2010-11-06, 12:41 | Link #202 | |
Yuuki Aoi
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Spoiler for more health care stuff:
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2010-11-06, 13:08 | Link #203 |
Seishu's Ace
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kobe, Japan
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I know he said it - I'm just wondering if it was true. No reason to doubt him - but Tsukimi certainly seems like a more natural match for him than for Shu. It's also possible that this was the first time Kuronosuke had seen his brother show interest in a girl and just wanted to follow that thread.
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2010-11-06, 13:43 | Link #204 |
Avian Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Kuranosuke treats Tsukimi like his private dress-up doll. He takes it for granted that being "beautified" is a good thing. He doesn't ask her permission, he just does it. (Just like the way he barges uninvited into her apartment day after day.)
Tsukimi reacts with understandable embarrassment. She does not see herself as one of the "beautiful people," and is uncomfortable with being thrust forceably into that role. I thought it was also a good depiction of how the insular otaku culture reacts to apostates, people who try to "switch sides," so to speak. A mixture of jealousy and a feeling of being betrayed. Kuranosuke represents the "other," the "foreign." He has led a privileged life, blessed with wealth and good looks (and of course, a foreigner's blond hair.) He has an outgoing and overbearing personality, taking no note of politeness or courtesy. He even goes so far as to cross-dress in order to avoid the career his father has laid out for him. And, he seems completely unable or unwilling to understand Tsukimi or the other otaku girls. He doesn't recognize or particularly care when he is being rude to them, he simply bulldozes ahead without worrying about such trivialities. But, given the way that Tsukimi has insulated herself from society, perhaps this is the only way he could ever gain access to Tsukimi. She has built a wall so high around herself, no one can get in without using a bulldozer. I'm hoping the story will dig a bit deeper into the "princess" theme. For instance, why does Tsukimi need to become a beautiful princess in order to achieve fulfillment? Are appearances really that important? Kuranosuke serves as a good way to force Tsukimi out of her shell, but hopefully he can also be disabused of the notion that what Tsukimi really needs is a makeover. |
2010-11-06, 14:42 | Link #206 | |
In the Tatami Galaxy ↓
Join Date: Feb 2006
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She's uncomfortable because she does not want to be rejected by her adopted family. But she wants to be beautiful, and she says so in the first episode. She wants to be accepted into society and would have liked to be seen as a princess because it was also what her mother wanted. Her discomfort stems from a respect and reciprocation of the Amars' kindness towards her: she simply feels it would have been betrayal if she went back looking like that. I don't think the show espouses looking beautiful to achieve fulfillment; on the contrary, I think it believes that it's all right to seek to improve oneself while staying absolutely true to oneself. Tsukimi thinks that it's impossible being an otaku and a princess at the same time but the title of the series itself offers the answer: when was it not possible? It was never impossible to be oneself and yet to seek positive change. One does not have to contradict the other, and this is what Tsukimi will learn as the show progresses. I disagree that Tsukimi doesn't need a makeover: she does, but not merely physically. She needs an ideological makeover, and I love how Kuranosuke trolls the hell out of them and forces them out of their comfort zone. Frankly, I think that it's high time for Tsukimi to know that she was never anything but a princess. She's already starting to recognize her potential, and that's good.
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2010-11-06, 23:25 | Link #207 | |
ねぇ、知ってる?
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: florida
Age: 39
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Also, I live that Banba says she's "eight" years old. It took me a moment to do the math (32!), but with her size and train interests, the 8 just feels appropriate and amusing. (Most of the people I personally know who are interested in trains are kids, though I know it's a very common adult hobby, too.) |
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2010-11-07, 13:03 | Link #208 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
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episode 03 - why is it that girls have to be pretty?
This episode in particular was great, probably the best so far, not only because of Tsukimi's temporary makeover, but also because we were presented with more details of Kuranoke's life. I think I've rewatched it more than once, especially the last scenes which are my favorite part. The lovely music, the story itself---or how we explore the character's thoughts, their feelings and motivations---everything was done so well and felt extraordinarily captivating. I think it's one of the few shows that can blend the more dramatic tones with quirky humor in such a seamless manner, and still make it enjoyable. Kana Hanazawa continues to provide us such a lively and charming performance; it really surprises me how much I'm loving her voice. it does help that I like Tsukimi's character a lot, and so far, she is capturing her different mental and emotional states. I was so fond of that scene where Tsukimi was imitating a ghost (?) ---I'm not sure, but what exactly was she saying? :P---her appearance was scary and funny at the same time, and worked to the effect of creating such a memorable and hilarious scene. "~megane, megane" made me giggle... and the ending continues to grow on me, but I'm slowly getting an idea of how the lyrics relate to the underlying theme of the show. I think, we are beginning to see the fine strokes defining what Kuragehime is about, what this work is about; and this can be illustrated by Tsukimi's line right before the ED: "Why is it that girls have to be pretty". I was pondering about it, trying to connect the little dots. I think it directly points to the expectations that girls can only be seen as pretty, but it also plays with the idea that they can't remain (nor be accepted) as they are, without the beauty. This idea of beauty is actually treated as a superfluous concept; by this I mean that anyone can become beautiful with the right make-up and clothing. Kuranosuke, for example, embodies this notion of superfluous beauty because he, with the right make-up and clothing, becomes a beautiful lady even though he is male. his belief that girls deep down want to be pretty also reinforces this notion of his character, which conflicts directly with Tsukimi's values: she wants to remain (and perhaps be accepted) by how she is, not by the make-up or the clothing; this latter, I want to think, is the point the work is trying to make: although anyone can become a pretty girl, it takes an extra step to see past the make-up, and accept them by how they are. I have been unsettled by this notion that people have to change because it does not go according to their expectations. There is, underneath all, nothing really wrong about the hobbies a person may have or the way they look. it's ironic, for example, how Shuu's perception of a person completely changes due their external appearance: he can be charmed by Tsukimi's "doll-up" version and make all kind of good assumptions about her character, but at the same time be intolerant of how she normally looks, and still create an image of her. it will be really interesting how he may eventually come to terms with Tsukimi's true and real appearance, because she and the other females shouldn't be the ones to change their ways. Interestingly enough, I don't see Tsukimi as someone who lacks confidence or self-esteem. She may see Kuranosuke and the world associated to him as a distant place, and deem it as something unfit for her; perhaps, not necessarily because she believes herself to be unpretty (or unable to become beautiful), but because she is happy as she is, with the people she lives. Of course, she is probably interested in Kuranosuke's world as part of her curiosity; but she doesn't want this world to take away the happiness she already found. I think this can be illustrated by the scene where Tsukimi runs away from the mansion, fearing her appearance will ostracize her from the people she can relate the most. Her fears may as well be unfounded, but I want think the bond they have built is a very important part of herself, which she doesn't want to lose at all costs. it would be interesting to see whether the apartment building is taken down; the possibility would undoubtedly affect their lives. Last episode I was wondering if Kuranosuke's father already knew of his son's hobbies, mostly because I see Kuranosuke as someone who does not hide things from others. Cross-dressing is a strong part of himself and goes along with his interests, but I also see it as a way to express his disagreement over the expectations set upon him by his family. The fact that he shows up in female attire during a family reunion, just so he can annoy and unsettle his father, may as well serve as an example where he communicates his dissatisfaction to others. I don't necessarily think that he is running away from a set of expectations and responsibilities, as much as he is expressing his discrepancy over the path that is perhaps being forced upon him. Why should the son of a politician become a politician as well? Quote:
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Oddly enough, I don't think Tsukimi really needs to change in order to become a princess; she is already a princess as she is. ===== methinks her normal looks are better. :P |
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2010-11-07, 13:34 | Link #209 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Age: 35
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2010-11-07, 14:39 | Link #210 |
Avian Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
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I get the impression that you have a strong negative reaction to the nuns. You don't approve of their lifestyle, and you think they are a bad influence on Tsukimi. But, it was her choice to go live there, and it is her choice to keep living there. I don't think it's fair to suggest that they are forcing her in some way. And really, what they're doing is letting her be who she wants to be, or at least, who she thinks she is. And, she is happy there.
In fact, it is Kuranosuke who is trying to get her to change. He looks at her and sees something in her that she can't see herself. His plan to make her over failed, because he wasn't able to understand her properly. He didn't try to convince her, he just did what he always does, that is, barrel straight ahead and let the chips fall where they may. This strategy is just doomed to failure with someone like Tsukimi. But, I'm hoping that he will try to understand what is going on inside Tsukimi's ahead, and maybe he will be able to get through to her. Does Tsukimi really want to become a beautiful princess? Or is it just one of those dreams from childhood, like wanting to be a rock star or a pro athlete? It strikes me more as the latter. At some point we give up on those dreams. |
2010-11-07, 15:08 | Link #211 |
Seishu's Ace
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kobe, Japan
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I think it's a bit of a mistake to look for clear-cut moral distinctions in this anime. All of the characters and their dilemmas seem to be clouded and unclear - at least so far, which is one reason I hope the issue with the apartment being torn down doesn't turn the series into a melodrama. The Amars have the right to live how they want, and pursue what they're passionate about - but are they really happy living in self-imposed exile from society? Isn't their hatred of "The Stylish" and of men just another form of prejudice? Kuronosuke certainly lives by his own rules, too, which is to be applauded. But isn't he simply rebelling against his family and trying to annoy his father as much as possible - maybe in part as revenge for separating him from his mother (pure speculation on my part, I admit)? As for Tsukimi herself, isn't she in a sense taking the easy way out - surrounding herself with non-judgmental people and focusing her relationships on jellyfish instead of humans? This extends to relationships, too - Kuronosuke is really doing the Amars a favor by shaking up their complacent imprisonment and trying to get Tsukimi to be more confident in herself. But at the same time, what right does he have to barge in on their lives - uninvited - and how dare he equate Tsukimi's worth to "upgrading" her physical appearance?
My point is, like Sarai-ya Goyou - the show which preceded it on Noitamina by a season - Kuragehime is all about the subtleties and moral ambiguities of human behavior. It's not going to lend itself to easy analysis and moral judgment. My suspicion is that everyone on the show is going to be a little bit right and a little bit wrong most of the time, and usually not quite succeed in relating to each other they way they'd like to. I think it's a show that's going to reward patience and open-mindedness and occasionally frustrate by taking its time to get where it's headed.
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2010-11-07, 15:13 | Link #212 | ||
In the Tatami Galaxy ↓
Join Date: Feb 2006
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There's a popular saying, 'in Rome, act as Romans do.' The saying made it not because it was merely trite, but because there was a lot of truth in it. Tsukimi found decent people in a decent place to live in. She tries to fit in and enjoyed it in time, because who wouldn't want to continue that pacific existence? I don't think that was a mere childhood dream, especially with how central a figure her mother was to her. She kept thinking about her years after her death, and her mother clearly formed a lot of her present self, so becoming a beautiful princes isn't merely a childhood dream. I disagree with you in this count. I don't think it was also such a failure with Tsukimi. Sometimes, the only way to get through a wall is to break it with a sledgehammer. Kuranosuke's doing pretty fine in that way of his, and I'm glad, because I don't want Tsukimi to end up like her neighbors: she's much more than them. Quote:
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2010-11-07, 15:22 | Link #213 | |
Me at work
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If the nuns are really happy why are there so many taboo subjects you're not supposed to talk about? I don't think she hasn't found any happiness but she isn't perfectly happy with her life either. Me too,and the day Tsukini realises this is the day I think she'll be truely happy with herself.
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2010-11-07, 15:34 | Link #214 | |
In the Tatami Galaxy ↓
Join Date: Feb 2006
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That's precisely it! She's already a princess but does not know it yet. She's already beautiful but doesn't want to acknowledge it. Why? It's due to her 'neighborhood.' I have little doubts the Amars would throw her out if she decided to live up to her potential and the desires of her mother for her. That's the good thing about Kuranosuke, and the bad thing about him, as well - he doesn't care. But his sledgehammer will be one of the things that will tear down Tsukimi's wall that prevents herself from seeing the beauty in her. Kuranosuke's not even doing anything to Tsukimi other than a few snips. He's not shopping her face - she's already beautiful from the get-go. But there's something fundamentally different with forced contentment and a realistic striving for positive change. Forced contentment is her current condition; on the other hand, Kuranosuke offers the latter choice, albeit in his barreling way. It's like the ED - please realize that you're beautiful as you are, Tsukimi.
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2010-11-07, 15:45 | Link #215 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
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The first sequence of the first episode shows she still longs to be the princess her mother wanted her to be (although, I don't know if Tsukimi really understands what her mother meant). Still, she longs for it so it's obvious she doesn't feel like one. Tsukimi's problem is primarily of self-esteem then. There's another hint of her self-esteem issue when she puts on Kuranosuke's wig. She says people who can look good in it are practically gods. She doesn't think of herself as beautiful, but she does want to be. You can see it in her face when she looks at the mirror. But with Kuranosuke in the picture things become even more interesting. There's a question here. Well, more than one actually. What does it mean to be beautiful? Is it only about looks? or it's just a matter of attitude? And more importantly, are these two things unrelated? Kuranosuke says that every girl is born a princess. I feel this line is really important, because it's the very same line Tsukimi's mother says at the aquarium, and that can not be coincidence. Now, I doubt her mother was talking about looks really. This line is about potential, about the unbound possibilities of a child to become whatever they want to be. Kuranosuke isn't talking about looks, he too is talking about potential. Like a raw diamond, as he put it, which has the potential to become something else. Kuranosuke, then, just wants to help these wacky girls, and specially Tsukumi, to realise that potential. Of course, since he is an aspiring beautician, he's using that tools, but just looking good is not the point. Now you could object that Kuranosuke is assuming this girls are not totally happy with their life. But I think that's ok because the series does show that at least Tsukimi is not completely happy with hers. She does want to change, want to become a princess. Still, it's more complicated than that, because I don't think Tsukimi really understands what really means to be a princess. I think Tsukimi thinks too much about looks. So what is this series about? I think is about Tsukimi understanding what it really means to be a princess. That it's not just about looks or attitude, but about shaping your life in the way you want it. Some times you're content with your life as it is, but some times you need it to change, because you know that what you really want is something else.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2010-11-07 at 15:57. |
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2010-11-07, 16:14 | Link #216 |
Me at work
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To me the "neighborhood" is more of an "effect" than a "cause" , she already didn't have good self esteem before she moved in there.
If anything I think it did her some good,she probably was quite lonely in highschool,can't remember but did she have any highschool friends or are the nuns the first friend she's ever had? It was probably better for her to be around the nuns than around other people who would have just made fun of her. The danger though would be that she'd close herself and like the nuns refuse contact with "beautiful people",that's where Kuranosuke comes in.
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2010-11-07, 20:48 | Link #217 | ||
さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: in the land down under...
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Just caught up to 3 today...and at the long discussions here!
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I actually like her normal face better, and my distaste for pink had me hating the dress. But, I believe that the author may be trying to say here that the important thing is to really become someone you like, to like yourself for who you are. As was mentioned before: Quote:
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2010-11-08, 05:34 | Link #218 |
Mmmm....
Join Date: Sep 2006
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I'm glad they got 'the makeover' out of the way in the third episode. as I think that adds impact to the argument that while Tsukimi brushes up good, it's not a physical makeover she needs as much as a makeover to her self-esteem. I wonder how much what became of her mother has to do with that?
The uncle was hilarious, I almost fell off my chair when he did the 'kiraboshi'! That said, the hopping Chinese vampire business also had me in stitches. |
2010-11-09, 02:57 | Link #219 | ||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
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==== I think everyone has interesting ideas about what the meaning of a princess in this work. I think I will wait for a few more episodes before I elaborate on that. |
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2010-11-09, 19:15 | Link #220 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
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I have an idea, that with the redevelopment project stated by his brother, there will be a forced change in their lives. Now that Tsukimi has the attention from his brother…. and family, I think things are well set for a good change.
I personally feel sad when she actually tries to conform to the nuns rather then high end persons of the country. I have seen mentality like those NEETS, and it is really saddening. Episode 4 is going to be a really good episode.. I cant wait! Anyone else think that Kuronosuke is hot? I think He looks better in women's clothes than mens clothes honestly. |
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josei, noitamina, romance |
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