Macross Frontier - Episode 23 Discussion / Poll

[BetoJR]

ippus, see what I mean about semantics?

[CeruleaFeng]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

Rejection is as applicable to ideas and concepts, as it is to anything else. She rejected the idea of being with Alto or her idealised vision of him that was a couple steps removed from reality. Alto doesn't necessarily have to have feelings for Ranka for Ranka to reject her own feelings for him.

That's an... interesting take on the scene. I like it. Actually, I like it better than how it was first interpreted: Ranka forfeiting her love and passing the baton to Sheryl (so to speak).

[Pinkified Princess]

I'm glad that we can finally find out more about Ranka's past.. To get a better understanding of Grace and Ranshe's relationship.

=o Anyways..
My input regarding episode 23.


Ranka disappointed me in the episode, mainly her stupidity. -.-; I know shes generally a very nice kid but What was she thinking putting her and Brera at risk by just jumping out to go grab Ai-kun. She should have thought about the consequences and that who else she is putting at risk if she puts herself into danger. Forgive me if I am being too rash on her, but shes 16 year old and should act more maturely. So I couldn't help it but I yelled, "YOU IDIOT."


Yes she is an idealist and is a bit naive at times, like her wish to have vanja and humanity live in harmony. Shes a sweet kid.

But, that won't bring Mikhail back from the dead,

Change the fact that the V-infection is killing Sheryl, (Even though Grace probably infected her.)

Bring back anyone else that has died,

Change the fact that Ranka's best friend Nanase is comatose.

I think Ranka needs to empathize more, before she tries to make peace between the two different races.

I suppose Ozomo spoiled her too much, out of guilt for not protecting her family.


So now Brera is reformatted. GG?

Grace has her captured and is using her.. o_o; My only hope is that Ranka somehow over comes that and escape somehow.. Along with save Brera. o_O I wonder if Brera will live or die in the end. I hope the next episode explains how Grace and Brera survive the explosion. @_@ Somehow pull through please..

o_o; So according the conversation with Leon and Alto, Ranka was born to be so? So o.o; Does that mean that Grace, Ranshe and Mao had Ranka was an experiment? o_o Would Ranshe actually experiment on her own daughter or Ranshe had V-infection and thats how Ranka got it? For some reason she doesn't seem like someone that would do so. o_O;; And what illness does Ranshe have? The same one as Sheryl's?

Spoiler:

After this episode I'm more curious about Sheryl and Mao's connection. Yeah I understand that Grace gave her the name Sheryl Nome, but the earrings.

"They're from my dead mother."
Shes Mao's granddaughter?
Or possible daughter?


After this episode, I sympathize Sheryl more and admire her strength more. Watching the flashback of her as a child and saying it was always a dream to have dinner with a family, brought tears to me. I can understand why she doesn't trust people and assume they're giving her pity out of guilt.

After her betrayal from Grace, I can't blame her for not being able to easily trust or that she grew up without anyone to care for her. ( D= Mao, where did you vanish to? o_o Stalking Sara and Shinn? )

I wish she would trust Klan, Alto and Lucas that they're not pitying her. =o Its okay Sheryl go cry on them little orphan girl. <3333 =p You don't have to always play the strong girl all the time! -huggles-


Note: I like both Ranka and Sheryl. Both have their strengths and weaknesses.




One thing that confuses me is, if Ozomo knew Ranka's family in the past. That means he knew Grace. How come he let Grace be Ranka's manager? Why did he do anything about it before? Oh well, hopefully the next episode will answer my questions.

No comment regarding shipping.. -Walks other direction-

[dahak]

Originally Posted by glyph

"I love Ranka so much I would like to kill her" makes absolutely no sense.

Unless you are Kazuki Tachibana.

Alto has yet to start wearing underwear on his head.

[Teletha]

Originally Posted by glyph

I love Ranka so much I would like to kill her" makes absolutely no sense.

My take is more that he liked her, protected her and fought for her, BUT if she is a threat to all that he loves now then he'll kill her. People equating him killing her to the highest form of dokun dokun true love because he would kill her before she became a tool just makes no sense to me. For one he never said that and for another, this is a guy who did everything in his power to save his friends (like Luca) and with Ranka he just gives up? If she was a tool would Ozma or Brera kill her? I don't think they would. Look at the parallels. Brera told Ranka he'd protect her with his life this episode. Ozma gave up his life and the woman he loved for Ranka while she was growing up. Alto saying he'll kill her if she threatens what he cares about is not love.

And no I don't buy the reasoning that because Alto is willing to kill her he loves her more. It's selfish. It's an excuse. Klan asking the question she asked was not her asking if Alto loved Ranka, but if that was a form of love to him. Killing someone he cared about to protect other people he cares about now.

In that scene he just admitted that Ranka is no longer the person he would protect above all others, not that he loved her enough to kill her. She's no longer his sole reason for flying or fighting. When he joined SMS he didn't like Frontier, didn't know Sheryl and was mad at his father and yes was running away and looking for an excuse to fly. In comes damsel in distress Ranka, but now his priorities have changed. Just like Ranka moved on from Alto being the sole reason she sung and her sole form of support. The only person who listens to her is no longer Alto, but Brera. Brera understood Ranka better then Alto ever did and was willing to go against everything to give her what she dreamed.

Originally Posted by golthin

Rejection? She just gave up!

She was rejected when he picked Frontier and Sheryl over her. Alto could have gone to Ranka by now if he loved her so much. He didn't. Using Sheryl as an excuse he can't go because he's tied down doesn't work. Is his "pity' for Sheryl and his love for Frontier more then his love for Ranka? Yes. So, she was rejected. Her ideals, herself and her dream. Lucky for her, she's got a good oniichan.

[golthin]

Originally Posted by Teletha

She was rejected when he picked Frontier and Sheryl over her. Alto could have gone to Ranka by now if he loved her so much. He didn't. Using Sheryl as an excuse he can't go because he's tied down doesn't work. Is his "pity' for Sheryl and his love for Frontier more then his love for Ranka? Yes. So, she was rejected. Her ideals, herself and her dream. Lucky for her, she's got a good oniichan.

no offense, but who said anything about rejection from Alto! the argument was abouit RANKA rejecting Alto. Of course that was not what the original poster meant! he was using the word reject as "Ranka rejected her feelings for Alto" which in my opinion is a very obscure way of
putting it.

[hakuren]

I would like to point this out, Sheryl only opened the door after Alto finished talking about him protecting Ranka, and has gone on talking about the fact that he will kill her, so in my opinion, Sheryl cried mostly because she found out that Ranka is going to be killed.

Perhaps she also thought that Alto liked Ranka, due to the fact that she thought Alto was only nice to her out of pity.

As for Alto's conversation with Klan, notice that she used the word 'ai' instead of 'koi', which she always uses to talk about her relationship with Michel, as for the word 'ai', it means love, but not necessarily in romantic relationships, the word 'koi' is more often used for romantic relationship. So I'm guessing that she is only refering to Alto's love for Frontier.

And Alto joining SMS to protect Ranka? That is just so not like him, I mean, what about the dude that got squashed in the beginning? I don't get what Kawamori is trying to achieve here. (Maybe just to balance the triangle which is supposed to last til the last ep but had apparently collapsed in ep 22?)

So, both Sheryl and Ranka's fan shouldn't fall for the troll, the stupid triangle will not be resolved until the very end. And both girls have a fair chance of winning, Ranka fans can look forward the reunion of Alto and Ranka, by then we will know if Alto's feelings of protection towards Ranka is love, as for Sheryl, her current state kind of reminds me of Misa Hayase in SDFM (before the last episode, even the Misa fans are pretty pessimistic and thought Hikaru will end up with Minmay), and Sheryl still haven't confessed to Alto yet, which puts her at an advantage because Ranka's already confessed and we've seen absolutely no reaction from Alto.

Between Ranka's return and Sheryl's confession, I'd say whichever comes later has a better chance of winning.

[Supah Em]

Originally Posted by golthin

Ranka doesn't have to worry about, she had Ozma and her brother to defend her, two guys that can surely kick Alto's behind!

I'd seriously go if Alto somehow manages to get into a dogfight against Ozma and Brera and he manages to win. I'll blame Bleach and Naruto for this

[golthin]

Originally Posted by hakuren

So, both Sheryl and Ranka's fan shouldn't fall for the troll, the stupid triangle will not be resolved until the very end. And both girls have a fair chance of winning, Ranka fans can look forward the reunion of Alto and Ranka, by then we will know if Alto's feelings of protection towards Ranka is love, as for Sheryl, her current state kind of reminds me of Misa Hayase in SDFM (before the last episode, even the Misa fans are pretty pessimistic and thought Hikaru will end up with Minmay), and Sheryl still haven't confessed to Alto yet, which puts her at an advantage because Ranka's already confessed and we've seen absolutely no reaction from Alto.

Between Ranka's return and Sheryl's confession, I'd say whichever comes later has a better chance of winning.

actually, Ranka is the underdog here, Ranka has more in common with Hayase than with Sheryl.
the big difference is that sheryl has the sickness card which give her a big advantage over ranka!
I don't think Ranka has a chance and she winning only can happen if sheryl actually dies. But i can see why most people think Ranka=Minmay, the way she met Hikaru has more in common with the way Ranka and Alto met!

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by Supah Em

I'd seriously go if Alto somehow manages to get into a dogfight against Ozma and Brera and he manages to win. I'll blame Bleach and Naruto for this

Bresra is under mindcontrol, and Ozma is technically no longer one of the good guys at this point. Alto is the closest thing the series has to a protagonist now. How sad is that?

[grss1982]

Originally Posted by Supah Em

I'd seriously go if Alto somehow manages to get into a dogfight against Ozma and Brera and he manages to win. I'll blame Bleach and Naruto for this

What if they go the Macross Zero route?

Imagine......

Spoiler for A bit spoilerish for those who have not yet watched Macross Zero:

Brera = Nora

In MF, Brera chases Alto around until suddenly Brera gets zapped from behind by a random Vajra main cannon shot or heck even by the Battle Frontier itself.

Ozma = D.D.

In MF, Alto and Ozma fight for a while then suddenly Ozma sees Cathy & the rest of Macross Quarter vaporized by Battle Frontier's Main Cannon and he suddenly goes all psycho on Battle Frontier and thus gets pwn3d by multiple anti-mecha batteries.

NOTE: The above was just my imagination running amok.

[Wesley84]

Anti-mech cannons actually doing their job? It sure as hell was your imagination.

[Paul Hausser]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

Anti-mech cannons actually doing their job? It sure as hell was your imagination.

It was, definitely. There is no way a capital ship can successfully destroy a small fighter carrying any named character on board. As proven by past examples, it is impossible. Only another fighter, with another named character can do that.

And in anime, that syndrome is even more prominent, than in any Western movie. Guess the Japanese subconsciously still dream of Prince of Wales and Repulse.

[ashesatdusk]

You know I seriously think Sheryl's the real protagonist in this story. Total tragic hero, out to save the world even though she's dying. If leon's twist on the story is right (which I doubt) ranka becomes the final boss the tool of the vajara, and sheryl the tool of the frontier. I really feel sorry for her sheryl.

I suspect Leon's predictions about Ranka's role will be wrong and she'll be the hero in the end. The story will end up Alto x Ranka. I'll seriously have a love hate relationship with this series, because I find Ranka really annoying, and immature. Ranka is totally comes up as more stereotype and I totally hate that.

Personally I'd prefer to have another anime cliche where everyone dies ranka gets killed by alto, sheryl by the V-Disease, alto gets K.I.A. (maybe Brera).

[Wesley84]

No, Sheryl isn't the goddamn hero of the story. She's the fill-in making a pity play for story relevancy.

I'll seriously want to kill Ranka if she's given up in the next episode. She's finally made a worthwhile decision, and taken action. If she mopes around, waiting for Sheryl to give her another goddamn fate speech, instead of taking responsiblity for her actions, even if it KILLS HER, that's pretty much it for her character. It's crunch time. End Game. There is no next level, and everyone's down to their last continue, with no password scripting or save batteries available. Do something Ranka even if it doesn't seem to work!

Unfortunately I doubt it. Ranka's weakness and dependency is THE cornerstone of Sheryl's existence. If Ranka actually manages to kick ass and chew bubblegum, what's the point to the f-ing Fairy besides chasing after Alto the entire series? There isn't one!

What a garbage series.

[Saotome Sheriru]

The episode itself, in my opinion, was pretty excellent. It's really interesting how far Alto has come, as small of a step as some might think. The episode was also painful as well, because I feel for Sheryl, but I had to vote for the episode for its overall quality and development for EVERYONE.

On a similar note, Macross Frontier is a wonderful anime. I absolutely LOVE the twists and turns... but at the same time, loathe them. The characters are highly developed and automatically catch anyone's attention. That's a big + for me

Go go Sheryl! Hang in there, babe <3

[indr0008]

Originally Posted by Saotome Sheriru

The episode itself, in my opinion, was pretty excellent. It's really interesting how far Alto has come, as small of a step as some might think. The episode was also painful as well, because I feel for Sheryl, but I had to vote for the episode for its overall quality and development for EVERYONE.

On a similar note, Macross Frontier is a wonderful anime. I absolutely LOVE the twists and turns... but at the same time, loathe them. The characters are highly developed and automatically catch anyone's attention. That's a big + for me

Go go Sheryl! Hang in there, babe <3

which part that u loathe?

[BetoJR]

I think she means that, as a story, the developments are great. But, as pertains the characters, particularly the ones we care about, they can also be painful to watch. But that's what good drama is all about, anyway.

[Saotome Sheriru]

Originally Posted by BetoJR

I think she means that, as a story, the developments are great. But, as pertains the characters, particularly the ones we care about, they can also be painful to watch. But that's what good drama is all about, anyway.

Yes. Thank you for summing that up for me ^^

[Sinestra]

Finally got around to watching the episode pretty decent. I laughed my ass off when Ranka was like "Ai-kun tell them we dont want to fight" and then he eyes start glowing red and he snatch her up. Other than the that the backround on Ranka was nice we are starting to learn more about her past, but what role will she play now that the Vajara have captured her.

The scenes with Sheryl and Alto were very cute. Especially Sheryl laying on the couch raising her arms up like a kid asking Alto to pick her up lol. At this point we can see how much love Sheryl has for Alto and its obvious at this point that Alto has had feelings for both Ranka and Sheryl. I have watched the scene with Klan and Alto 3 times and i still dont know what to make of that "is that your love Alto?" comment. This late in the game and given everything that has happen it would be very weird for Alto to chose Ranka and now Sheryl's saying "i knew it" i dont know how to that. Sheryls death flags are waving in the wind but deep in my gut i have a feeling that in the end she wont die. They can milk so much more merchandise from Sheryl if they dont kill her. Plus we still need to get our Sheryl and Ranka duet performance. I thought Sheryl's decision to not take the medicine so her voice would be more potent aganist the vajara was admirable.

The new president has lost his DAMN MIND he is taking the fleet to the Vajara homeworld in the condition its in oh this is going to get bloody. I dont know why he thinks an all out attack on the Vajara in their weakened condition is a good idea but its NOT the enemy is lodged in that system. They basically have the position Stonewall Jackson had the civil war just as his name implies a Stonewall removing the Vajara from that planet wont be easy and its going to be costly.

Not sure whats going to happen but this has been a great series and Grace is just the coolest baddie ever. Seems shes not too found of the Vajara either i cant wait to see what her end game goal is.