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Nayrael · 2013-05-30, 09:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I similarly felt that Saki was impressed by badass-mode Haruto (whereas the other two with them were dismayed by it). I also had the impression in earlier episodes that Saki didn't know Haruto well. I don't think Saki was particularly interested in Haruto until he went into badass mode. I think she's attracted to alpha males.

Well, she did only send him a Friend Request only at the end of ep1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Also, while I don't think that Saki is downright bloodthirsty, she's also no pacifist. Which honestly, I find refreshing. What kind of pacifist willingly flies a weapon of mass destruction, and uses it against an enemy army?

This is why I've never liked the idea of pacifists flying big, giant mechas. I can certainly respect those who try to keep casualties (on all sides) down to a minimum, but you shouldn't be flying one of these things if you're not willing to kill an enemy soldier if necessary.

In Haruto's defense, he ain't exactly a pacifist: he likes killing Dorssians and feels remorse for their deaths.
Actually, I am not getting actual pacifist vibes from any of the characters. Even Saint Shouko finds Haruto's will to kill people a positive thing

Triple_R · 2013-05-30, 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nayrael

In Haruto's defense, he ain't exactly a pacifist: he likes killing Dorssians and feels remorse for their deaths.
Actually, I am not getting actual pacifist vibes from any of the characters. Even Saint Shouko finds Haruto's will to kill people a positive thing

Oh, I'm not criticizing any character in this show with my comment on pacifism there. Rather characters in some older mecha shows. Are you familiar with Kira Yamato?

Ledgem · 2013-05-30, 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Also, while I don't think that Saki is downright bloodthirsty, she's also no pacifist. Which honestly, I find refreshing. What kind of pacifist willingly flies a weapon of mass destruction, and uses it against an enemy army?

This is why I've never liked the idea of pacifists flying big, giant mechas. I can certainly respect those who try to keep casualties (on all sides) down to a minimum, but you shouldn't be flying one of these things if you're not willing to kill an enemy soldier if necessary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Oh, I'm not criticizing any character in this show with my comment on pacifism there. Rather characters in some older mecha shows. Are you familiar with Kira Yamato?

I figured you were harping on Kira

Kira was willing to kill, but he wasn't happy about it. I thought that was part of what made him a great character. The concept behind his actions is sort of similar to the way that real-world nations arm themselves with nuclear weapons and other military capabilities. It's not a case of having these things to use them, it's all about having them so that you don't have to use them. It's deterrence. The Gundams were pretty poor deterrence, but it was a way for Kira to get his ideology into the game. Would it have been better for him to give it up and let someone else handle the power?

Valvrave started by addressing some of those philosophes right from the start. Haruto was talking about how it would be nice if everyone got along, and L-Elf brought up the concept that you need to fight for your own interests. Gundam Seed arguably contained that philosophical difference but never really addressed it. Valvrave has positioned itself a bit better to do so.

The problem with having characters that don't react to the deaths of others is that it becomes difficult to interpret, or unrealistic. In Saki's case it almost seems like she doesn't realize what she's doing. She slashes through a mech and it blows up - does she realize that there was a person inside? It doesn't seem like it, but assuming she does, then does she care? Is she a psychopath who is so obsessed with her own fame that she's willing to kill others to achieve it?

Triple_R · 2013-05-30, 12:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ledgem

I figured you were harping on Kira

Kira was willing to kill, but he wasn't happy about it.

He took it to a bit of an extreme in Gundam Seed Destiny, imo. But that's off-topic for this thread, so...

Quote:

Valvrave started by addressing some of those philosophes right from the start. Haruto was talking about how it would be nice if everyone got along, and L-Elf brought up the concept that you need to fight for your own interests. Gundam Seed arguably contained that philosophical difference but never really addressed it. Valvrave has positioned itself a bit better to do so.

Agreed.

Quote:

The problem with having characters that don't react to the deaths of others is that it becomes difficult to interpret, or unrealistic. In Saki's case it almost seems like she doesn't realize what she's doing. She slashes through a mech and it blows up - does she realize that there was a person inside? It doesn't seem like it, but assuming she does, then does she care? Is she a psychopath who is so obsessed with her own fame that she's willing to kill others to achieve it?

To a certain extent, I think that Saki is (somewhat ironically) following Haruto's lead. Haruto was ruthless in his initial response to the Dorssian military. I think that Saki saw that as strong, admirable, and practical.

So she is being similarly ruthless towards the Dorssian military.

Nayrael · 2013-05-30, 13:05

Mind you that Dorssians are enemy that wants to kill them so Saki wouldn't really have a reason to feel enough sympathy to care about their deaths.
People in general usually don't see solider killing a soldier on battlefield (battle) equally as human killing a human in other situations (murder), even though those soldiers do have their own lives and families.

shadow1296 · 2013-05-30, 13:15

wow this conversation reminds me of a certain point in MGR revengeance,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nayrael

Mind you that Dorssians are enemy that wants to kill them so Saki wouldn't really have a reason to feel enough sympathy to care about their deaths.
People in general usually don't see solider killing a soldier on battlefield (battle) equally as human killing a human in other situations (murder)

especially when you don't see their faces on the battlefield like in mechs, you can desensitize to the fact that you are fighting other pilots (like a gundam pilot did i forget which) and believe your only fighting the machine and not the human inside

Ledgem · 2013-05-30, 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadow1296

especially when you don't see their faces on the battlefield like in mechs, you can desensitize to the fact that you are fighting other pilots (like a gundam pilot did i forget which) and believe your only fighting the machine and not the human inside

Eureka Seven also included a segment on this, where Renton grew ill after he saw the arm of an enemy pilot with a wedding band on the finger amidst the wreckage. It will be interesting to see if Valvrave brings it up at some point too.

Key Board · 2013-05-30, 14:38

Remember that Saki views herself as a vampire. She's a bit sociopathic in a way.

I'm going to say her ability empathize with humans are hindered
and if you're an enemy soldier, it probably doesn't exist

So it would be like us killing a human in a videogame.

now Haruto may have some remorse.. but it's also proven that he can drown them if he is angry enough.

Key Board · 2013-06-01, 08:51

http://daioh.dengeki.com/blog/%E6%B5...3%B4%E3%80%8D/

Saki spinoff official details from Dengeki Daioh

important notes:

This is a spinoff/sidestory. It is not an alternate universe story like say.. what Nightmare of Nunally was to Code Geass

It will be about her past and present. So it's not just a prequel.

VVV4 will make a lot of appearances

Shinhwa · 2013-06-10, 11:07

I support Saki x Haruto Ohhhh yeahh~~~ x3

DevilHighDxD · 2013-06-13, 15:24

Saki's face after the sex, look emotionless and kind of sad.

II Maestro · 2013-06-13, 15:26

Saki will give birth to OS-chan~!

NeutralZero · 2013-06-13, 15:27

Probably she also read Shouko's speech and with what happen between her and haruto she's felling guilty or conflicted...

DevilHighDxD · 2013-06-13, 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by II Maestro

Saki will give birth to OS-chan~!

How twisted can this show get now?

queenSwild · 2013-06-13, 15:35

I'm still a bit in the middle on Saki. I was confused by her "I hate everyone" attitude in her spotlight episode, but now this episode makes it clear that she REALLY yearns for a strong bond with someone. This is cool and all, but does she really have to ruin his bond with Shoko in order to get it? GAH! This make me hate her, but then the fact that she'll probably never get such a strong Haruto-Shoko bond makes me feel sorry for her.

iCK · 2013-06-13, 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeutralZero

Probably she also read Shouko's speech and with what happen between her and haruto she's felling guilty or conflicted...

This is probably true, she wouldn't be sad if she accepted Haruto...

The fact that Shoko said that she wanted the culture festival was to confess to the boy she likes.

She knows that they both have mutual feelings for each other, and her betraying one of her closest friends would make her feel like that.

Other than the glasses girl, Shoko was one of her closest things she could call a friend.

Haruto, on the other hand is a love interest for her.

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2013-06-13, 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by iCK

Other than the glasses girl, Shoko was one of her closest things she could call a friend.

After the glasses girl died, Shoko was truly alone. She was the only person Saki truly talked to. So despite her death affecting Inu more, Saki was also affected. And her loneliness resulted in this episode.

Key Board · 2013-06-13, 15:47

anyway, I think by now, we can guess that her promise to Haruto is the promise to kill him should he ever irreversibly turn into a monster

DevilHighDxD · 2013-06-13, 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Key Board

anyway, I think by now, we can guess that her promise to Haruto is the promise to kill him should he ever irreversibly turn into a monster

I don't think she can do it now, because if she did their children won't have a father.

iCK · 2013-06-13, 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Key Board

anyway, I think by now, we can guess that her promise to Haruto is the promise to kill him should he ever irreversibly turn into a monster

This is the first year of the war, the promise she was talking about in the time-skip was 213 years later. If it was 200 years later, the date would be 201 years of the war. We still need to keep watching to figure out what the exact promise was.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevilHighDxD

I don't think she can do it now, because if she did their children won't have a father.

We don't know if she isn't pregnant or not though.... Even though there was no contraception used, not all raw sex ends up in conceiving a child. Look at the wives trying to get pregnant, but have no luck.
It's called a miracle of life for a reason. For one or two sperm to reach an egg that is one hell of a travel.

2013-05-30, 13:05	Link #65
Nayrael The Faceless One Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Varaždin, Croatia Age: 33	Mind you that Dorssians are enemy that wants to kill them so Saki wouldn't really have a reason to feel enough sympathy to care about their deaths. People in general usually don't see solider killing a soldier on battlefield (battle) equally as human killing a human in other situations (murder), even though those soldiers do have their own lives and families. __________________

2013-05-30, 14:38	Link #68
Key Board Carbon Join Date: Nov 2003	Remember that Saki views herself as a vampire. She's a bit sociopathic in a way. I'm going to say her ability empathize with humans are hindered and if you're an enemy soldier, it probably doesn't exist So it would be like us killing a human in a videogame. now Haruto may have some remorse.. but it's also proven that he can drown them if he is angry enough. __________________ "Legitimacy is based on three things. First of all, the people who are asked to obey authority have to feel like they have a voice—that if they speak up, they will be heard. Second, the law has to be predictable. There has to be a reasonable expectation that the rules tomorrow are going to be roughly the same as the rules today. And third, the authority has to be fair. It can’t treat one group differently from another.” Malcolm Gladwell

2013-06-01, 08:51	Link #69
Key Board Carbon Join Date: Nov 2003	http://daioh.dengeki.com/blog/%E6%B5...3%B4%E3%80%8D/ Saki spinoff official details from Dengeki Daioh important notes: This is a spinoff/sidestory. It is not an alternate universe story like say.. what Nightmare of Nunally was to Code Geass It will be about her past and present. So it's not just a prequel. VVV4 will make a lot of appearances __________________ "Legitimacy is based on three things. First of all, the people who are asked to obey authority have to feel like they have a voice—that if they speak up, they will be heard. Second, the law has to be predictable. There has to be a reasonable expectation that the rules tomorrow are going to be roughly the same as the rules today. And third, the authority has to be fair. It can’t treat one group differently from another.” Malcolm Gladwell

2013-06-13, 15:26	Link #72
II Maestro Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Data World	Saki will give birth to OS-chan~! __________________

2013-06-13, 15:47	Link #78
Key Board Carbon Join Date: Nov 2003	anyway, I think by now, we can guess that her promise to Haruto is the promise to kill him should he ever irreversibly turn into a monster __________________ "Legitimacy is based on three things. First of all, the people who are asked to obey authority have to feel like they have a voice—that if they speak up, they will be heard. Second, the law has to be predictable. There has to be a reasonable expectation that the rules tomorrow are going to be roughly the same as the rules today. And third, the authority has to be fair. It can’t treat one group differently from another.” Malcolm Gladwell

2013-06-10, 11:07	Link #70
Shinhwa Banned Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Age: 33	I support Saki x Haruto Ohhhh yeahh~~~ x3

2013-06-13, 15:24	Link #71
DevilHighDxD Zero Two Best waifu 2018 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Living the NEET dream Age: 27	Saki's face after the sex, look emotionless and kind of sad.

2013-06-13, 15:27	Link #73
NeutralZero Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Earth	Probably she also read Shouko's speech and with what happen between her and haruto she's felling guilty or conflicted...

2013-06-13, 15:35	Link #75
queenSwild Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012	I'm still a bit in the middle on Saki. I was confused by her "I hate everyone" attitude in her spotlight episode, but now this episode makes it clear that she REALLY yearns for a strong bond with someone. This is cool and all, but does she really have to ruin his bond with Shoko in order to get it? GAH! This make me hate her, but then the fact that she'll probably never get such a strong Haruto-Shoko bond makes me feel sorry for her.