Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 09 Discussion / Poll

[Dean_the_Young]

Originally Posted by dreamless

Christina is worse than Archangel CE crew, she's all happy-go-lucky when she's killing people, but she goes all whiny when her own life is on the line, I thought she was well-trained, but now she's like a kid playing NDS then realized the monsters from the NDS can actually get out and kill her

Pardon? Since when as Christina harmed anyone? She's about as guilty of killing as you are about violence that your parents are (or you are, if you pay taxes). She provides support. Taxes provide the money for bombs and troops, which means providing support. Christina is about as guilty as a tax payer.

Another interesting thing from this ep is that the Celestial Beings are not immortal after all, their Gundam Meisters can get killed, that's a good thing.

Again, pardon? There's been no sign of this yet. Lockon is missing a leg and still destroys a MS carrier. Setsuna and Virtue have yet to get scratched. And the Kyrios just ran through a minefield without major damage. CB may have been out manuvered, but that has nothing to do with being "immortal."

Besides, do you really expect for the next episode to be anything but Celestial Being pulling a complete reversal after a few more difficulties? Everyone kept going "Graham is going to crush the Exia" this and "Sanders is owning Setsuna" that, but in both cases a nice end-episode start was completely reversed at the start of the next. Graham retreated after being disarmed in less than a minute, and the only reason Sanders wasn't equally humiliated was that after disarming him, Setsuna wanted to verify his identity.

Originally Posted by Hage-bai

My what an interesting episode. I learnt a few things... The crew on Ptolemy are inept, all bust and little brain. Sumeragi got owned and Christina seems like she is a pleeb who fits more with the Archangel CE crew.

Now this is a just biased and, more importantly, wrong on multiple parts.

The crew of the Ptolemy is hardly inept; the only person who can be accused of that is the Casanova who took Christina's shift and didn't notice the (non-audible) alarm on another monitor. Christina noticed it the moment she entered the room.

Being terrified in one's first battle is not a mark of incompetence either, unless you consider the vast majority of soldiers incompetent. Because I assure you that every returning soldier I've met has told me that they were near-useless in their first firefight, and that the fear rarely went away afterwords. And considering that Christina hasn't been trained like soldiers are, and that she did do her part in raising the shields before succumbing, calling her "all bust no brain" is bull.

Initial results for their first battle is not satisfactory. Less time wearing bikinis and more time preparing for battle and not under-estimting your enemy would serve them better. Lets see if the eye-candy learn from their mistakes or if they are truly what they've been made out to be so far.

Did you not watch the episode or something?

The gundams are being prepared for battle; it's called a refit, which has the nasty problem of decreasing combat ability while maintanence is under effect. CB's mechanic rushed them incomplete back to battle readiness. And considering that Sumeragi outright stated that they would be in bad straights if attacked then, and that there was nothing to be done about it, points that she knew very well her situation. Short of handwaving some new gundams, there wasn't much she could do about it either.

And it's hard to call being out maneuvered as underestimating the opponent. Sumeragi's plan was to pull off a classic technique used by every military commander when applicable since Alexander the Great. The fact that Sergei (who she did not know was the commander) had explicitly planned a diversion for just that situation is not blame on her, it's credit to Sergei. Being out maneuvered =/= being dumb. Get over it.

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young

Again, pardon? There's been no sign of this yet.

I think he was referring more to the general fact that Gundam Meisters can get killed, as per Felt's parents, who were most likely KIA'd.

[ipernorris]

It's nice to see how much secrecy there is inside Celestial Being: even members don't know each other identity. Too bad Setsuna thrown away that secrecy in the last episode to show off to Marina.

[X207]

Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell

Spoiler for Sure, why not?:

Lowe Gear's post

nice, i too bad it wont stay in that 2nd form for the rest of the season.

[Joachim]

wait, so the gundam that setsuna saw when he was a kid is a.. 2nd generation CB? but the thing is, isn't they just recently know CB ? (in setsuna's generation) so the older generation (the first and second) is kinda "not have a name" kind of organization?

this is the kind of gundam i want, enjoying it every episode , i wonder if there will be any romance in this, though the pairing is kinda defined a little in this eps.. but well let us enjoy the action and the conflict yeaa

[Nerroth]

One thing I'm not sure about is

Spoiler for ep 9 spoiler:

Why did the system that the HRL put into the Taozi manage to block the signals messing with Soma's mind, but not those she apparently emits and disrupts Allelujah with?

I guess they were able to make it a unidirectional block - which would be a neat way of turning a liability (Soma's susceptibility) into a strength (Soma can mess up unshielded enemy pilots)...

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by dreamless

because the orbital ring also distrupts communication, so if they can get close to orbital ring before Sergei's fleet caught them, they'll be able to maneuver about the orbital ring without detection and possibly get away.

It disrupts wireless communications; but if the control centers can monitor the conditions of the orbital ring, then it would have to have a wired setup.

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

Seed Destiny had plenty of good fights in early and middle episodes.

I never thought very highly of Destiny's combat choreography.

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

Both sides are playing with more tact than HRL creating an open battle operations with CB. More tact politically at least. Also, it has nothing to do with cowardice to protect your own assets and being defensive about it. They know CB reacts to their actions, so they respond accordingly. If you took note of the episode, it seems that the opinion for peace is becoming stronger and that does not go against what AEU and Union are going for right now: to stabilize and continue with status quo.

Sometimes tact and cowardice are the same thing. So far, the status quo means doing nothing after getting attacked.

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

They probably realize that and AEU already made a mobile suit that can fight a Gundam, Union has its new brands of mobile suits (only a matter of finding Gundams) and HRL obviously showed a way to skirt the stealth issue.

I have no idea what you're talking about there.

I'm referring to the fact that the HRL used the disruption effect to track Celestial Being, and that I'd been hoping that someone would clue into such techniques.

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

But it seems that it's a civilian group to begin with. No real military discipline at all.

It has nothing to do with military discipline since even civilian crews should man their bridge at all times.

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

No, because at FIRST, Sumeragi thought it could've been anyone.

And she concluded that it was him, so how does this address what I pointed out?

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

The battle's flow was what led them to go into a radio-interference zone, not Sumeragi's predictions. You're not reading the ebbs and flow of the battle.

One would presume that Sumeragi knew where she was going since she was the one who dictated their paths.

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

You're contradicting yourself a bit. Also, I'm pretty sure it'd be much more of a pain to just go after the ship and expect FOUR Gundams instead of two.

I'm referring to the part where Sumeragi stated that Sergei was trying to capture a Gundam rather than attack Ptolemaios.

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

Propulsion = detection. In space, the GN drive works as the stealth system for the ship. So it makes sense that they'd otherwise not be worried about how far they're from a station. They got away for all this time after all.

This "stealth" is only effective against radio waves and the like; it'd still be foolish to be close to someplace that's certain to be monitored.

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

I disagree. It's just that they're vastly outnumbered and their mothership is apparently not a military craft. They're at an intrinsic disadvantage. It has NOTHING to do with the Gundams themselves but their battle situation, which is always against them. Defensively more so because they don't have a full army complementing them.

Why do you say that you disagree? That's pretty much what I said, only I couched it in terms of initiative.

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young

Pardon? Since when as Christina harmed anyone? She's about as guilty of killing as you are about violence that your parents are (or you are, if you pay taxes). She provides support. Taxes provide the money for bombs and troops, which means providing support. Christina is about as guilty as a tax payer.

By just about all the definitions of the word, she's as much a soldier as the pilots are. Another way of looking at it is that Osama bin Laden probably hasn't personally killed any American civilians, yet he's still responsible for their deaths.

[Joachim]

Originally Posted by Nerroth

One thing I'm not sure about is

Spoiler for ep 9 spoiler:

Why did the system that the HRL put into the Taozi manage to block the signals messing with Soma's mind, but not those she apparently emits and disrupts Allelujah with?

I guess they were able to make it a unidirectional block - which would be a neat way of turning a liability (Soma's susceptibility) into a strength (Soma can mess up unshielded enemy pilots)...

what i think is that, the system blocks all incoming "signal" to her brain, but it can still send outgoing"signal" hence the allelujah reaction while soma remain intact, kinda like one way communication

just my opinion

[dreamless]

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young

Pardon? Since when as Christina harmed anyone? She's about as guilty of killing as you are about violence that your parents are (or you are, if you pay taxes). She provides support. Taxes provide the money for bombs and troops, which means providing support. Christina is about as guilty as a tax payer.

nope, she's a member of an armed force, she's participated in the planning and coordination of armed attacks. Unless you think the operators on the bridges of battleships in the army are the same as taxing paying civilians like your parents (or you, if you can pay taxes) just because the operators don't directly push the buttons that launch the missiles, they are completely different. And no not any random civilian can become an operator on a battleship, they need miliary training as well.

Again, pardon? There's been no sign of this yet. Lockon is missing a leg and still destroys a MS carrier. Setsuna and Virtue have yet to get scratched. And the Kyrios just ran through a minefield without major damage. CB may have been out manuvered, but that has nothing to do with being "immortal."

Besides, do you really expect for the next episode to be anything but Celestial Being pulling a complete reversal after a few more difficulties? Everyone kept going "Graham is going to crush the Exia" this and "Sanders is owning Setsuna" that, but in both cases a nice end-episode start was completely reversed at the start of the next. Graham retreated after being disarmed in less than a minute, and the only reason Sanders wasn't equally humiliated was that after disarming him, Setsuna wanted to verify his identity.

Have you watched this episode? Or were you too lost during Felt's conversation part because your attention was all focused on Felt's loli moe-ness?

Originally Posted by 4Tran

It disrupts wireless communications; but if the control centers can monitor the conditions of the orbital ring, then it would have to have a wired setup.

It can have wired communication, so what? that won't reveal the ship's location I think.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by dreamless

It can have wired communication, so what? that won't reveal the ship's location I think.

It sort of overturns your theory about the orbital ring disrupting communications playing a role in Sumeragi's reasoning. Besides, it still doesn't make any sense to be near an enemy structure while at one's most vulnerable.

[SonicX_Zero]

The ep. was good and obviously it was a breath of fresh air to see the gundam meisters having a difficult time, but at the same time there were things that really irked me. IMO Setsuna's shooting was really bad and I mean really bad like he was some grunt shooting blankly at the middle of the enemy formation.

Another thing would be Sumeragi's decision to send out the two Gundams and at the same time placing the ship in a location with radio inteference, it was like Tieria and Allelujah were to stick with the Pincer strategy until the end of the battle and whatever changes Sumeragi had in mind, there would be no way to relay it to them. I guess she was confident that the pincer strategy would have been enough to defeat the enemy. =/

Meh same as always... 7.

[dreamless]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

It sort of overturns your theory about the orbital ring disrupting communications playing a role in Sumeragi's reasoning. Besides, it still doesn't make any sense to be near an enemy structure while at one's most vulnerable.

nope, Sergei can pin-point the location of the ship because he sends out a huge wireless communication network covering a huge space so any disruption of the comm network means the presence of GN particles. However the orbital ring have constant communication disruption around its promixity, so by going near the orbital ring, Sergei won't be able to pin-point the location of the ship, and by the look of it, the orbital ring is quite large, so the ship can hide and maneuver around without Sergei knowing its exact location, thus escaping the assault force. However it's obviously a bit too late since by the time the ship reached the orbital ring, it's already within visual range of the assault force.

And since this "enemy structure" doesn't have any offensive or detection ability, so it doesn't pose a threat.

[Duo Maxwell]

Originally Posted by dreamless

More like he's super kind to loli We should all call him Lolickon from now on

On the other hand Felt got to be the best loli of this season she may even have the potential to become the best loli since Ruri Hoshino

Can people stop calling her loli? She's not even close to a loli, why did people keep calling her loli?
I'm pretty sure almost everyone in this board has a wrong definition of loli <_<. Felt is more like a nymph, rather than loli.

[dreamless]

Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell

Can people stop calling her loli? She's not even close to a loli, why did people keep calling her loli?
I'm pretty sure almost everyone in this board has a wrong definition of loli <_<. Felt is more like a nymph, rather than loli.

definition of loli? is there such a thing to start with? Last time when people argue about the definition of loli on this board from what I remember, there came about a couple hundred different ones, ranging from Japanese otaku dictionary to American literature

So what's the difference between "nymph" and "loli"? Is it from some Japanese dictionary or American literature?

[Hydex]

Anyway, it could have been a great ep if only Felt was able to shut her mouth.

[qx123]

For me i am just glad to see Felt~ kawaii!

[Matrim]

So, the scriptriter is not utterly clueless after all. The contrast between this and some of the previous episodes (especially ep.8) is so profound that one might think there is more than one writer (which might actually be the case, whatever the credits claim). Let's see if there is a good resolution this time around after this pretty impressive setup.

Good to see they didin't insist on trying to make the viewers believe that there were actually people hating the Cbs more for wiping off the terrorists and overall it was almost as if it was decided that ep.8 should be forgotten ASAP.

Sergei is like a combination of Isaac Newton and Einstein compared to the likes of Marina, Setsuna and Saji (to name a few). If only he had concentrated on attacking the mothership...but then again if he wins decisively now there will be on 25-50 episodes long series, so this slight error is understandable.

I still don't see why are they wasting so much time with Saji. If they simply have to have such an archetypical character in the show, they should at least have made him do something (getting almost killed twice due to sheer coincidence/stupidly contrived plot or trying to be friendly with Setsuna does not count) or introduce him later on. If I wanted to see something like his "plotline", I would watch a random high school love comedy.

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by Hydex

Anyway, it could have been a great ep if only Felt was able to shut her mouth.

So you want a series where we don't learn about the characters backgrounds?

[Hage-bai]

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young

Pardon? Since when as Christina harmed anyone? She's about as guilty of killing as you are about violence that your parents are (or you are, if you pay taxes). She provides support. Taxes provide the money for bombs and troops, which means providing support. Christina is about as guilty as a tax payer.
Again, pardon? There's been no sign of this yet. Lockon is missing a leg and still destroys a MS carrier. Setsuna and Virtue have yet to get scratched. And the Kyrios just ran through a minefield without major damage. CB may have been out manuvered, but that has nothing to do with being "immortal."

Besides, do you really expect for the next episode to be anything but Celestial Being pulling a complete reversal after a few more difficulties? Everyone kept going "Graham is going to crush the Exia" this and "Sanders is owning Setsuna" that, but in both cases a nice end-episode start was completely reversed at the start of the next. Graham retreated after being disarmed in less than a minute, and the only reason Sanders wasn't equally humiliated was that after disarming him, Setsuna wanted to verify his identity.




Now this is a just biased and, more importantly, wrong on multiple parts.

The crew of the Ptolemy is hardly inept; the only person who can be accused of that is the Casanova who took Christina's shift and didn't notice the (non-audible) alarm on another monitor. Christina noticed it the moment she entered the room.

Being terrified in one's first battle is not a mark of incompetence either, unless you consider the vast majority of soldiers incompetent. Because I assure you that every returning soldier I've met has told me that they were near-useless in their first firefight, and that the fear rarely went away afterwords. And considering that Christina hasn't been trained like soldiers are, and that she did do her part in raising the shields before succumbing, calling her "all bust no brain" is bull.
Did you not watch the episode or something?

The gundams are being prepared for battle; it's called a refit, which has the nasty problem of decreasing combat ability while maintanence is under effect. CB's mechanic rushed them incomplete back to battle readiness. And considering that Sumeragi outright stated that they would be in bad straights if attacked then, and that there was nothing to be done about it, points that she knew very well her situation. Short of handwaving some new gundams, there wasn't much she could do about it either.

And it's hard to call being out maneuvered as underestimating the opponent. Sumeragi's plan was to pull off a classic technique used by every military commander when applicable since Alexander the Great. The fact that Sergei (who she did not know was the commander) had explicitly planned a diversion for just that situation is not blame on her, it's credit to Sergei. Being out maneuvered =/= being dumb. Get over it.

Why the f should i get over it? Makes for good drama, but i call it like i see it.

Sumeragi made a horrible decision that has forced them to be without the majority of their firepower and has put 2 gundams at risk. She has openly admitted to making a mistake similar to that in the past. Lets hope she gets it right the third time. So what if she stated that they would be in deep shit if attacked during repairs. Again it points to the ineptness of her crew members for being discovered.

Christina's a pleeb..no talking your way around it. As i said, they should learn from their mistakes and grow into the a fine crew as is the point of the show. But i stand by my initial impressions of them.

[Geass]

Finally managed to see this episode and the last one. Excellent episode, I can't wait for next week, especially since it looks like Allelujah and Tieria will be getting some showtime.