AnimeSuki Forums

wsheit · 2004-11-09, 02:33

So I just had the great pleasure of watching season 2 of Big-O. I hadn't watched the first half of the series for quite some time, but I remembered enough to get me along. However, while I loved the ending, it left me quite confused. Does anybody have any ideas as to exactly what was going on? Oh, I've read a theory or two and I'm currently searching for others.

The one serious theory I've found so far argued that:

Spoiler:

I've also heard people complain that the story is simply a mess because of the odd way in which it was contracted. The sheer quality of the anime, itself, seems to deny this criticism in my eyes. I think there definitely must be an explanation, albeit one that wasn't conveniently handed to viewers in the end.

So, any ideas?

Note to Mods: I have no idea whether this thread exists purely because the search function does not allow me to search for either "big" or "o" and turns up nothing for "big-o". If such a thread exists, well, do your thing.

Fronzel · 2004-11-09, 14:24

I'm terrible at this sort of thing, but I remember what one Big O page told me; that, in computer science, such a thing called "big o notation" exists, used for expressing the ammount of time it takes for an algorithm to run.

Maybe this one takes 40 years, hm?

Er....

The floodlights above the clouds over the city seem a clear symbol that the whole situation is contrived.

Forbin · 2004-11-09, 15:12

Damn server crashed and I lost my post

Big o Ending

Spoiler:

Phew! 2nd time because of dumb server is busy message.

Poops · 2004-11-09, 17:10

Wow. That's real trip man. I'd have to get pretty high to understand that.

What was the deal with the children with the barcodes that roger had flashes of?

NoSanninWa · 2004-11-09, 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by wsheit

Note to Mods: I have no idea whether this thread exists purely because the search function does not allow me to search for either "big" or "o" and turns up nothing for "big-o". If such a thread exists, well, do your thing.

There isn't one, but here's a search tip: When a show's title is made of words less than 4 letters search for the names of main characters. I searched for Roger Angel or Roger Dorothy and only found this thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poops

What was the deal with the children with the barcodes that roger had flashes of?

Those are flashes of reality. The kids are the tomatoes.

Forbin · 2004-11-09, 20:08

Out of the whole series the plot point I didn't get was RD.
We know it was Dorothy but in the 2nd season that plot point was written out. And just concentrated on Tomatoes and Mecha fights (Not that I didn't enjoy those )

wsheit · 2004-11-09, 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoSanninWa

There isn't one, but here's a search tip: When a show's title is made of words less than 4 letters search for the names of main characters.

DOH!

Anyway, I've done some searching since last night, and nobody seems to agree on exactly what the series meant. There is an entire (large) forum devoted to discussing theories at a site called Paradigm city.

In fact, there is apparently a large number of people clamoring for a third season.

In addition, the creators seem to have said that they would like to continue the story as well and have nearly admitted that it IS an incomplete work.

The two theories above are both possible, but neither seems terribly complete.

I know that I will be purchasing season 1 in the next few days to rewatch it and look for clues. One thing is certain: I really loved this whole series.

Diplomat · 2004-11-09, 20:17

so there's only two seasons? i got the first on dvd might go out and buy the second

wsheit · 2004-11-10, 10:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diplomat

so there's only two seasons? i got the first on dvd might go out and buy the second

yeah, I would wait a couple of weeks, though. The second season is supposed to come out as one package for 40-50 dollars in a couple of weeks! hope you like it

Forbin · 2004-11-10, 15:01

The only problem with your theory there wsheit is that at the end right before the reset occured

Spoiler:

That's why your theory isn't quite a good fit. The strange scene at the end is where everyone thinks there is a 3rd season.

Fronzel · 2004-11-11, 04:30

I wonder what a third season would be like....strange as hell as it may be, it did kind of have an air of finale to it.

On a tangental note, Let's all thank Cartoon Network for putting up some of the cash for Big O 2.

King Lycan · 2007-12-28, 01:54

Well doesn't seem like it has a lot of fans

I just finished watching the whole series and i love it a lot the first season was so much more interesting then the second season

Forbin · 2007-12-28, 13:58

Once a series is over and goes R1, it rarely gets talked about.

The only reason Big-O even has posts is that it is probably the first anime that was released in English before in Japanese.

1st Season - Japanese - Cancelled
2nd Season - English - Finished...but cancelled

Aquifina · 2007-12-28, 17:47

Big O was the series that actually first got me into anime, despite a youthful and brief exposure to Robotech; I thought the first season downright brilliant, and the second... well, disappointing. Actually, in my less generous moments, I'd call it a pretentious mess. The action scenes were great, along with the general "style" of the show, but what I liked the most was the interactions between Roger and Dorothy and Angel--the second season had enough of that to save it for me, and the style was still strong, but I really felt the weird plot of the second season a distraction more than anything else.

Robotnik · 2007-12-28, 20:36

Big O's still one of my favorite shows, and one of the first I collected on DVD.

There's definitely a big disjoint between the first and second seasons, due in great part to the number of years that passed between the cancellation of the first season and the production of the second. Art-wise, the reused first season footage (with everything black-outlined, as was the norm then) is jarringly out of place in the second season, when colored outlining had become typical. The writer and director had also gone onto different things, and IMO it's nearly impossible to revisit an earlier work and reconnect with that original vision, since *you* will have changed and grown in that time.

Years ago, over at the Paradigm City forums (now archived), there was also speculation that Cartoon Network (who co-produced the second season) forced story and "standards and practices" changes on the series. I don't believe anything was proven conclusively, but I'll at least point out that the smoke-filled bar where Roger meets his informant is suddenly a non-smoking zone in the second season. Makes you wonder...

As for the ending, I took it as a "life goes on" type of ending, or more precisely a "life *should* be allowed to go on" ending.

Spoiler for anyone who hasn't finished the show:

Aquifina · 2007-12-28, 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robotnik

Big O's still one of my favorite shows, and one of the first I collected on DVD.

There's definitely a big disjoint between the first and second seasons, due in great part to the number of years that passed between the cancellation of the first season and the production of the second. Art-wise, the reused first season footage (with everything black-outlined, as was the norm then) is jarringly out of place in the second season, when colored outlining had become typical. The writer and director had also gone onto different things, and IMO it's nearly impossible to revisit an earlier work and reconnect with that original vision, since *you* will have changed and grown in that time.

Years ago, over at the Paradigm City forums (now archived), there was also speculation that Cartoon Network (who co-produced the second season) forced story and "standards and practices" changes on the series. I don't believe anything was proven conclusively, but I'll at least point out that the smoke-filled bar where Roger meets his informant is suddenly a non-smoking zone in the second season. Makes you wonder...

As for the ending, I took it as a "life goes on" type of ending, or more precisely a "life *should* be allowed to go on" ending.

Spoiler for anyone who hasn't finished the show:

Your interpretation of the ending strikes me as about what I thought the ending was, although I haven't seen it in ages. I really should revisit the series, though; it certainly had its moments.

I actually thought the basic premise had great potential; if everyone really had such a case of mass amnesia, then how would individuals figure out how to get on with their lives, and re-establish their identities. And in Dorothy's case, this was especially important, because, well, she was a robot created to be a replacement for someone else. But I just thought the second season got overly infatuated with being mysterious and obscure, and swamped the characters in an increasingly convoluted plot.

All that being said, I think the series sorta ended okay; it seems clear now there won't be a season 3, but if it was just more confusion, I would see that as pointless.

dahak · 2008-09-20, 08:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forbin

That's why your theory isn't quite a good fit. The strange scene at the end is where everyone thinks there is a 3rd season.

That and Cartoon Network having apparently optioned another 26 episodes when they commissioned the second 13.

Forbin · 2008-09-20, 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by dahak

That and Cartoon Network having apparently optioned another 26 episodes when they commissioned the second 13.

Welll an option is an option. They don't have to exercise it, but they have first chance and the gig.

Robotnik · 2008-09-21, 02:53

Options usually have an "expiration date" and we may well be past that, considering how long long it's been since the end of the second series. Also, IIRC the original "anime friendly" group at Cartoon Network/Adult Swim who helped bring us the second season in the first place have moved on as well - their departure (removal?) brought us a brief period of *no* anime on AS. And frankly, CN would probably prefer to fund more of their (ugh) original shows (or a more shounen-y anime) than try to revive Big O again after five years.

OtseisRagnarok · 2008-09-21, 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robotnik

Options usually have an "expiration date" and we may well be past that, considering how long long it's been since the end of the second series. Also, IIRC the original "anime friendly" group at Cartoon Network/Adult Swim who helped bring us the second season in the first place have moved on as well - their departure (removal?) brought us a brief period of *no* anime on AS. And frankly, CN would probably prefer to fund more of their (ugh) original shows (or a more shounen-y anime) than try to revive Big O again after five years.

Well, as far as I've heard, Big O ended with the second season, and even that was never supposed to air. The creators(?) in Japan only wanted the first season, and that's it. The second season was really rushed, you can tell this much by the lack of opening credits... (But this is only a rumor I heard a while ago....)
Also, what's the significance of Paradigm City actually being New York City?

2004-11-09, 02:33	Link #1
wsheit Combating Spoiler Scum Join Date: Nov 2003 Age: 40	Big-O So I just had the great pleasure of watching season 2 of Big-O. I hadn't watched the first half of the series for quite some time, but I remembered enough to get me along. However, while I loved the ending, it left me quite confused. Does anybody have any ideas as to exactly what was going on? Oh, I've read a theory or two and I'm currently searching for others. The one serious theory I've found so far argued that: Spoiler: Angel was really the main character. Everything was going on inside her head. She had repressed memories, the world was the system trying to bring those memories back, and she kept "resetting" the system before the memories could be released. The theory goes on to explain that Roger is the key agent of this system, etc. I have difficulty buying such a theory because it doesn't explain many factors, such as the memories Roger seems to be having. But I don't know- I haven't thought much yet about whether such things could be resolved. I've also heard people complain that the story is simply a mess because of the odd way in which it was contracted. The sheer quality of the anime, itself, seems to deny this criticism in my eyes. I think there definitely must be an explanation, albeit one that wasn't conveniently handed to viewers in the end. So, any ideas? Note to Mods: I have no idea whether this thread exists purely because the search function does not allow me to search for either "big" or "o" and turns up nothing for "big-o". If such a thread exists, well, do your thing. __________________

2004-11-09, 15:12	Link #3
Forbin I'm a sucker for Harem Join Date: Aug 2004	Damn server crashed and I lost my post Big o Ending Spoiler: Big O was TV Show Angel Rosewater was the Director. The People were like the Sims. (AKA 13th Floor) They were created in a factory. At first they were created like Robots (AKA Rogers memory) but the final products were grown in a vat (AKA Tomatoes) The 'Memories' was the script. Some of the Sims broke out of the mold (Gordon Rosewater, Big Duo's Guy, Deep Throat) and were seeking the Memories so that they can control their own destiny. The Memories the Bigs were looking for were their extra powers (AKA Megaman or Digimon) and they were seeking people who had access to the Script. (Roger and the Bandage Man). Alex did NOT have access to the script so Big Fau rejected him. So he stole the script out of Dorothy's head and plugged it into Big Fau. The whole system was crashing near the end (Roger seeing the Robot Rogers and the Alternate Endings on the DVD - Him and Alex being good friends) and Angel had to send out Big Venus to reset the Grid. (AKA Tron or ST:TNG Holodeck) Roger was NOT supposed to be a main character in this version of Big O. (He wasn't a precious tomato) but was destined to live the life of a homeless person (Flashback) Angel's Diary was the basis the system created the cast from. In there Angel Loves Roger but IRL Roger married Dorothy. So Angel created a love story between her and Roger and turned Dorothy into a Robot (Explains why Dorothy is so drawn to Roger) Angel was going to cancel the show but the Real Roger and Dorothy show up and persuade her to restart the system. With Dorothy as a real person this time Phew! 2nd time because of dumb server is busy message.

2004-11-10, 15:01	Link #10
Forbin I'm a sucker for Harem Join Date: Aug 2004	The only problem with your theory there wsheit is that at the end right before the reset occured Spoiler: It shows the book with Angel Rosewater as the author and a POSTER of Big O on the wall in front of a bunch of monitors. Which then suggests Big O is a show and Angel is the director and the book is really the script. Any American TV show (unlike Anime) never intends to just end. That's why the book in the city has blank pages. Gordon asked the Maker (Real Angel) to fill in the blank pages with Memories (Script). Basically he is asking her to finish the story and end the series. Roger stops that. That's why your theory isn't quite a good fit. The strange scene at the end is where everyone thinks there is a 3rd season.

2007-12-28, 01:54	Link #12
King Lycan User Title eaten by ravenous bunnies IT Support Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Zeon Age: 33	Well doesn't seem like it has a lot of fans I just finished watching the whole series and i love it a lot the first season was so much more interesting then the second season __________________ Tumblr

2007-12-28, 13:58	Link #13
Forbin I'm a sucker for Harem Join Date: Aug 2004	Once a series is over and goes R1, it rarely gets talked about. The only reason Big-O even has posts is that it is probably the first anime that was released in English before in Japanese. 1st Season - Japanese - Cancelled 2nd Season - English - Finished...but cancelled __________________ My Favorite Anime Quotes Courtesy of Answerman of ANN: 1) By and Large...they are and ***. 2) What kind of girls do Anime Otaku males want? ..................... Female. 3) The odds are good, that the goods are odd.

2004-11-09, 14:24	Link #2
Fronzel Schmuck Join Date: Nov 2003	I'm terrible at this sort of thing, but I remember what one Big O page told me; that, in computer science, such a thing called "big o notation" exists, used for expressing the ammount of time it takes for an algorithm to run. Maybe this one takes 40 years, hm? Er.... The floodlights above the clouds over the city seem a clear symbol that the whole situation is contrived.

2004-11-09, 17:10	Link #4
Poops Viva Monster Union. Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: In a van down by the river.	Wow. That's real trip man. I'd have to get pretty high to understand that. What was the deal with the children with the barcodes that roger had flashes of?

2004-11-09, 20:08	Link #6
Forbin I'm a sucker for Harem Join Date: Aug 2004	Out of the whole series the plot point I didn't get was RD. We know it was Dorothy but in the 2nd season that plot point was written out. And just concentrated on Tomatoes and Mecha fights (Not that I didn't enjoy those )

2004-11-09, 20:17	Link #8
Diplomat Traceur Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Sydney	so there's only two seasons? i got the first on dvd might go out and buy the second

2004-11-11, 04:30	Link #11
Fronzel Schmuck Join Date: Nov 2003	I wonder what a third season would be like....strange as hell as it may be, it did kind of have an air of finale to it. On a tangental note, Let's all thank Cartoon Network for putting up some of the cash for Big O 2.

2007-12-28, 17:47	Link #14
Aquifina Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007	Big O was the series that actually first got me into anime, despite a youthful and brief exposure to Robotech; I thought the first season downright brilliant, and the second... well, disappointing. Actually, in my less generous moments, I'd call it a pretentious mess. The action scenes were great, along with the general "style" of the show, but what I liked the most was the interactions between Roger and Dorothy and Angel--the second season had enough of that to save it for me, and the style was still strong, but I really felt the weird plot of the second season a distraction more than anything else.

2007-12-28, 20:36	Link #15
Robotnik Not a member Join Date: Jan 2006	Big O's still one of my favorite shows, and one of the first I collected on DVD. There's definitely a big disjoint between the first and second seasons, due in great part to the number of years that passed between the cancellation of the first season and the production of the second. Art-wise, the reused first season footage (with everything black-outlined, as was the norm then) is jarringly out of place in the second season, when colored outlining had become typical. The writer and director had also gone onto different things, and IMO it's nearly impossible to revisit an earlier work and reconnect with that original vision, since you will have changed and grown in that time. Years ago, over at the Paradigm City forums (now archived), there was also speculation that Cartoon Network (who co-produced the second season) forced story and "standards and practices" changes on the series. I don't believe anything was proven conclusively, but I'll at least point out that the smoke-filled bar where Roger meets his informant is suddenly a non-smoking zone in the second season. Makes you wonder... As for the ending, I took it as a "life goes on" type of ending, or more precisely a "life should be allowed to go on" ending. Spoiler for anyone who hasn't finished the show: Roger's final plea to Angel is a bit on the long-winded side, but I took it to mean something along the lines of "regardless of their artificial origin (as an experiment, a show, whatever), the people of Paradigm City have as much right to continue living as anyone else." More of a "return things to normal and let us live" than a true reset to the beginning, as most people seem to read it. Unfortunately, the net effect is a reset, which leads to the "now CN can rerun it ad infinitum like any other American cartoon, where things just go on forever and ever" thinking...

2008-09-21, 02:53	Link #19
Robotnik Not a member Join Date: Jan 2006	Options usually have an "expiration date" and we may well be past that, considering how long long it's been since the end of the second series. Also, IIRC the original "anime friendly" group at Cartoon Network/Adult Swim who helped bring us the second season in the first place have moved on as well - their departure (removal?) brought us a brief period of no anime on AS. And frankly, CN would probably prefer to fund more of their (ugh) original shows (or a more shounen-y anime) than try to revive Big O again after five years.