2010-06-25, 19:26 | Link #11641 |
受話器持って魔女・エアトリーチェ
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Also, on the account of Kinzotrice, I will say this: In Japanese Kinzo's Corpse is explain exactly as that. Kinzo is NOT an abstract concept or personality. If it were, then 07 wouldn't have used the Gold truth involving Kinzo's corpse. The exact gold is この死体が右代宮金蔵の死体であると保証する…!! (changed to orange because Yellow is hard to read lol) Or literally "I guarantee that this corpse is definitely Ushiromiya Kinzo's corpse!" Shitai, IIRC, doesn't have very many metaphorical or abstract connotations. We are assured by GM Battler that the corpse does exist and it is Kinzo's corpse, so he can't still be alive under a different name. I think that's my proposal for Kinzotrice.
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2010-06-25, 19:34 | Link #11642 | |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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2010-06-25, 20:27 | Link #11643 | |||
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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I could try to explain it as "they count as two separate people even though they share the same body" but that would invalidate the possibility of the 17th Person X, which is what I'm trying to pull for. Quote:
If Shannon, Kanon and/or who have you are indeed Kinzo's heirs, they're almost certainly not in the family register. |
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2010-06-25, 20:51 | Link #11644 |
Wild Speculator
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: 13th Hierarchical City Kagutsuchi
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This has been bugging me ever since you guys brought this up, but was there any proof that Battler literally left the family register for the Ushiromiya's? I was always under the impression that he just went to live with his grandparents and just went by Asumu's family name. If my assumption is correct, there would be a window for Kanon or Shanon to be added to the family register with little suspicion no?
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2010-06-25, 20:56 | Link #11645 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
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I can see a concept "dying" (I believe Sakutarou was talked about in similar terms), but I really can't imagine a concept being described as a "victim".
I suppose you could handwave the "6 people are dead" by saying that person x died along with them and the 6 people listed don't have to be the 6 dead... but then you've just got a much more complicated version of what you started with :P. Something about the ep 3 first twilight is a bit off. Shannon is in the room that the parents would obviously break into first. Kanon is therefore in the room they'd break into last. It isn't inconceivable that someone else could pick up the corpse, change its clothes and drag it over to the church in this time. Of course, we still have all this red to get round... Incidentally, has Beatrice given a good reason she still refers to "Shannon" even though it's a name used "strictly for work only" and we now know her real name? |
2010-06-25, 21:02 | Link #11646 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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2010-06-25, 21:10 | Link #11647 |
Wild Speculator
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: 13th Hierarchical City Kagutsuchi
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Ah was that so? Guess I really need to go over the novels again in greater detail cause I don't remember him saying that =P.
edit: What I meant by proof was actually had he ever said that he reentered the register, but seeing as you just answered that, train of thought ended. Last edited by delita-umw-; 2010-06-25 at 21:21. |
2010-06-25, 21:20 | Link #11649 | |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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That's not really the point of Kinzotrice anyway. The point is to demonstrate that expanding the witch's darkness recklessly leads to absurd theories that you can't deny. Here is the continuation of that thread.
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2010-06-25, 21:24 | Link #11651 | |
受話器持って魔女・エアトリーチェ
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Also I haven't read 6 yet, I personally refuse to try to Text Hook it (even though I can read a little Japanese). I guess that's where the Golds start telling lies? Hm, I wonder how that works in 6 though... |
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2010-06-25, 21:27 | Link #11652 |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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Like I've said before an opinion about something you see doesn't have to really be "a lie", and supposing the gold is antimystery anyway it can be "partially true".
I like to look at the gold as something where the more Data you have to support it the more true it is. And in particular it seems to be at it's best when both the blue and the red are being used against it. When only the red is being used it gets shot down. It's like the finishing move in a fighting game.
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2010-06-25, 21:50 | Link #11653 | |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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2010-06-25, 21:54 | Link #11654 | ||||
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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I thought about it, and... it actually works pretty well. One of the big things that any "-trice" theory fails to explain is Kyrie and Battler's first impressions of Suit-Beatrice... that is, how she looks exactly like the witch in the portrait, whose Western appearance resembles no one else on the island. Last edited by Tyabann; 2010-06-25 at 22:05. |
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2010-06-25, 21:59 | Link #11655 |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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the number of people in this parlor now is equal to the total number of people on this island.
For Kinzotrice or any person X to work he/she must exist in the parlor in episode 5 to be part of the count. Explain that.
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2010-06-25, 22:03 | Link #11656 |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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Pfft. Someone's hiding behind the curtain to listen in. We know it is possible because that's where Ghost Kanon and Jessica go to hide in Ep3 and the existence of such a hiding place is hinted at by Kanon reporting the content of the family conference discussion to Kinzo in Ep1.
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2010-06-25, 22:06 | Link #11657 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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2010-06-25, 22:08 | Link #11658 |
Back off, I'm a scientist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In a badly written story.
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No closets in the parlor (though that would be poetic, since Ushiromiyas never look into closets unless threatened -- afraid of all the skeletons in them I expect) but that curtain is definitely hinted at.
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2010-06-25, 22:13 | Link #11660 |
受話器持って魔女・エアトリーチェ
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Damn. I was about to use the living Kinzo reds but I just remembered that Kinzo is dead and it wouldn't apply to "Kinzotriche"
This IS good :3 It's pa-fekuto~ Wait how you guys get around the motive reds? What kind of MOTIVE would Kinzotriche have that wouldn't conflict with THOSE reds, huh? I wanna see what gets cooked up~ |
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