To Aru Majutsu no Index LN - Genesis Testament Volume 3 Discussion

[Chosen_Hero]

Oh look, Hamazura conveniently has a Deus ex Machina to replace Aneri, his other Deus ex Machina that he can't use at the moment.

Originally Posted by Twi

Ugh... I'm kind of unhappy how the prologue starts though.

Spoiler:

Kuroko, I know you are in love with Misaka but still, does it have to be your sole motivation for diving into this?


And I really don't like how Shiage is justifying that they had nowhere but the Dark Side to go when he literally worked for a group who killed people on assignment and tried to kill Misaka's mother because of orders from the Board of Directors. I get there's shades of gray, but the depths of this darkness are pretty deep and he was swimming in it.

And on that note:

Spoiler:

I legitimately don't think all of Anti-Skill are intentionally doing this. I think that between the Coins of Nicholas appearing that its somehow doing this to sour the entire operation. A 100% success rate on a single attempt at anything per hour. Magic that doesn't immediately screw over an Esper using it. There's a price being paid here and I think that its being done with the lives of these people. Remember how Othinius had the thing where she had a 50-50 chance of something going right or wrong, but when it was against Touma she had a 100% chance due to his luck?


And who thought sending a single person to capture a Level 4 and Level 5 was smart?

Agreed, I really hate how the story is trying to justify that not everyone that works on the dark side is evil... which, as you mention, makes no damn sense considering Hamazura himself has taken assassination and kidnapping jobs and who know what other kinds of horrible jobs in the past. Meanwhile, here we have Takitsubo who was the one aiming the murderers with pinpoint accuracy at their victims, while Kinuhata and Mugino did the stomping and the killing, of which by the way, Hamazura actively got rid of the evidence himself, but he felt bad that one time so I guess he's been redeemed.

There's also the fact that to work for the dark side you not only have to know about all of the heinous disgusting shit going on and that are being done by the people you work for and help, but also you have to actively ignore it and let it happen.

How the hell am I supposed to believe the bs he is spewing when the dark side is the most horrible thing outside of actual literal monsters? This is like someone coming up to me and saying: "But no really, not all terrorists are that bad tho, some of the are super nice and totally essential to society, you need to talk to them and get to know them better." It doesn't matter how much of a sweet person they are, it doesn't change the fact that THEY ARE F****** TERRORISTS.

But hey, Kamachi needs to find a way to make his golden boy look like the good guy and to come out on top in the end, so I guess he doesn't mind retconning and/or ignoring a few things from the characters past.

Calling it now, Hamazura get off scott free while teaching everyone that not all of the terrorists are bad guys after all.

As for who is behind the Anti Skill brutality, there's three options that come to my mind:

1. D.A.

2. The higher ups of the Dark Side

3. Anna

4. All of the above working together to undermine Accelerators plans.

Remember, Accelerator wanted to do things right and by the law, that's why he turned himself in instead of going after the Dark Side himself and just singlehandedly annihilating them. Also Anna literally told him that she was going to mess it all up for him, so... Yeah.

[Twi]

Someone brought it to my attention that:

Spoiler:

The magic of the coins might be based off St. Nicolas, who was (and I'm not making this up) the Patron Saint of Prostitutes.

He overheard some women lamenting that they were about to have to sell themselves due to debt so he secretly tossed coins down their chimneys, effectively becoming the first Secret Santa. It fits with how they just woke up and had the coins.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Twi

Spoiler:

And I really don't like how Shiage is justifying that they had nowhere but the Dark Side to go when he literally worked for a group who killed people on assignment and tried to kill Misaka's mother because of orders from the Board of Directors. I get there's shades of gray, but the depths of this darkness are pretty deep and he was swimming in it.

Recall that many people in the dark side were forcibly recruited by the city's leadership. Even Hamazura got involved with the plot to kill Mikoto's mom because city leadership threatened to kill him and the rest of his Skill Out group.

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

Agreed, I really hate how the story is trying to justify that not everyone that works on the dark side is evil... which, as you mention, makes no damn sense considering Hamazura himself has taken assassination and kidnapping jobs and who know what other kinds of horrible jobs in the past.

Evil is a pretty strong word, don't you think?

Hamazura never tried to justify anyone's crimes but the reality is that not everyone is the same. I wouldn't compare Gensei with some underling who just drives cars.

Meanwhile, here we have Takitsubo who was the one aiming the murderers with pinpoint accuracy at their victims, while Kinuhata and Mugino did the stomping and the killing, of which by the way, Hamazura actively got rid of the evidence himself, but he felt bad that one time so I guess he's been redeemed.

Again, he literally said nothing about himself or anybody else being redeemed. He said Kinuhata and Takitsubo are not as bad as some of the worst people in the dark side, which is actually true.

They certainly don't deserve to get executed by Anti-Skill instead of being arrested.

There's also the fact that to work for the dark side you not only have to know about all of the heinous disgusting shit going on and that are being done by the people you work for and help, but also you have to actively ignore it and let it happen.

That's quite a leap when we know Aleister was deliberately parceling out information to them piecemeal so no one knew everything.

[Twi]

Not all of them were. I acknowledge that some of them were, if fact I've gone on length about how the exploitation of a lot of the younger people is one of the darker themes I'm fond of in a blog post I did recently, but that gives even less of a reason for Hamazura to be espousing the Dark Side was necessary for them.

There's a difference between having a place to belong and that place being the cesspit where he had to dispose of bodies of victims who will continue to be missing or have been erased while their loved ones remain clueless. That isn't Skill Out territory (which isn't technically a part of the Dark Side) and that's not even the darkest depths we're talking about here. Accelerator's goal is to bring all of this to light so that they get their shot of getting out of the cesspit.

That's why I'm all for them getting taken in by Anti-Skill so they can give their testimonies and the ones who were pressed at gunpoint can at least get a shot at amnesty. They were victims too. The fact that they're being killed is the problem because if even those who were forcibly recruited are killed then the ones at the top are not only going to get away but that's more needless lives lost. But you can't deny that a lot of them took great pleasure in killing and didn't really feel remorse or pressure for it, even in the first volume that High-End Level 4 was gungho on offing people and outright asked why they couldn't just kill Last Order.

When Accelerator acknowledged his fall into villainy and doesn't give himself a free pass even when he's sitting at the top now, he set the standard for what needs to be done.

Which is part of what makes me mad that this is happening, someone is actively undermining his efforts to make AC a better place.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Twi

Not all of them were. I acknowledge that some of them were, if fact I've gone on length about how the exploitation of a lot of the younger people is one of the darker themes I'm fond of in a blog post I did recently, but that gives even less of a reason for Hamazura to be espousing the Dark Side was necessary for them.
There's a difference between having a place to belong and that place being the cesspit where he had to dispose of bodies of victims who will continue to be missing or have been erased while their loved ones remain clueless.

You're misinterpreting what Hamazura said. When he said it was the only place they could survive, he meant it quite literally.

Once you step foot in the dark side, they can blackmail you into doing anything for life. Take Hamazura himself, why do you think he became ITEM's errand boy? Once he dirtied his hands with attempted murder, he had to join the dark side, otherwise he'd get sent off to jail. You can say he should have just let himself get caught, and even he might agree, but you can understand why he didn't choose that option.

But you can't deny that a lot of them took great pleasure in killing and didn't really feel remorse or pressure for it, even in the first volume that High-End Level 4 was gungho on offing people and outright asked why they couldn't just kill Last Order.

I never denied that. What I denied was that they were all that bad, to the point that Anti-Skill needs to go around murdering all of them.

It's early days yet and I have more faith in Accel than that, but I can't help but note that I'm not seeing any higher ups getting arrested yet either

[Twi]

Originally Posted by Endscape

You're misinterpreting what Hamazura said. When he said it was the only place they could survive, he meant it quite literally.

Once you step foot in the dark side, they can blackmail you into doing anything for life. Take Hamazura himself, why do you think he became ITEM's errand boy? Once he dirtied his hands with attempted murder, he had to join the dark side, otherwise he'd get sent off to jail. You can say he should have just let himself get caught, and even he might agree, but you can understand why he didn't choose that option.

Fair enough. He can make his case once he's brought in that he had no choice once he dove down that rabbit hole into the cesspit, but that ends now. They should be taking this chance to get out of it rather than trying to cling to it.

I never denied that. What I denied was that they were all that bad, to the point that Anti-Skill needs to go around murdering all of them.

It's early days yet and I have more faith in Accel than that, but I can't help but note that I'm not seeing any higher ups getting arrested yet either

I don't think its intentional. Accel is smart enough to vet the people carrying out the operation and make sure they aren't plants. I can understand why Anti-Skill would be casual about the deaths given that whatever information they have would really paint them as being scum of the earth who have it coming, but it'd be ridiculous for that many deaths to be written off as an accident in reports for a cover-up.

This really feels like Anna messing with him given those coins popping out of nowhere came from her company.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Twi

Fair enough. He can make his case once he's brought in that he had no choice once he dove down that rabbit hole into the cesspit, but that ends now. They should be taking this chance to get out of it rather than trying to cling to it.

Problem is, he's seen that Anti-Skill is just killing the Dark Side off, so he can't even turn himself in when they just might kill him. There's a reason Kamachi had him witness what happened to Karei.

I don't think its intentional. Accel is smart enough to vet the people carrying out the operation and make sure they aren't plants. I can understand why Anti-Skill would be casual about the deaths given that whatever information they have would really paint them as being scum of the earth who have it coming, but it'd be ridiculous for that many deaths to be written off as an accident in reports for a cover-up.

This really feels like Anna messing with him given those coins popping out of nowhere came from her company.

Who said they're plants? They could very well be normal Anti-Skill officers who have been fed up with the dark side for a while and decided to just do the city a favour and off them, whether with Nicholas coins or not.

And regarding whether or not the deaths would be written off, I honestly think they might be. They have public momentum on their side with all the revelations coming out and the weird tech the dark side uses would give them a great excuse for how dangerous apprehension is.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

There's also the fact that to work for the dark side you not only have to know about all of the heinous disgusting shit going on and that are being done by the people you work for and help, but also you have to actively ignore it and let it happen.

Hahaha, are you forgeting how Dark Side activity goes beyond simple recruitment of down and out people? Many of them are, in all sense of the word, born into it as lab experiments like Misaki. And let's not forget that their actions are literally manipulated by Aleister every step of the way (assuming he isn't bullshitting when he says every single step anyone takes in AC is part of his overall plan, which given how total his control of AC is, I'm inclined to believe).

It's early days yet and I have more faith in Accel than that, but I can't help but note that I'm not seeing any higher ups getting arrested yet either

Aren't most of them dead thanks to Noukan's purge?

[Kuroageha]

It seems we got some illustrations and text leaks.

Shiage got a new bro

Spoiler:

in Noukan.

[Kuroageha]

Kuroko got a full course of the Dark side

This feels like ot15 isn't it?

[BladeMancer]

Those twins are legit oppai loli, they are 10.

[Chosen_Hero]

(Looks at illustrations)

Gee, who could have forseen that outcome?

[jalvin_billster1091]

Originally Posted by BladeMancer

Those twins are legit oppai loli, they are 10.

I never noticed....... and I did a double check and DAM!!! they are stacked for 10 year old brats

[shmaster]

Vol3 arrived, and the whole thing can be summed up in two simple words: Anna won.

[Twi]

Details please.

[shmaster]

Originally Posted by Twi

Details please.

She tosses the coins around, and everything goes straight to hell.
Yeah, the Dark Side got cleaned up, but in a way not remotely close to the way Accelerator wanted.
It is so one-sided that Accel couldn't find a single ward to talk back while Anna completely trash talks over him.

「There's not a single ward.」
「Though one fact has been proven. As long as that women exists, not even a tiny dream can come true.」
「Forever.」


But I am pretty sure Chosen Hero is going to like what happens to Hamzura this volume.

Oh, and Aiwass has a third form.

[Callum18]

Originally Posted by shmaster

She tosses the coins around, and everything goes straight to hell.
Yeah, the Dark Side got cleaned up, but in a way not remotely close to the way Accelerator wanted.
It is so one-sided that Accel couldn't find a single ward to talk back while Anna completely trash talks over him.

「There's not a single ward.」
「Though one fact has been proven. As long as that women exists, not even a tiny dream can come true.」
「Forever.」


But I am pretty sure Chosen Hero is going to like what happens to Hamzura this volume.

Oh, and Aiwass has a third form.

What is the 3rd form?

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by shmaster

But I am pretty sure Chosen Hero is going to like what happens to Hamzura this volume.

Hahaha, so true. At least Hamazura gets to join the club with Touma and Accel.

[Inept Forum User]

Originally Posted by Endscape

Hahaha, so true. At Hamazura gets to join the club with Touma and Accel.

Spoiler for Question based on above quote and currently known/unknown information regarding the ending:

Which club did you have in mind? The shot club? The brain damage club? Or another one?

[RPG_Fanatic]

I am saying this having only read early parts of this novel. A random popped into my head seeing the Coins of Nicholas. The mana to charge them has to come from somewhere. Wouldn't it be messed up if the mana was coming from all the espers that have been rushed to the emergency room of the hospitals.