Cuteness vs. Hotness. You decide thread

[Narona]

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

2) The traditionalist/purist definition: The girl (or guy) starts out cold, but eventually thaws out to reveal his/her sweet side.

That's what I thought about the Tsundere. So from my pov I don't see any problem if those people are like that. If a person manages to break the ice, maybe the Tsundere are even more faithful than the average persons with those who managed to make them reveal their sweet side ?_?

I kinda like to think that XD. To share their sweet side only with the one they love. It's romantic <_<

[ganbaru]

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

From what I remember of the Lucky Channel segments, there are two definitions of tsundere:
1) The common definition: This is what many recent fans think of as a tsundere. Instant swinging between cold and sweet, randoms acts of violence (I assume that real life tsundere would avoid this), etc.
2) The traditionalist/purist definition: The girl (or guy) starts out cold, but eventually thaws out to reveal his/her sweet side.

The question is, which does Vexx refer to? Personally I think having a relationship with either would be a testament to one's relationship skillz.

I must say than most of the time I forgot the traditional definition and think about the common one. For the traditional Tsundere, I think it could work, but it may depend how much she go sweet/lovely. I got one example in mind of a Tsundere than had gone that sweet/lovely than it let me wondering if she was one at the first place.

[0utf0xZer0]

I think it's important to remember that there's also more than one type of tsundere. For example, if you get brushed off by someone, is it because that person is a loner? Insecure? Playing hard to get? Any of those could manifest into tsundere personality traits.

So the answer to Narona's question - do they form tighter bounds with those that break the ice - is probably dependent on the type of tsundere. I do think it's probably try for the loner-ish types, though (which tend to be my favourite in fiction).

Still interested in what kind of tsundere Vexx meant, though.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

I think it's important to remember that there's also more than one type of tsundere. For example, if you get brushed off by someone, is it because that person is a loner? Insecure? Playing hard to get? Any of those could manifest into tsundere personality traits.

So the answer to Narona's question - do they form tighter bounds with those that break the ice - is probably dependent on the type of tsundere. I do think it's probably try for the loner-ish types, though (which tend to be my favourite in fiction).

Still interested in what kind of tsundere Vexx meant, though.

He probably meant something like Kagami from LS.

Give me a tsunloli anyday!! (most of them are voiced by Rie Kugimiya)

[Narona]

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

I think it's important to remember that there's also more than one type of tsundere. For example, if you get brushed off by someone, is it because that person is a loner? Insecure? Playing hard to get? Any of those could manifest into tsundere personality traits.

So the answer to Narona's question - do they form tighter bounds with those that break the ice - is probably dependent on the type of tsundere. I do think it's probably try for the loner-ish types, though (which tend to be my favourite in fiction).

Does brushing off people mean to be Tsundere? I am one of them then /kidding

I don't think it's only the loner-ish types. If you don't give your trust easily, it doesn't necessarily mean that you want/like to be alone. It could also be 'cos you are not interested by the majority of the kinds of people who try to hit on you / befriend you.

[Vexx]

Most real life Tsundere are "crunchy on the outside, creamy on the inside". The two facets exist simultaneously but only certain people get to see the creamy at the right times.

I'd clearly classify my wife as that sort and we've been married, um, 30 years by next summer? Her personality is a lot like, for example:
Kagami (LS), Hazuki (TMP), etc. She isn't so much like, say, Taiga (ToraDora!) because that girl has a basket full of issues ladled over the stereotype.
Wife is, however, small/petite like all those characters which helps to accentuate the similarity to "lolitsundere".

Actually she's so much like Kagami even *she* pointed that out before I said anything ...

[0utf0xZer0]

This is starting to get to the point where I'm wondering if we need to spin this off into a thread about tsundere...

@Narona:
Merely brushing someone off doesn't make you a loner. The two things that define a loner type for me are the frequency with which they brush people off and the unfriendliness with which they do so. For example, one my favourite traditional tsundere-loner type characters at one point transfers into a new class, listens to people ask her questions for about a minute (hey, she is the new girl), and then tells them in a nasty tone of voice "shut up, you're being annoying". It takes her a while to really warm up to most people (Exception: she actually is grateful to the lead male character for helping her right from the start, so he and the audience are both aware of her "dere" side.).
Besides, even if you are a loner, that just means you have the "tsun" element. What about a "dere" element?

@Vexx:
I'm not that surprised to see you using Kagami as an example. It's probably intentional because she's the "straight man" character, but I always found her cynicism (the "tsun" element) to be quite similar to a number of people I know. I think it's interesting to note that she has the same name as Lucky Star's author.

Hazuki, though... I have a bit more trouble seeing as a real person. From what I remember, she went from ungrateful, high and mighty, agressive, and posessive, to merely being aggressive and possessive - which, interestingly enough, makes her both a traditional tsundere and a common tsundere in one. I could see her maturing into someone like Kagami with a competitive streak, but from what I saw she acted far too much her age at the end of the show to be a flattering comparison.

[Vexx]

The comparison with Hazuki was more along the lines of the couple bickering a lot but at the end of the day its all okay... other aspects of her personality are, as you say, a bit age-related since she's been alone and lacks some social skills Kagami does indeed come quite close as a fictional character can be... even the "hard studying good school girl" part...

but yes, we're digressing. Back on topic..... I guess I just view "hot" almost as a turn-off. Example: Carmen Electra is supposedly "hot" ... I find her media presence completely plastic and unappealing (she may be quite okay offscreen). I'm trying to think of an American star/actress I find cute but nothing is coming up at the moment other than the ship's engineer on Firefly (Jewel Staite as Google informs me).

[Narona]

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

@Narona:
Merely brushing someone off doesn't make you a loner.

It was a joke . I don't know if I am a loner or a tsundere and it is not important ^^. It's just that I brushed off many people IRL and don't have a lot of friends (i mean true friends) because only a few successed to break the ice with me so your comment made me think about it

The two things that define a loner type for me are the frequency with which they brush people off and the unfriendliness with which they do so. For example, one my favourite traditional tsundere-loner type characters at one point transfers into a new class, listens to people ask her questions for about a minute (hey, she is the new girl), and then tells them in a nasty tone of voice "shut up, you're being annoying". It takes her a while to really warm up to most people (Exception: she actually is grateful to the lead male character for helping her right from the start, so he and the audience are both aware of her "dere" side.).

Well, finding that annoying is not a problem (it can be annoying), but saying it by shouting "shut up" would only cause possible problems to that person, so it would be a bit stupid to say that so bluntly xD.

Besides, even if you are a loner, that just means you have the "tsun" element. What about a "dere" element?

My mom is a bit like that. She can be cold like an iceberg, and only shows her true sweet side to her family (romantically speaking, only to her husband ).

[0utf0xZer0]

Originally Posted by Vexx

The comparison with Hazuki was more along the lines of the couple bickering a lot but at the end of the day its all okay... other aspects of her personality are, as you say, a bit age-related since she's been alone and lacks some social skills

Okay, that makes sense.

And dare I say it?

...Awww.

Originally Posted by Vexx

I'm trying to think of an American star/actress I find cute but nothing is coming up at the moment other than the ship's engineer on Firefly (Jewel Staite as Google informs me).

As a Firefly fan hailing from Vancouver, Canada, I'd just like to point out that Jewel Staite isn't American.

I do agree that she's cute though. Which is interesting when you consider that Whedon specifically wanted Kaylee not to look like an actress (she actually had to gain weight for the part).

Actually, as a random aside, Whedon originally envisioned her character as being Asian (I'm assuming he meant this in the North American sense of the word, not the UK sense).

[Vexx]

my bad on the poor grammar (I knew she was Canadian) but I generally say "American" when I'm referring to the entire continent (technically correct but everyone assumes "USAian"). I should put "North" in front of it when posting...

That would have been a very interesting spin with an asian character (considering all the Chinese referencing)... any Canadian actresses of Chinese vintage we should know about who'd meet the "cute" criterion? (PM if you think that's too off-topic).

[0utf0xZer0]

I decided to reply to Vexx via PM, but if there's any Firefly fans here interested in discussing how Kaylee was originally supposed to be Asian or the Chinese elements of the show in general, please PM me. I'd be interested in hearing from you.

[Larthak]

Back to topic. Let's see...

A hot woman makes you go "wow", but for how many years, right? On the other hand, cute women make you smile, having that "aww, she's cute." state of mind and this characteristic is not age-restricted. Cute all the way.

Of course, meeting someone who is both hot and cute would be the best, but let's say it's more of a luck than a preference.

[Synria_]

I did not read through 15 pages.. but to answer OP question, Cuteness means you are looking at the face mostly. While hotness can go from face, but usually means body...

[C.A.]

In the land of super cuteness, a cute face is not enough. To be cute, your actions, etiquette, speech dress sense, personality etc. must be cute enough. There's a reason someone came up with the sweet lolita style.

[cloak_and_dagger]

If I may ask, how do such a large cross section of people find 12 year old schoolgirls(loilis) like, attractive or alluring? I know some people who do and it confuses me. Don't get me wrong, I'm not frowning upon it(though i do find it weird), i just don't understand it.

[k'2]

cuteness is my choice

because cuteness means hot to you and some people think fat people are hot and i am not one of them though then we may say that hotness is somehow individual but cute is like that too but in lesser cases

[C.A.]

Originally Posted by cloak_and_dagger

If I may ask, how do such a large cross section of people find 12 year old schoolgirls(loilis) like, attractive or alluring? I know some people who do and it confuses me. Don't get me wrong, I'm not frowning upon it(though i do find it weird), i just don't understand it.

One quality that we asians are proud of is that our ladies can look very young. And to the west, Asian girls have always looked like kids.

Looking young and looking cute is a great quality we like. If Asian men can like western girls, I'm sure western men can like asian girls.

Is it wrong to like hotness? Cuteness? There's nothing wrong. Its just a matter of preference.

If I go deeper, I may have to start explaining with neuro science.

[ganbaru]

Originally Posted by C.A.

If Asian men can like western girls, I'm sure western men can like asian girls.

Someone told me once than the attraction for exotisme might be more related to a innate behavior about mixing the DNA pool , but I ma not sure if he was right.

[Narona]

But what makes people decide that a woman looks hot?

Her good looking body? The clothes shes wears? The personnality she has (like saying "I am so hot" with a glamorous voice, and hunting men all the days???) ????

If it's just the body, what about a girl who is good looking but with a cute personality (shy personality for example)? In which category those persons are?

And what about asking the girls if they like to be "categorized" as hot, cute or whatever by the other people Did you ever do it IRL XD


I want answers guys