Kyoto Animation: Studio discussion, speculation, and whatnot.

[Ithekro]

I've seen Japanese movies do it too. I believe the animated Yamato movie from 2009 did huge the first week or two (just behind the Haruhi movie and around or above the Nanoha movie) and then sort of dropped out of existance...until it starting appearing on the internet and then DVD/BR sales hit.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Why is it not a good idea?

The thing is that the audience and habits are quite different in such hobby, moreso with popular franchise.
Ticket Prices and BD/DVD prices are quite different, leading to extremely different pattern in term of Movies remaining in the theaters or not (I really doubt you would expect movies to remain 6 months after its original release in theaters in the US for instance).

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

I've seen Japanese movies do it too. I believe the animated Yamato movie from 2009 did huge the first week or two (just behind the Haruhi movie and around or above the Nanoha movie) and then sort of dropped out of existance...until it starting appearing on the internet and then DVD/BR sales hit.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

The thing is that the audience and habits are quite different in such hobby, moreso with popular franchise.
Ticket Prices and BD/DVD prices are quite different, leading to extremely different pattern in term of Movies remaining in the theaters or not (I really doubt you would expect movies to remain 6 months after its original release in theaters in the US for instance).

Thanks to both of you for the info.

The main thing Westlo suggested that I was taking issue with, though, was not how well K-On would do in theaters, but how much it would effect the manga.

In the case of K-On in particular, the latest K-On manga chapters have met with mixed fan reaction in Japan, from what I can recall reading online. This is due to content-based reasons pertaining to the manga narrative itself (Ithekro and I, amongst others, discussed this a bit on the K-On subforum itself, IIRC). I'm not sure why an animated K-On film would override that, when it will have entirely different content from the manga.

[Bri]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

So something like Sora no Woto or a more serious Galaxy Angel is needed.
Honestly, I don't mind either, although it's hard to go for another Sora no Woto that is not a rip-off without stretching the bounds of realism.

I wonder now, which genres could KyoAni pull off decently?

Don't think there is any genre they couldn't handle as long a there is source material for the storyline and existing designs that can be adapted.

Altough if you actually want to sell anime, genre doesn't matter. Going by the best selling anime list you can get by with a hefty dose of either sexy moe, pretty bishonen or famous mecha, and some good production values. Story is optional.

[Random32]

[QUOTE=Triple_R;3790697]

No, it isn't. Again, how can you downplay the impact of something that hasn't even happened yet?

Downplay isn't really the right word. Have an unrealistically pessimistic expectations is better.

You act like no movie has ever done worse than expected, or no anime has ever had disappointing sales. We both know that's entirely false.

You act like K-On! isn't popular. You act like KyoAni isn't good at what it does.

Even if the K-On! Movie does every bit as well as you think it will, that doesn't help KyoAni any with folks who aren't K-On fans, or with people who are looking for KyoAni to add something new to its full suite of shows.

This is what they were trying to do with Nichijou.

I'm not saying it invalidates the track record, but let's not forget that this track record included some high-profile source material in the Key titles and Haruhi.

KyoAni has little track record in turning "small time 4Komas" into big hits. That, specifically, they've only done twice (Lucky Star and K-On). If 1 isn't much to go on, then neither is 2.

KyoAni makes high quality, relatively faithful adaptations. They can't make a set of stories and characters become appealing if they originally weren't. As I have said many times, KyoAni has a track record of turning things into gold, but if the original thing was a turd, it will be a golden turd.

Why is E8 all Kadokawa's fault, in your view? Why doesn't KyoAni take any blame for this whatsoever? Is Kadokawa simply the parent company of KyoAni?

Serious question, because that does seem to be how some people talk about the two. As though KyoAni has no independence whatsoever, and has to ask "How high?" every time Kadokawa tells KyoAni to jump.

I'm pretty sure its established that KyoAni does what they are told to do rather reliably. Kadokawa exerts a lot of influence over what KyoAni does and has told them to do some stupid things (E8 for example). You can blame KyoAni for following orders either because they were orders and KyoAni is passive like that or because they had enough confidence to follow stupid ones. Kadokawa initiated the problem. KyoAni takes the blame for following through. Even outside of KyoAni/Kadokawa, the person who originally causes the problem takes more blame than those just doing what they were told to do.

[Klashikari]

There is a major issue: Producers and Sponsors are the major part of the production of an anime series.
Unless a studio was given complete control over a series, the said studio won't be able to do much if sponsors etc are against that. Pretty much the same than Mangaka with their editors.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Random32

Downplay isn't really the right word. Have an unrealistically pessimistic expectations is better.

Err.... the point is it hasn't happened yet, so maybe it's just not being unrealistically optimistic?

You act like K-On! isn't popular. You act like KyoAni isn't good at what it does.

The first part is nonsense. Has anyone said K-on isn't popular? The second part tries to pass something off as fact without asserting anything.

If you're gonna quote someone, I'd recommend actually not putting words in their mouth.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Random32

Have an unrealistically pessimistic expectations is better.

I've repeatedly said that the K-On movie will do well, and be a success, but I've also said that assuming anything beyond that is presumptuous.

That is obviously not "unrealistically pessimistic expectations" on my part. It's simply being prudent and cautious, imo.

You act like K-On! isn't popular. You act like KyoAni isn't good at what it does.

No, I don't act that way.

This is what they were trying to do with Nichijou.

And this is why I'd like to see them aim for something a bit bigger than a small time 4Koma (or 4Koma-esque) manga next time they adapt something new.

KyoAni seems incapable of doing more than a mere project or two per year, so they need to be very choosy about what they do, imo.

I'm pretty sure its established that KyoAni does what they are told to do rather reliably. Kadokawa exerts a lot of influence over what KyoAni does and has told them to do some stupid things (E8 for example). You can blame KyoAni for following orders either because they were orders and KyoAni is passive like that or because they had enough confidence to follow stupid ones. Kadokawa initiated the problem. KyoAni takes the blame for following through. Even outside of KyoAni/Kadokawa, the person who originally causes the problem takes more blame than those just doing what they were told to do.

That's largely a fair assessment, I think.

[Lord of Fire]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Why is E8 all Kadokawa's fault, in your view? Why doesn't KyoAni take any blame for this whatsoever?

From what I read, it was Kadokawa who told KyoAni to animate eight Endless Eight episodes. KyoAni merely made it happen and tried their best to prevent it from becoming too monotonous (YMMV how well they achieved that).

Is Kadokawa simply the parent company of KyoAni?

No. Kadokawa and others are merely production companies in any form or way (e.g. Kadokawa Shoten is a manga publisher, Pony Canyon is a record label). I'm pretty sure they don't have any animation studio under their wings. They collaborate with them, but they do not own them, else you probably would've seen Kadokawa or whoever put their name on every KyoAni production.

Serious question, because that does seem to be how some people talk about the two. As though KyoAni has no independence whatsoever, and has to ask "How high?" every time Kadokawa tells KyoAni to jump.

Which seems to be the case here. From what I gather, the only time you can hold an animation studio accountable is when they mess up on the animation, script and/or voice acting.

[Bri]

Originally Posted by Lord of Fire

From what I read, it was Kadokawa who told KyoAni to animate eight Endless Eight episodes. KyoAni merely made it happen and tried their best to prevent it from becoming too monotonous (YMMV how well they achieved that).

Yamatokan said at Otakon 2009 that he was, as an animation director, part of the meetings by the creative team on E8 in early 2007. He wanted it to be 2 episodes. Creative descisions like this are normally the responsebility of the director, in this case Tatsuya Ishihara. Whether Kadokawa requested something like E8 as a marketing ploy I do not know. There is an interview with one of the Kadokawa brothers on ANN where they confirm that "unorthodox marketing" is an intentional part of the Haruhi franchise.

Originally Posted by Lord of Fire

No. Kadokawa and others are merely production companies in any form or way (e.g. Kadokawa Shoten is a manga publisher, Pony Canyon is a record label). I'm pretty sure they don't have any animation studio under their wings. They collaborate with them, but they do not own them, else you probably would've seen Kadokawa or whoever put their name on every KyoAni production.

True. Kyoani is not one of the 43 subsidiaries of the Kadokawa Group Holding. Nor does the balance sheet show any participation in shares. It's important to note the sheer scale difference though. Kadokawa is a multinational with an annual turnover of 150 billion yen. Animation studios are dwarves in comparison. Much of the budget is brought together by the producers, they also take most of the profits.

Originally Posted by Lord of Fire

Which seems to be the case here. From what I gather, the only time you can hold an animation studio accountable is when they mess up on the animation, script and/or voice acting.

It's hard to tell with Japanese businesses. The dominance of personal networks and connections don't really help project transparancy. It's not like a random studio gets hired every time. The influence of the original creator and a projects director should not be underestimated. For example: Ishihara's connections at Visual Art's landed Kyoani the Key works. FMP's creator Shoji Gatoh requested for Kyoani to do further adaptions and has worked as a freelance writer for the studio. Both Gainax (Evangelion) and Sunrise (Zeta movies) have adapted production schedules to make sure Kyoto was available for subcontract work.

[AbZeroNow]

Originally Posted by Westlo

Just a FYI but Cowboy Bebop is the 13th best selling TV anime in Japan...

The old list.

#10 Martian Successor Nadesico 37897 units
#9 Dragon Ball Z 40065 units
#8 Cowboy Bebop 40212 units
#7 Suzumiya Haruhi 41307 units
#6 Code Geass 44657 units
#5 Zeta Gundam 54994 units
#4 Gundam Seed 58563 units
#3 Gundam Seed Destiny 69247 units
#2 Mobile Suit Gundam 80928 units
#1 Neon Genesis Evangelion 173458

+ Somethings Top 10 from his 2000 onwards list.

01)　　*78,671　　¥3,558m　　15 ep　　2009　　Shaft__________　　Aniplex______　　Bakemono gatari
02)　　*68,734　　¥5,629m　　50 ep　　2004　　Sunrise________　　Bandai_______　　Kido u Senshi Gundam SEED Destiny
03)　　*68,485　　¥2,957m　　12 ep　　2011　　Shaft__________　　Aniplex______　　Maho u Shoujo Madoka Magica
04)　　*58,589　　¥4,798m　　50 ep　　2002　　Sunrise________　　Bandai_______　　Kido u Senshi Gundam SEED
05)　　*50,551　　¥2,673m　　25 ep　　2006　　Sunrise________　　Bandai_______　　Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch
06)　　*46,146　　¥2,705m　　25 ep　　2008　　Satelight______　　Bandai_______　　Macr oss Frontier
07)　　*43,883　　¥2,309m　　14 ep　　2009　　Kyoto Animation　　Pony Canyon__　　K-ON!
08)　　*42,690　　¥2,370m　　25 ep　　2008　　Sunrise________　　Bandai_______　　Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch R2
09)　　*41,037　　¥2,091m　　14 ep　　2006　　Kyoto Animation　　Kadokawa_____　　Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu
10)　　*39,385　　¥2,888m　　27 ep　　2010　　Kyoto Animation　　Pony Canyon__　　K-ON!!

5 shows go above Bebop making it go from 8th to 13th.

I stand corrected on that. I guess TV Tropes isn't the best source(I think that's where I thought I heard Bebop was obscure before North America got it or maybe I was confusing that with Trigun). Glad to know that Bebop(one of my favorite older animes) sold well in Japan.

[rulfo]

Well... Related but not confirmed...

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...ime-adaptation

Next project? I'm kinda wishing for something else but... whatever then...

[ahelo]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Thanks to both of you for the info.

The main thing Westlo suggested that I was taking issue with, though, was not how well K-On would do in theaters, but how much it would effect the manga.

In the case of K-On in particular, the latest K-On manga chapters have met with mixed fan reaction in Japan, from what I can recall reading online. This is due to content-based reasons pertaining to the manga narrative itself (Ithekro and I, amongst others, discussed this a bit on the K-On subforum itself, IIRC). I'm not sure why an animated K-On film would override that, when it will have entirely different content from the manga.

The K-ON manga sells pretty well. One of the volumes sold 300 000+ copies and that was like a year ago or something.

[rulfo]

Well this likely seems like it won't be handled by KyoAni.

http://www.enterbrain.co.jp/fb/pc/02...p1-kokoro.html

The animation in the PV itself doesn't scream KyoAni style.

This one seems more likelier to be done by Horiguchi.

[thirdlc]

The PV on youtube is produced by Silver Link. Now you look at the one on enterbain with Silver Link in mind, it will clearly look like BakaTest. There is no question about the production company for Kokoro Connect.

[AbZeroNow]

I have two questions for the more knowledgeable people in this thread.

1. Is there anything to this "the next genre has mi" in it for KyoAni's next project?

2. When is KyoAni going to spill the beans about their next project? When the K-ON movie comes out? December 18th? Christmas?

[Sides]

Originally Posted by AbZeroNow

When the K-ON movie comes out? December 18th? Christmas?

Next week actually, if your today is the 26th Nov. Unless they moved the date.

[Archon_Wing]

Blah, no more 4-koma moe plz. Kyoani should do something out of their comfort zone.

Remake MD Geist!

Starring Haruhi.

[darkchibi07]

You got your wish! KyoAni is adapting a mystery novel:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...hyoka-tv-anime

[rulfo]

Originally Posted by darkchibi07

You got your wish! KyoAni is adapting a mystery novel:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...hyoka-tv-anime

Here we go! So I'm curious... Very curious...

Awaiting the main staff members for this one.