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Vegard Aune · 2013-10-28, 07:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wanderer

The story is all such a mess now. I suppose there is still a lot of potential for interesting things to happen, considering Homura's world is clearly unstable in many ways.

But how can we take what happens to any other characters seriously anymore? A major character having her head bitten off early in a new Madoka series wouldn't have much impact at all. We're on the god-level of scope here, and we can't go back.

*sigh*

Oh and also there's this factor; What is really the ultimate conclusion that all of this can possibly end up with? The universe being repeatedly overwritten until Homura or Madoka are dead at which point the winner's universe gets to be the one that stays? You know, while on the whole I would sooner compare this movie to End of Evangelion (except EoE at least had some justification to exist, in that the TV-series had plenty of mysteries unresolved by the end... PMMM was clearly a complete story) this one aspect is feeling distinctly 3.33-ish... And I think I finally kinda get why Rebuild is so hated by people who loved the original NGE.

Again though, to me this movie is no more than a professionally produced fanfic. And a disgustingly bad one at that. Madokami saving every Magical Girl in history and writing the witches out of existence is still how the story ended as I'm concerned. Keep your Happy Ending Override Shinbo and Urobuchi, I'm keeping my wonderful stand-alone 12-episode TV-series about hope ultimately triumphing over despair.

Jimmy C · 2013-10-28, 08:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Here is arguably the one positive to Gen not writing future PMMM anime stories - You're much less likely to get dark just for the sake of getting dark.

Gen was never about dark for darkness sake. He always had a point about the darkness.
Give PMMM to another writer now, and it's highly likely they'll miss that point and go dark for darkness sake, because they think that's what the series is supposed to be about.

Kazu-kun · 2013-10-28, 08:22

I will do like Urobuchi and say that the story of Homura and Madoka ends here. In my opinion Urobuchi's always been the actual author, so whatever other writers do with these characters (if someone ever do a continuation) is irrelevant to me.

Triple_R · 2013-10-28, 08:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy C

Gen was never about dark for darkness sake. He always had a point about the darkness.

Gen tends towards darkness just like Stephen King tends towards horror stories. Both writers will make points with their stories, but that doesn't change the fact that they favor darkness/horror over lighter or more optimistic works. So there is an element of being dark just for the sake of being dark.

I don't think you'd ever get a conventional magical girl story out of Gen because of his tendency towards "dark". SHAFT might get it out of a different writer.

Quote:

Give PMMM to another writer now, and it's highly likely they'll miss that point and go dark for darkness sake, because they think that's what the series is supposed to be about.

I disagree. For simple commercial reasons. SHAFT knows what most Madoka Magica fans want, and contrary to what some people believe, it's not grimdark endings.

Tell me, why do you think these two scenes are in the movie?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I will do like Urobuchi and say that the story of Homura and Madoka ends here. In my opinion Urobuchi's always been the actual author, so whatever other writers do with these characters (if someone ever do a continuation) is irrelevant to me.

So what if there's a sequel to this 3rd Madoka Magica movie and it gets rave reviews? Are you going to ignore it just out of spite?

Also, I'm certainly glad the comic book fandom never took this attitude to Jerry Siegel, Joe Shuster, Bob Kane, Stan Lee, and Jack Kirby's creations...

woxx · 2013-10-28, 08:37

Every Urobuchi work is just average or even below average far behind Madoka in Japan. The smallest thing in Madoka's success is Urobuchi. (And the whole Madoka Magica idea belongs to Shinbo) It was obvious if Aniplex(or Shaft) wants more money, he would be forced to rewrite scenario to make more profit.

Kazu-kun · 2013-10-28, 08:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

So there is an element of being dark just for the sake of being dark.

His works are "dark" because the guy's a total cynic and has the pathological need to showing it in pretty much everything he does.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I don't think you'd ever get a conventional magical girl story out of Gen

That much is absolutely true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

So what if there's a sequel to this 3rd Madoka Magica movie and it gets rave reviews? Are you going to ignore it just out of spite?

If it's really good I might watch it. I'm not that stubborn. lol I don't care about reviews though. I prefer reading spoilers and drawing my own conclusions.

woxx · 2013-10-28, 08:53

And it's absolutely wrong to judge the movie without even watching it.
Seems like two guys, who watched the movie here, enjoy it.

Kazu-kun · 2013-10-28, 09:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by woxx

And it's absolutely wrong to judge the movie without even watching it.

Well, plot and characterization are more important than artwork, animation and music to me, so I probably wouldn't change my mind even after watching it. To each their own.

zato_1one · 2013-10-28, 09:53

Now, I'm confused. So, did Gen like or not like the ending? Are they even reading from the same interview?

Still need to watch the movie and see how things turn out. I'd say that execution is the most important. Even if the plot is good but without a good execution then it will still be bad or just mediocre, IMO.

Triple_R · 2013-10-28, 10:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Well, plot and characterization are more important than artwork, animation and music to me, so I probably wouldn't change my mind even after watching it. To each their own.

Characterization is shaped by more than just what's wrote on paper. Seiyu performance, and how the anime Director chooses to frame the character, are important as well.

Sayaka's characterization is shaped just as much by Eri Kitamura's seiyu performance, and by how Shinbo framed Sayaka's rise and fall, as it is by what Gen wrote on paper.

Maybe Chiwa Saito will nail Homura's descent into megalomania/madness just as well as Eri Kitamura nailed Sayaka's descent into darkness and despair in the original TV series.

Kazu-kun · 2013-10-28, 10:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Characterization is shaped by more than just what's wrote on paper. Seiyu performance, and how the anime Director chooses to frame the character, are important as well.

True, but not so much that it would change my mind. Again, to each their own.

Anyway, let's just leave it at that, okay?

KleenexGhost · 2013-10-28, 10:17

Out of Homura's motivations I see resentment as one. She loves Madoka, yet she hates the fact that even after she goes so far to try and save her multiple times Madoka still ends up dying. (Well she ascended to a higher plane of existence in the snow's finale) In Homura's mind she could view that as Marina leaving her behind, or abandoning her. She hates that Madoka left her behind to watch over the world. So now she creates her "perfect" world for Madoka. To ensure that she'll never leave her again.

Triple_R · 2013-10-28, 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Anyway, let's just leave it at that, okay?

Well, I just hope that you'll at least watch the movie to get a more complete take on it. I could understand being peeved to the point of not bothering seeing it in theaters, but once it's available on Blu-Ray/DVD (and/or internet download), I hope you'll check it out.

maximilianjenus · 2013-10-28, 10:40

I will just leave this here:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...00-million-yen

Triple_R · 2013-10-28, 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by maximilianjenus

I will just leave this here:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...00-million-yen

I'm very pleased to see both Madoka Magica and PreCure do well. It's truly an epic time for a magical girl fan in Japan.

I'm curious how Madoka Magica Rebellion's opening weekend compares to the opening weekend for the first two Madoka Magica movies. Does anybody have any numbers for that?

Kazu-kun · 2013-10-28, 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Well, I just hope that you'll at least watch the movie to get a more complete take on it.

Of course I'm going to watch it. I never said I wasn't going to. In fact, weren't we talking about a tv series continuation? Mmmm, I'm kinda confused now.

ChronoReverse · 2013-10-28, 11:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Of course I'm going to watch it. I never said I wasn't going to. In fact, weren't we talking about a tv series continuation? Mmmm, I'm kinda confused now.

From what I've heard, Rebellion is a great movie. It's the epilogue thingy that's dividing.

omimon · 2013-10-28, 11:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by maximilianjenus

I will just leave this here:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...00-million-yen

So how does this compare to history? Eva scored more I believe.

bhl88 · 2013-10-28, 11:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by omimon

So how does this compare to history? Eva scored more I believe.

Evangelion is a brand name. You expect Madoka to score higher?

Sol Falling · 2013-10-28, 12:13

Numbers for the first two Madoka films:
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...ce-october-6-7
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...-october-13-14

Numbers for Eva 3.0:
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...office-of-2012

The first two Madoka movies were conservative showings which initially opened on only 43 theatres. Combined with being recaps, Rebellion's numbers show an (expected) marked improvement but can't really be compared directly.

Rebellion's opening puts it somewhere in between the openings for Evangelion 1.0 and Evangelion 2.0, but also as expected Evangelion is obviously stronger as a franchise.

2013-10-28, 08:22	Link #463
Kazu-kun Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006	I will do like Urobuchi and say that the story of Homura and Madoka ends here. In my opinion Urobuchi's always been the actual author, so whatever other writers do with these characters (if someone ever do a continuation) is irrelevant to me. __________________

2013-10-28, 09:53	Link #469
zato_1one Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006	Now, I'm confused. So, did Gen like or not like the ending? Are they even reading from the same interview? Still need to watch the movie and see how things turn out. I'd say that execution is the most important. Even if the plot is good but without a good execution then it will still be bad or just mediocre, IMO. __________________

2013-10-28, 10:17	Link #472
KleenexGhost Riding the Ange Express Join Date: May 2012 Location: Sunriseland	Out of Homura's motivations I see resentment as one. She loves Madoka, yet she hates the fact that even after she goes so far to try and save her multiple times Madoka still ends up dying. (Well she ascended to a higher plane of existence in the snow's finale) In Homura's mind she could view that as Marina leaving her behind, or abandoning her. She hates that Madoka left her behind to watch over the world. So now she creates her "perfect" world for Madoka. To ensure that she'll never leave her again. __________________ "You know what these are, Mom? They're gazebos! They're BULLSH*T!" - Eddie Kaspbrak

2013-10-28, 08:37	Link #465
woxx Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: eastern europe :(	Every Urobuchi work is just average or even below average far behind Madoka in Japan. The smallest thing in Madoka's success is Urobuchi. (And the whole Madoka Magica idea belongs to Shinbo) It was obvious if Aniplex(or Shaft) wants more money, he would be forced to rewrite scenario to make more profit.

2013-10-28, 08:53	Link #467
woxx Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: eastern europe :(	And it's absolutely wrong to judge the movie without even watching it. Seems like two guys, who watched the movie here, enjoy it.

2013-10-28, 10:40	Link #474
maximilianjenus [E] Join Date: Mar 2008	I will just leave this here: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...00-million-yen

2013-10-28, 12:13	Link #480
Sol Falling Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Age: 35	Numbers for the first two Madoka films: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...ce-october-6-7 http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...-october-13-14 Numbers for Eva 3.0: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...office-of-2012 The first two Madoka movies were conservative showings which initially opened on only 43 theatres. Combined with being recaps, Rebellion's numbers show an (expected) marked improvement but can't really be compared directly. Rebellion's opening puts it somewhere in between the openings for Evangelion 1.0 and Evangelion 2.0, but also as expected Evangelion is obviously stronger as a franchise.