AnimeSuki Forums

HazardousWaste · 2009-01-27, 03:47

id like to voice my own opinion here. i personally think that makoto was generally oblivious to the consequences of his actions and passed up his best chance at living a happy life by not slowing down and stopping to think about who had true feelings for him. he seemed like a really dense guy because if you look at it, its not that kotonoha didnt want to do it with him, but he, due to sekai's pushing and prodding, moved far faster than kotonoha was ready for. if he had just stopped for a moment, he wouldve realized she was the only one truly devoted to him, and had enough understanding to know that she should only let him in when she is ready herself.

frankly i think sekai is an extremely irrational person and did not deserve to have ever been with makoto. she exploited his density and used him to satisfy her own desires. she knew she could easily distract him from his true interests, and by doing so from the beginning completely destroyed him. unfortunately for makoto, he realized his mistakes far, far too late.

willyvereb · 2009-01-27, 04:38

Funny...she pushed him? Somewhat true and false...She pulled him back him and pushed forward many at once...She pushed him somewhat because she wants that the whole relationship beetween Kotonoha and Makoto would be complete as fast as possible(to calm down her heart). But Makoto in general were too pushy...if someone just mentions him that he could kiss with Kotonoha at the movie he realy tries it no matter how bad the situation...he's the one who can't stop his desires...It's true that if she ddidn't do anything then it may happen otherwise(most probably they never got together). And if she don't "seduce" him then maybe slowly he can builded up a correct relationship with Kotonoha.
But we can't forget the fact that Makoto is already burned with desires. I don't think he could endure it too long. And then he started to act more and more to his desires. Caring not for the others feelings...I don't know how he become such a man(more precisely: such a jerk), but i think if he realy loved Kotonoha then he couldn't do something like that...
I think he's just physicaly attracted to Kotonoha(big chest, kind face), and that's the same with Sekai...he just wanted sex. Nothing more nothing less...when it seemed that Sekai more willing to sex than Kotonoha he runs for her, when she become depressed he didn't care because he have replacement(from his view even better ones because they have no demands about being a boyfriend of hers).

Frankly i think you misunderstood something: Makoto used Sekai...if her desire was to have sex with Makoto then she didn't acted down just because it ended...Sekai's desire was not to have sex with Makoto but his love.
Makoto deserved to die? No...as no one deserves to die...he must have paid sensed his guilt and must have paid back to the girls somehow...perhaps that's nearly impossible for him(even his sense of guilt's awakening is a big problem).

bin1127 · 2009-01-30, 02:46

Makoto didn't really deserve to die. I didn't think anyone needed to die in fact. but after the revelation that sekai tried to help setsuna get to know Makoto it puts more blame on sekai. If someone tries that hard to stir things up they deserve a large part of the blame.

And it's not like Makoto was uber mature given how he's portrayed. He's always swept along with whatever happens. Kinda naive but shouldn't have to die. There's probably some girls in real life who cling on to guys like M and can't tear themselves away for some unknown reason. So the whole premise doesn't seem seem so out of this world.

ShatteredSkys · 2009-02-07, 18:25

Yes,
but he really don't deserved being stabbed in his hole body several times, lying on the floor crying, having a flashback accompanied by some sad music, dying slowly because of his wounds and get his head cut off by another insane girl.

Nice Boat!

xxangelchanxx · 2009-07-02, 13:20

I just wanna know why kotonoha and Sekai acted like Makoto was the last guy on earth.
There are so many other guys out there so why the manhore.

DeX-kun · 2009-07-02, 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxangelchanxx

I just wanna know why kotonoha and Sekai acted like Makoto was the last guy on earth.
There are so many other guys out there so why the manhore.

As sad as this sounds, that's not so different from reality.

willyvereb · 2009-07-02, 14:46

True. Sekai's case maybe understandable because hse has a long-time crush on him. And with Kotonoha's mindset it's again not surprising. Actually quite a few girls has a crush on him without him knowing. Makoto's that damn lucky.

XHavoc ReaperX · 2009-07-02, 21:50

In terms of the plot, seeing what events led up to Makoto's death, the ending was quite appropriate as I believe it would have been a bit stupid to end it with a happy ending considering those events. I don't think Makoto necessarily deserved to die, but I do think he brought upon his own end and this ending was chosen for School Days, as it makes for a greater effect. Depending on the person this will be either a negative or positive effect, this fact is received. I disagree that Makoto was a 'man-whore', he was merely a sex addict. Just as Dex-kun says, it really is not that different from reality, crazy things happen, scary things happen, life is life. So, although I don't think one should go as far to say that he deserved to die, but the event of him dying as a result of the preceding events in the anime does teach an important lesson about life, Don't Cheat.

Akka · 2009-08-20, 08:28

Quote:

Does Makoto deserve to die?

God, yes.
Yes, yes, yes.

GamerAce100 · 2009-08-21, 23:13

Mokoto was a good guy, but he he's had too much fun already.

He's made out with like 10 different people already in like one school year. he even had a foursome, I think.

DeX-kun · 2009-08-22, 01:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by GamerAce100

Mokoto was a good guy, but he he's had too much fun already.

He's made out with like 10 different people already in like one school year. he even had a foursome, I think.

That would be an orgy my friend

I'd argue whether Makoto was a good guy or not because by the end of the series, he was a cold-hearted individual. In the beginning of the series though, he seemed like a nice guy but he just gets worse as the series goes on.

BetoJR · 2009-08-22, 03:45

But can we honestly say that he was irredeemable? I mean, couldn't he have changed or matured, given time?

willyvereb · 2009-08-22, 05:03

Actually maybe yes. Kotonoha's situation shocked him enough. And being with Sekai made him a bit more responsible, but the thing his karma brought it uppon him(I mean his death). He made too many mistakes and managed to ruin 2 lives. It needed a miracle for him to survive after playing around that much. That's why he's an idiot. We often associate him with the group of heartless womanisers, but he's something else. He didn't have the mind for keeping up many relationships nor the danger sense to cure things in time.
He needed a HUGE slap on the face(or two) to make him understand what he's doing. He's dumb and oblivious to happenings, but actually nice. But I can't imagine anyone noticing what really happens and a character with enough guts to do it to him(I swear he could be our great hero in the anime by doing so).

BetoJR · 2009-08-22, 05:14

Well, we'll never know, then... after all, when you die, there's no reset button. And that's why I find murder ultimately wrong.

But as for your points:
He didn't bring it upon himself: he never killed anyone. No "karma" here, unless we start bringing past lives into it, and that's never alluded in the series, now is it?
He didn't ruin Kotonoha's life: he was - at least apparently - gonna be with her, in the end.
He didn't ruin Sekai's life: unmarried single mothers live just fine, all around us.

willyvereb · 2009-08-22, 05:45

About death I have a mostly similar opinion. It wasn't justified Sekai to kill her, but certainly makes understandable.
And you're right. I obviously exaggreated with the world "ruined", but he seriously messed up their lives:
_He ruined Kotonoha's very view of the world. It certainly more of Kotonoha's fault for overweighting their relationship and playing oblivious to the very end.. But still Makoto ruined her very worldvew and lifestyle, effectively breaking her. I don't take her getting together with makot again as a good thing. It certainly brought a bit of cure, but it'll hurt even more when he cheats on her again and leves her alone. It isn't a certain thing, but a really possible one.
-Leaving alone a pregnant woman especially in her emotional downhill is seriously ass move. Not to mention it ruined her possible future career with it.
And sorry, I have seriously only substantial knownledge about reincarnation theory and karma, it was a foolish thing from me to bring this up.

Akka · 2009-08-22, 06:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by willyvereb

We often associate him with the group of heartless womanisers, but he's something else. He didn't have the mind for keeping up many relationships nor the danger sense to cure things in time.
He needed a HUGE slap on the face(or two) to make him understand what he's doing. He's dumb and oblivious to happenings, but actually nice.

I beg to disagree. He was just too much of a bastard to put it on obliviousness.
He was yelling at Sekai for "getting pregnant" (yeah, because she did it all by herself...), and whined it wasn't his fault.
He was acting like if his life was miserable simply because he wasn't able to nail the whole school.
He was completely selfish and uncaring up to the end.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BetoJR

But can we honestly say that he was irredeemable? I mean, couldn't he have changed or matured, given time?

About anyone has the potential of redemption and may change in time.
Doesn't mean that he didn't deserve what he got. Potentiality is not actuality.

Quote:

_He ruined Kotonoha's very view of the world. It certainly more of Kotonoha's fault for overweighting their relationship and playing oblivious to the very end.. But still Makoto ruined her very worldvew and lifestyle, effectively breaking her. I don't take her getting together with makot again as a good thing. It certainly brought a bit of cure, but it'll hurt even more when he cheats on her again and leves her alone. It isn't a certain thing, but a really possible one.
-Leaving alone a pregnant woman especially in her emotional downhill is seriously ass move. Not to mention it ruined her possible future career with it.

On this I fully agree.

BetoJR · 2009-08-22, 11:26

Well, I don't think he deserved what he got. Plain difference of opinion, then. Shall we move on?

As for Makoto destroying the two girls lives... I mean, c'mon... pregnant girls manage to live either as single mothers or leaving the child up for adoption every single day around this wide world. It's not a life ending event. Scorned girls also move on - even the psychotic ones. They could very well have nice lives, after all things considered. But the way things went, that's a moot point.

Akka · 2009-08-22, 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by BetoJR

As for Makoto destroying the two girls lives... I mean, c'mon... pregnant girls manage to live either as single mothers or leaving the child up for adoption every single day around this wide world. It's not a life ending event. Scorned girls also move on - even the psychotic ones. They could very well have nice lives, after all things considered. But the way things went, that's a moot point.

Of course, you're quite right. But you're also underplaying some points : not all cases are the same.
What you say is true ; but there also is quite a lot of single mothers and cheated girls (and boys) that have their ensuing lifes severely damaged. There is many cases of suicides and murders over such things in the world - and of course, at the same times, there is many cases of perfectly okay single mothers, and cheating situations which barely hurt at all the victim. As I said, it depends on the cases.

School Days goes the extra mile to show an especially dramatic and cruel case, in which it happens that the lives of the girls concerned were largely messed up by the end - unlike most real-life cases, but like quite a bit other real-life cases.
Not that I think they were unsalvageable (though I can hardly imagine Katsura ever becoming stable again, at least not before a sizable chunk of her life has been wasted away), but the situation was set up to induce drama, rash acts and a male protagonist just asking for it ^^

DeX-kun · 2009-08-22, 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by BetoJR

As for Makoto destroying the two girls lives... I mean, c'mon... pregnant girls manage to live either as single mothers or leaving the child up for adoption every single day around this wide world. It's not a life ending event. Scorned girls also move on - even the psychotic ones. They could very well have nice lives, after all things considered. But the way things went, that's a moot point.

You know, despite everything Makoto has done, I completely agree with you on this one. They say "you learn from your mistakes," and it was obvious enough that both Sekai and Kotonoha made huge mistakes in trying to build a profound relationship with Makoto. We all makes choices and in my opinion, both Sekai and Kotonoha ruined their own lives.

willyvereb · 2009-08-22, 13:24

Right, but I still can understand their reasons, especially Sekai's. She's invested so much in her relationship with makoto and she even got pregnant. People can't stop their feelings and she had well enough reason to have such strong feelings.
And Kotonoha was really introverted so she was selfish and introverted. I can understand her reasons a bit too, but I think she wasn't in such an impossible situation like Sekai.

2009-01-27, 03:47	Link #281
HazardousWaste Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: san jose, california Age: 34	id like to voice my own opinion here. i personally think that makoto was generally oblivious to the consequences of his actions and passed up his best chance at living a happy life by not slowing down and stopping to think about who had true feelings for him. he seemed like a really dense guy because if you look at it, its not that kotonoha didnt want to do it with him, but he, due to sekai's pushing and prodding, moved far faster than kotonoha was ready for. if he had just stopped for a moment, he wouldve realized she was the only one truly devoted to him, and had enough understanding to know that she should only let him in when she is ready herself. frankly i think sekai is an extremely irrational person and did not deserve to have ever been with makoto. she exploited his density and used him to satisfy her own desires. she knew she could easily distract him from his true interests, and by doing so from the beginning completely destroyed him. unfortunately for makoto, he realized his mistakes far, far too late.

2009-01-27, 04:38	Link #282
willyvereb Mad Scientist #0000 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hungry Age: 35	Funny...she pushed him? Somewhat true and false...She pulled him back him and pushed forward many at once...She pushed him somewhat because she wants that the whole relationship beetween Kotonoha and Makoto would be complete as fast as possible(to calm down her heart). But Makoto in general were too pushy...if someone just mentions him that he could kiss with Kotonoha at the movie he realy tries it no matter how bad the situation...he's the one who can't stop his desires...It's true that if she ddidn't do anything then it may happen otherwise(most probably they never got together). And if she don't "seduce" him then maybe slowly he can builded up a correct relationship with Kotonoha. But we can't forget the fact that Makoto is already burned with desires. I don't think he could endure it too long. And then he started to act more and more to his desires. Caring not for the others feelings...I don't know how he become such a man(more precisely: such a jerk), but i think if he realy loved Kotonoha then he couldn't do something like that... I think he's just physicaly attracted to Kotonoha(big chest, kind face), and that's the same with Sekai...he just wanted sex. Nothing more nothing less...when it seemed that Sekai more willing to sex than Kotonoha he runs for her, when she become depressed he didn't care because he have replacement(from his view even better ones because they have no demands about being a boyfriend of hers). Frankly i think you misunderstood something: Makoto used Sekai...if her desire was to have sex with Makoto then she didn't acted down just because it ended...Sekai's desire was not to have sex with Makoto but his love. Makoto deserved to die? No...as no one deserves to die...he must have paid sensed his guilt and must have paid back to the girls somehow...perhaps that's nearly impossible for him(even his sense of guilt's awakening is a big problem).

2009-01-30, 02:46	Link #283
bin1127 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2009	Makoto didn't really deserve to die. I didn't think anyone needed to die in fact. but after the revelation that sekai tried to help setsuna get to know Makoto it puts more blame on sekai. If someone tries that hard to stir things up they deserve a large part of the blame. And it's not like Makoto was uber mature given how he's portrayed. He's always swept along with whatever happens. Kinda naive but shouldn't have to die. There's probably some girls in real life who cling on to guys like M and can't tear themselves away for some unknown reason. So the whole premise doesn't seem seem so out of this world.

2009-02-07, 18:25	Link #284
ShatteredSkys Delinquent Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: In front of my PC	Yes, but he really don't deserved being stabbed in his hole body several times, lying on the floor crying, having a flashback accompanied by some sad music, dying slowly because of his wounds and get his head cut off by another insane girl. Nice Boat!

2009-07-02, 13:20	Link #285
xxangelchanxx >:3 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: canada	I just wanna know why kotonoha and Sekai acted like Makoto was the last guy on earth. There are so many other guys out there so why the manhore.

2009-07-02, 14:46	Link #287
willyvereb Mad Scientist #0000 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hungry Age: 35	True. Sekai's case maybe understandable because hse has a long-time crush on him. And with Kotonoha's mindset it's again not surprising. Actually quite a few girls has a crush on him without him knowing. Makoto's that damn lucky.

2009-07-02, 21:50	Link #288
XHavoc ReaperX ~* Pant ~ Graphic Designer* Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: MA, United States	In terms of the plot, seeing what events led up to Makoto's death, the ending was quite appropriate as I believe it would have been a bit stupid to end it with a happy ending considering those events. I don't think Makoto necessarily deserved to die, but I do think he brought upon his own end and this ending was chosen for School Days, as it makes for a greater effect. Depending on the person this will be either a negative or positive effect, this fact is received. I disagree that Makoto was a 'man-whore', he was merely a sex addict. Just as Dex-kun says, it really is not that different from reality, crazy things happen, scary things happen, life is life. So, although I don't think one should go as far to say that he deserved to die, but the event of him dying as a result of the preceding events in the anime does teach an important lesson about life, Don't Cheat.

2009-08-21, 23:13	Link #290
GamerAce100 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2009	Mokoto was a good guy, but he he's had too much fun already. He's made out with like 10 different people already in like one school year. he even had a foursome, I think.

2009-08-22, 05:03	Link #293
willyvereb Mad Scientist #0000 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hungry Age: 35	Actually maybe yes. Kotonoha's situation shocked him enough. And being with Sekai made him a bit more responsible, but the thing his karma brought it uppon him(I mean his death). He made too many mistakes and managed to ruin 2 lives. It needed a miracle for him to survive after playing around that much. That's why he's an idiot. We often associate him with the group of heartless womanisers, but he's something else. He didn't have the mind for keeping up many relationships nor the danger sense to cure things in time. He needed a HUGE slap on the face(or two) to make him understand what he's doing. He's dumb and oblivious to happenings, but actually nice. But I can't imagine anyone noticing what really happens and a character with enough guts to do it to him(I swear he could be our great hero in the anime by doing so).

2009-08-22, 05:45	Link #295
willyvereb Mad Scientist #0000 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hungry Age: 35	About death I have a mostly similar opinion. It wasn't justified Sekai to kill her, but certainly makes understandable. And you're right. I obviously exaggreated with the world "ruined", but he seriously messed up their lives: _He ruined Kotonoha's very view of the world. It certainly more of Kotonoha's fault for overweighting their relationship and playing oblivious to the very end.. But still Makoto ruined her very worldvew and lifestyle, effectively breaking her. I don't take her getting together with makot again as a good thing. It certainly brought a bit of cure, but it'll hurt even more when he cheats on her again and leves her alone. It isn't a certain thing, but a really possible one. -Leaving alone a pregnant woman especially in her emotional downhill is seriously ass move. Not to mention it ruined her possible future career with it. And sorry, I have seriously only substantial knownledge about reincarnation theory and karma, it was a foolish thing from me to bring this up.

2009-08-22, 13:24	Link #300
willyvereb Mad Scientist #0000 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Hungry Age: 35	Right, but I still can understand their reasons, especially Sekai's. She's invested so much in her relationship with makoto and she even got pregnant. People can't stop their feelings and she had well enough reason to have such strong feelings. And Kotonoha was really introverted so she was selfish and introverted. I can understand her reasons a bit too, but I think she wasn't in such an impossible situation like Sekai.