's not really to gross people out as it's to distract from the mundane way in which people were actually killed. Very explicit... and expected explanation for the letters. Krauss and Natsuhi seem to be in a very similar situation to Rosa in Turn. Wonder why Yasu used explosives in Kinzo's room. Also, interesting that the meta world is described from a meta-meta perspective. Last edited by Wanderer; 2012-11-04 at 08:18.

2012-09-17, 10:23	Link #30630
Drifloon Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011	That's all pretty interesting. I still don't think that the mutilated corpses are really necessary, though...Everyone in EP3 was killed in pretty mundane ways, but I don't think it was any less effective in conveying the Illusion of the Witch. Heck, it might even have been better to go for a more subtle approach. Yasu really isn't a very refined witch, is she? Pukukuku.

2012-09-17, 11:45	Link #30632
Patchwork Chimera Human Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Crime Scene	I find really curious how, if this is the general way the murders were done, in-game people tends to be sympathetic towards Yasu. Maybe in Prime it didn't happen that way. Maybe she went back, decided not to kill anyone or something like that. Still, holly shit. This are her toughts and desires, Ladies & Gents. But then, even Our Confessions is full of fantasy scenes, just in a different perspective called OOC. If we try to link it to the perception of every META that played the gameboard that went all 'find the heart~, don't exclusively blame Beato~', this scenarios have so many wrongs in them. So what, OurConf. is a work witout love? In other words a B. Battler scenario? Ryuukishi tends to go to the extremes so often is funny: or you see the culprit as a tragic hero who breaks under the world's unfairness, or the culprit is a psycothic bastard that gets the giggles dismembering pepole. Still, this pretty much writes down the general theories that go around the net to explain the gameboards (and the most easy to reach): namely, that Yasu with the help of the servants reunited all the siblings to announce herself as the Head and then went beast on them, dishonored their bodies and worked in the pretty first twilight that tends to be so shocking. That the accomplices were the ones leaving letters when nobody was looking and that Yasu had more ways to kill them that the winchesters. I wonder what went wrong in Rokken Prime... the first twilight seems so full of posibilities to fail, least some of them are faking it. __________________ ~º~º~º~ Sin importar cuanto busques la respuesta, ésta te aludirá con certeza hasta que estés listo para escucharla.

2012-09-17, 13:30	Link #30634
Drifloon Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011	Well, I think that the "If you're gonna hate, hate the guy who trashed his promise" line is more saying that the victims shouldn't blame Beatrice for their deaths, but Battler for forcing her to do it. ...Sure, that is a screwed up way of thinking, but it really isn't anything new. Clair said in EP7 that she always found it disagreeable that Battler wouldn't realise that the crime was his fault. It seriously seems like she thinks that she isn't to blame at all, and that she had literally no choice after what Battler did to her. That's actually the vibe I get throughout a lot of EP7. Also, does anyone find it odd how the fantasy scene is so self-contradictory here? I mean, you'd think that Flauros would say to blame Kinzo for starting the ceremony, since that is what the fantasy version of the story is supposed to be. And also, how Flauros mentions Krauss and Natsuhi being absent, but then they're retconned into being present?

2012-09-17, 14:48	Link #30635
AuraTwilight The True Culprit Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The Golden Land	I don't think Yasu is really resenting Battler here so much as shifting blame from herself. Something she's done her whole life regarding absolutely everything. That being said I still refuse to believe she did it. __________________ When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531

2012-09-17, 16:51	Link #30636
UsagiTenpura Artist Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Yesterday!	Thought of something, which I haven't seen explored personally. Kinzo challenged everyone with the epitaph riddle because he learned he was about to die. Looking for an alternative to genital problems concerning Yasu's complex, couldn't it be that? Yasu learned she was about to die, making her feel like she was not allowed to love (as she would never grow up to fulfill it). Her actions related to the epitaph might parallel Kinzo's as well. Whoever solved the epitaph = Beatrice (to Kinzo). Is Yasu seeking a "Battler" or something in the same process? Is it somehow possible what Yasu is looking for is redemption before her death? Arc 6 even has Battler seemingly fulfilling every wish of Beatrice (meta people) yet she still dies. Rest in peace? Could that be her goal?

2012-09-17, 17:01	Link #30637
Patchwork Chimera Human Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Crime Scene	That's... actually not that bad. If the wounds left in her body by being trown from a cliff were internal and her organs were failing, not only her uterus, she'd die before she could properly begin her life as a wife or boyfriend or whatever. Then all her despair and devil-may-care atitude might be less weird: it's not extrange that people with a death sentence by illness does crazy things. Actually equal or more crazy than blowing up an island. It's sounds good and despairing enough... On a side note: I realized that Battler had resolved the part about following the sweetfish river and searching for a place with certain kanji in it's name in EP1. The cousins even sugested looking a map. Yes, they were using Odawara and not the right 'river' (choosing the right thing is hard for those who don't know about taiwan). Cool thing is that Battler alone came with the steps to apply to the real thing in little time lazyng in the beach, and all the other cousins had to think together to reach it. C'mon, Battler. You are always at least mildly competent in gameboard, but in Meta you're a small bomb failure. Tsk, tsk. __________________ ~º~º~º~ Sin importar cuanto busques la respuesta, ésta te aludirá con certeza hasta que estés listo para escucharla. Last edited by Patchwork Chimera; 2012-09-17 at 17:34.

2012-09-17, 21:16	Link #30639
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	Ah well I was assuming it was still Beatrice talking through Flauros anyway, but reading that sentence in Japanese I think it's almost certainly Beatrice directly. That "sonatara" isn't something that anyone else would say. __________________