Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[Skye629]

Originally Posted by Znozzy

Sidenote: I really hope we get to see a dual-piloted Gundam/Mecha with remote weapons someday, with one pilot functioning as usual and the second pilot attacking with drones/funnels like a gunner in a jet.

We do, its called the Harute (00 Movie)

Originally Posted by kaito-kid

How exactly did the first batch of those compact reactors work?
The freedom, Justice and providence never showed any problems managing all that energy from the reactor.
I always assumed that even the 1st generation nuclear powered mobile suits had a battery of some sort where all the energy from the rector was being stored.
Kira).

I would assume it had to do with the new weapons and tech. The first nuclear suit line used standard stuff at the time while the Destiny ones had stronger phase armor, beam shields, WoL (in the case of Destiny, Freedom's was never really shown to function the same), etc. But then again we only see Shinn and the Destiny having energy issues due to him maintaining and constantly using the WoL

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Znozzy

Yeah, but you can't really apply costs to a show that never even mentions currency, lol

honestly, if i recall the only time we get to see them shop or mention currency is in SEED's desert arc and Destiny's episode where Lacus is shopping with Kira.

That's understandable, though--trying to incorporate currency into a show is problematic, especially since that far into the future, they likely don't use any kind of currency in use today. Easier to just not really focus on it. Either way, though, those Gundams likely cost a fortune to make.

Originally Posted by kaito-kid

How exactly did the first batch of those compact reactors work?
The freedom, Justice and providence never showed any problems managing all that energy from the reactor.
I always assumed that even the 1st generation nuclear powered mobile suits had a battery of some sort where all the energy from the rector was being stored.

I don't think SEED's ever detailed on how the Ultracompact Nuclear Fission Reactors worked.

Originally Posted by kaito-kid

It's interesting that non of the pilots in Destiny using "super DRAGOON" actually needed the computer guided system since they were already Newtypes (Mu, Rau) or became a Newtype later on (Kira).

Honestly, I figure that the new control system was retconned in just to explain why Kira can suddenly use them, since technically there's not supposed to be Newtypes in Gundam SEED. It's hardly the first time they've tried to make Kira sound like he's not as special as he actually is (like the whole Ultimate Coordinator clarification).

Originally Posted by Skye629

We do, its called the Harute (00 Movie)

The Gundam AGE-FX also does the same when it's using A-Funnels rather than C-Funnels--Kio piloted the mobile suit, while Wendy controlled the A-Funnels.

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by Skye629

I would assume it had to do with the new weapons and tech. The first nuclear suit line used standard stuff at the time while the Destiny ones had stronger phase armor, beam shields, WoL (in the case of Destiny, Freedom's was never really shown to function the same), etc. But then again we only see Shinn and the Destiny having energy issues due to him maintaining and constantly using the WoL

But wasn't this whole "Destiny running out of energy despite having the same generator as the SFreedom, IJustice, and Legend" retconned out in TV Movie 4, which had Rey telling Shinn on the lines of "You have to head back to the Minerva to restock on weapons"?

[The American Average]

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

But wasn't this whole "Destiny running out of energy despite having the same generator as the SFreedom, IJustice, and Legend" retconned out in TV Movie 4, which had Rey telling Shinn on the lines of "You have to head back to the Minerva to restock on weapons"?

i believe they did but still doesn't make sense Shinn still had those Palma Fiocina (which are the same thing as a beam rifle) and WOL but at least the restock stuff thing was a better excuse then the whole out of energy thing.

[Znozzy]

Originally Posted by Skye629

We do, its called the Harute (00 Movie)

I was thinking something more refined, think Harute cockpit combined with 08th ms team theme. An actual gunner, also locking on missiles, etc if available.

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

That's understandable, though--trying to incorporate currency into a show is problematic, especially since that far into the future, they likely don't use any kind of currency in use today. Easier to just not really focus on it. Either way, though, those Gundams likely cost a fortune to make.

Well, Age solved it with a bag of gold.

Yeah, if anything, i belive they took alot of work to put together aswell, with the nuclear reactors and all.

Honestly, I figure that the new control system was retconned in just to explain why Kira can suddenly use them, since technically there's not supposed to be Newtypes in Gundam SEED. It's hardly the first time they've tried to make Kira sound like he's not as special as he actually is (like the whole Ultimate Coordinator clarification).

I dunno, i honestly like the fact that non-newtypes can use remote weapons, the pew pew sounds they make when flying around is one of my favorite sounds.

The Gundam AGE-FX also does the same when it's using A-Funnels rather than C-Funnels--Kio piloted the mobile suit, while Wendy controlled the A-Funnels.

Oh, wow. i had no idea about that, but i havent checked out alot of AGE side material to be honest.

Originally Posted by The American Average

i believe they did but still doesn't make sense Shinn still had those Palma Fiocina (which are the same thing as a beam rifle) and WOL but at least the restock stuff thing was a better excuse then the whole out of energy thing.

Arent the Palma Fiocina short-range beam weapons?

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Znozzy

Well, Age solved it with a bag of gold.

Hah. Joke aside, it actually caused a lot of arguing, as I'm sure you remember.

Originally Posted by Znozzy

I dunno, i honestly like the fact that non-newtypes can use remote weapons, the pew pew sounds they make when flying around is one of my favorite sounds.

It was better than some of their retcons, admittedly. It just needed to be done because before then, people with high spatial awareness were the only ones who could use those weapons properly. Then suddenly Kira could use them despite there being no indication that he could have done so, so it was a problem they needed to fix. The "Newtype" bit was a different problem though, caused by their throwaway reference in SEED.

Originally Posted by Znozzy

Oh, wow. i had no idea about that, but i havent checked out alot of AGE side material to be honest.

Yeah, I only found out about it myself recently. A 17-year-old Kio and Wendy used the Gundam AGE-FX with the A-Funnel equipment against a remnant of SID.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

But wasn't this whole "Destiny running out of energy despite having the same generator as the SFreedom, IJustice, and Legend" retconned out in TV Movie 4, which had Rey telling Shinn on the lines of "You have to head back to the Minerva to restock on weapons"?

I believe that's the same reason given in the TV series. So we'll have to wait until the remaster gets to that point to see if it was truly retconned.

[Gundamx]

Originally Posted by monster

I believe that's the same reason given in the TV series. So we'll have to wait until the remaster gets to that point to see if it was truly retconned.

in TV series t was because his energy was in red ( same picture from impulse?)

[monster]

Originally Posted by Gundamx

in TV series t was because his energy was in red ( same picture from impulse?)

I meant that Rey still told Shinn to re-equip his weapons.

[Kuroi Hadou]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Honestly, I figure that the new control system was retconned in just to explain why Kira can suddenly use them

The control system itself would have jacked up the costs of the Super DRAGOON system, given that you have to develop all the components to do the work the pilot's mind was originally doing, then you need to write the drivers, then you need to write the processes that bring those drivers together, then you need to plug the whole thing into the OS without messing with anything else. Depending on how the OS itself was designed, you could potentially need to completely rewrite the entire OS from scratch just to accomodate the Super DRAGOON system.

[Rising Dragon]

So that's... what? 1 and a half, 2 hours of work for your average Coordinator?

[Kuroi Hadou]

Eh, it's not so much the hours of work, it's the amount. The F-35 is in a software crisis right now because millions and millions of lines of code need to keep being written just to make the OS work, and that's just a "mere" jet.

[monster]

Thinking about it, Destiny-era DRAGOON System probably used an even more advanced form of the multi-targeting system used in the Justice, Freedom, and (possibly) Providence (as well as other related mobile suits).

Except, instead of just keeping track of potential targets, the DRAGOON System also keeps track of each beam emitter and helps to coordinate them on behalf of the pilot for simultaneous movement and attack, just as the Freedom can do with its multiple weapons, minus the movement.

[Kuroi Hadou]

That's even more work from a software perspective, given just how much hardware you need to keep track of and coordinate. It would make more sense to devote an entirely seperate computer within the MS just to handle the targeting systems and keep them coordinated like you mentioned. That also means more work from a hardware perspective, since the software can't do much if the hardware either isn't there or isn't capable of doing what the software wants it to do.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou

That's even more work from a software perspective, given just how much hardware you need to keep track of and coordinate. It would make more sense to devote an entirely seperate computer within the MS just to handle the targeting systems and keep them coordinated like you mentioned. That also means more work from a hardware perspective, since the software can't do much if the hardware either isn't there or isn't capable of doing what the software wants it to do.

Oh, it's definitely more work for the computer system (both hardware and software), with some kind of distributed computing going on between the controlling mobile suit and each of the mobile emitters.

I'm not sure about a separate, dedicated computer within the controlling mobile suit itself. That would depend on whatever cost-benefit analysis was done during development.

[Kuroi Hadou]

Even if it didn't have a dedicated targeting computer, the Super DRAGOON system alone would be responsible for a major chunk of the SF's price.

You've also got to look into maintenance and logistsics costs like keeping the individual DRAGOONs powered and fueled with their own engines, and the railguns need to be maintained, and then there's the gases the Voiture Lumiere is using...

[monster]

Oh, just to be clear, I wasn't entering into the price discussion.

[Kuroi Hadou]

Yeah, I know. I was just using it as a bridge.

[Skye629]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

That's understandable, though--trying to incorporate currency into a show is problematic, especially since that far into the future, they likely don't use any kind of currency in use today. Easier to just not really focus on it. Either way, though, those Gundams likely cost a fortune to make.



I don't think SEED's ever detailed on how the Ultracompact Nuclear Fission Reactors worked.



Honestly, I figure that the new control system was retconned in just to explain why Kira can suddenly use them, since technically there's not supposed to be Newtypes in Gundam SEED. It's hardly the first time they've tried to make Kira sound like he's not as special as he actually is (like the whole Ultimate Coordinator clarification).



The Gundam AGE-FX also does the same when it's using A-Funnels rather than C-Funnels--Kio piloted the mobile suit, while Wendy controlled the A-Funnels.

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

But wasn't this whole "Destiny running out of energy despite having the same generator as the SFreedom, IJustice, and Legend" retconned out in TV Movie 4, which had Rey telling Shinn on the lines of "You have to head back to the Minerva to restock on weapons"?

Originally Posted by The American Average

i believe they did but still doesn't make sense Shinn still had those Palma Fiocina (which are the same thing as a beam rifle) and WOL but at least the restock stuff thing was a better excuse then the whole out of energy thing.

Originally Posted by Znozzy

I was thinking something more refined, think Harute cockpit combined with 08th ms team theme. An actual gunner, also locking on missiles, etc if available.

Ah, but I would argue that the Harute's system is more "refined", it uses minimal interface while leaving most actions up to both pilots quantum brainwaves. Soma acted as a gunner in Harute form, while in Marute it was a full combo between both Hallelujah's and Soma's quantum brainwaves. Either one could easily take either role due to their sync and perform piloting and/or weapon control functions (incoming missiles and MS didn't stand a chance with the missles/beams/and scissor bits it was spewing). And if you saw the movie you would know how effective that was, though in the end sheer numbers and time overwhelmed it

I would say what you are going for is a more traditional/classic dual pilot configuration, like what you would find today in some present day combat planes. The problem about this in a Gundam is that both pilots would have to be Newtypes/Cyber newtypes to obtain an effective sync/coordination due to a MS complexity over a plane/fighter. This would also probably have to be some sort of unique MS/MA design as a standard humanoid one would only need one pilot

[Kuroi Hadou]

Originally Posted by Skye629

The problem about this in a Gundam is that both pilots would have to be Newtypes/Cyber newtypes to obtain an effective sync/coordination due to a MS complexity over a plane/fighter. This would also probably have to be some sort of unique MS/MA design as a standard humanoid one would only need one pilot

I'm not really so sure about that. MS may seem more complex, and from some standpoints they are, but at the same time the same futuristic innovations which make them possible also make it a lot easier on the pilots, in that you'd have a lot more automation and auto-correction/fault tolerance built in. The advantage of a pilot/gunner would still carry over, since you'd have one dedicated solely to each role in addition to an on-board commander who can make the necessary decisions about the mission and the like. You don't need magical pixie dust or Newtype hax to get proper coordination when the roles are segregated like that. Besides, Harute had three pilots, not two.