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Jimmy C · 2009-09-04, 13:21

Who said Quint had an IS?

al103 · 2009-09-04, 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy C

Who said Quint had an IS?

Fact that Subaru and Ginga practice family style that is ineffective without something like that? Fact that Wing Road was NOT called result of them being cyborgs as Vibration Shatter? And fact that they are her exact clones? And i also remember something among that lines, but thats where i can be wrong - indirect evidence is still enough.

Wild Goose · 2009-09-05, 00:18

I'm pretty sure that when they said that Subaru and Ginga practiced Quint's family style, it referred to her combat style.

MeisterBabylon · 2009-09-05, 00:39

Exact clones of Quint was disputed once, and I don't recall them being exact matches of Quint. What confuddles me (and my crew as well) is the mention that they are similar in genes... but Quint did not mother them biologically.

Who should we believe? Which one is red truth?

Wild Goose · 2009-09-05, 01:20

Subaru and Ginga practice Nakajima-style Shooting Arts, which is Neo-Belkan magic.

All users of Inherent Skills have been cyborgs, which is a strong argument that humans don't have Inherent Skills... because humans use magic.

itanshi1 · 2009-09-05, 01:22

So an IS is just a customized programmed propensity for magic use?

MeisterBabylon · 2009-09-05, 01:35

It is mentioned that Jail clones people for their IS. That is enough to show that people have IS in the first place.

AdmiralTigerclaw · 2009-09-05, 01:37

"Inherent Skill' might more be a refference to the 'Natural Design Ability' of the cyborg in question rather than what seems to be people thinking 'Inherrited Skill' as one passed down geneticly.

As an example: If I had Wolverine's Adamantium Claws. It would be said that my ability to rip your face off violently would be an 'inherent' trait to having said claws. An Inherent Skill.

So 'Inherent Skill' most likely reffers to an ability that is inherent in the function of a particular cyborg's body. Subaru was engineered to have the ability to use vibration as an attack. The ability is inherent to her physical structure itself. It is not provided by outside factors.

A regular human doesn't have an Inherent Skill, because they weren't spacificly designed like a peice of weapons engineering.

Nijiru · 2009-09-05, 03:30

I've searched this thread, and cannot find an answer to a question I have. Is it known when the Modern Belka style of magic was formed?
EDIT: Corrected wording.

Nya~n · 2009-09-05, 03:34

Nope, we've never been graced with that information. We've more or less been filling in this particular gap with our own estimations, though I pretty much follow Aaron008R's version on when it originated. (but then again, seeing as how everything was tied in together back in OCT1, I'm assuming most of us are using his version in the OC thread)

Rising Dragon · 2009-09-05, 04:04

I always figured that what Jail meant by that statement is that the cloning and culturing processes he uses determines what kind of Inherent Skill the cyborg gains. Not that he clones them because the people he's getting the genetic base from have the Inherent Skill themselves.

Nijiru · 2009-09-05, 04:05

I just looked through both timelines in the current OC thread, and cannot find a mention of the creation of the Modern Belka magic system. Do you happen to have a link to the post or know the year? I'm fiddling with ideas right now, and need to know if I should bother continuing. :P

MeisterBabylon · 2009-09-05, 04:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdmiralTigerclaw

"Inherent Skill' might more be a refference to the 'Natural Design Ability' of the cyborg in question rather than what seems to be people thinking 'Inherrited Skill' as one passed down geneticly.

As an example: If I had Wolverine's Adamantium Claws. It would be said that my ability to rip your face off violently would be an 'inherent' trait to having said claws. An Inherent Skill.

So 'Inherent Skill' most likely reffers to an ability that is inherent in the function of a particular cyborg's body. Subaru was engineered to have the ability to use vibration as an attack. The ability is inherent to her physical structure itself. It is not provided by outside factors.

A regular human doesn't have an Inherent Skill, because they weren't spacificly designed like a peice of weapons engineering.

That is all fine and dandy except it does not account for that Jail cloned people in order to preserve the expression of IS.

This is a weird bugger in itself, because the IS has to be expressed in some way in order for Jail to know that the person has that IS. The easiest way is to see person use IS, however if the person can't use the IS, then how did Jail know that person has the IS? And if humans can't use IS, how did the doc even discover the existence of IS for him to begin selecting choice individuals to collect, kill and clone?

I'm not implying I am right, I'm stating what I know and how it seems to imply that people can use IS. You guys have valid points, but they are totally valid only if it didn't contradict this line where it states that IS were preserved via cloning, because it implies Jail selected his targets meaning that he knew they had IS, which then begets the question of how did he know.

Edit: Got ninja'd. Alright then, we need the Silver Retriever power, now!

I think it's in one of the DVD booklets. Original and translated versions would be best.

Aaron008R · 2009-09-05, 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nya~n

Nope, we've never been graced with that information. We've more or less been filling in this particular gap with our own estimations, though I pretty much follow Aaron008R's version on when it originated. (but then again, seeing as how everything was tied in together back in OCT1, I'm assuming most of us are using his version in the OC thread)

Well now... I'm flattered.

Just to be clear, the 'version' that I follow, as Nya~n says is more specifically that the 'Modern' Belka style has been there since even before the first Nanoha series. Quint (Subaru and Ginga's mother) and her Revolver Knuckles were the main basis for this. So far, most of has have been assuming that the style has been there for a while now, except that after the events of A's the Neo Belka style experienced a great amount of research advancement and integration into the TSAB Magical Academy, since Hayate and the Wolkenritter came over to the side of the TSAB.

To be fair, our folk at the OC Thread never really did come into an official agreement as to when it started. All that we know is that it has been there for good while.

itanshi1 · 2009-09-05, 15:25

perhaps the number was slow as the researchers hadn't perfected the transitional from one style to another. bardiche and raising heart requesting more parts <.<; that factors in somewhere i'm sure

Password · 2009-09-05, 16:36

Well, four got their IS via cloning (Uno, Cinque, Sette, Nove). The rest got it from mix and matching DNA and hoping for the best.

I'm thinking that IS is just Jail's fancy generic name for "super-powers cyborgs were born with". Other people's special traits are just called special traits <<

itanshi1 · 2009-09-05, 16:38

I still prefer customized programmed proficiency for magic since that makes sense when manufacturing a team.

MeisterBabylon · 2009-09-05, 21:57

Thing is, we're trying to leave out preferences and interpretations and get to the core of what canon states on the topic itself, in this case, the nature of IS.

Looks like even the Silver Retriever is having trouble finding it... I haven't found that article either.

itanshi1 · 2009-09-05, 23:48

Well, the purpose of the combat cyborgs was the ability to create your own army. the purpose of having so many different skills was probably marketing and team resonance. So i don't think my view is out of bounds.

Password · 2009-09-06, 00:52

True, but based on StrikerS Sound Stage 3, the Doctor didn't have the technology to easily cherry pick abilities.

Cinque: And, while clones easily display special characteristics, it has problems with production efficiency and cost. They're to obtain the special skills the originals possess, creating models specializing in one art.
Wendi: Ah, like Nove's "Air Liner" and Cinque's "Detonator".
Cinque: Culturing is for mass production. It's hard to obtain desired abilities but their production is stable.

So he had a choice between "high chance of getting specific cool ability, low success rate" (Cloning), or "high success rate, low chance of getting cool ability" (Culturing).

2009-09-05, 00:18	Link #2343
Wild Goose Truth Martyr Author Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Doing Anzu's paperwork. Age: 38	I'm pretty sure that when they said that Subaru and Ginga practiced Quint's family style, it referred to her combat style. __________________ One must forgive one's enemies, but not before they are hanged.Heinrich Heine. *I believe in miracles.* Order of Freelance Mages (Goose's Nanoha OC Project)

2009-09-05, 00:39	Link #2344
MeisterBabylon ~ Your Smile ~ Author Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: 346Pro Age: 38	Exact clones of Quint was disputed once, and I don't recall them being exact matches of Quint. What confuddles me (and my crew as well) is the mention that they are similar in genes... but Quint did not mother them biologically. Who should we believe? Which one is red truth? __________________ 白露型駆逐艦の４番艦、夕立です。第三次ソロモン海戦では、けっこう頑張ったっぽい★？

2009-09-05, 01:20	Link #2345
Wild Goose Truth Martyr Author Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Doing Anzu's paperwork. Age: 38	Subaru and Ginga practice Nakajima-style Shooting Arts, which is Neo-Belkan magic. All users of Inherent Skills have been cyborgs, which is a strong argument that humans don't have Inherent Skills... *because humans use magic.* __________________ One must forgive one's enemies, but not before they are hanged.Heinrich Heine. *I believe in miracles.* Order of Freelance Mages (Goose's Nanoha OC Project)

2009-09-05, 01:22	Link #2346
itanshi1 Writer, Jester, MtG nerd Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Nanoha Used Car Dealership. RERISE!	So an IS is just a customized programmed propensity for magic use? __________________ For those that belittle their favorite characters, complain about pairings, complain about oversexed images. Stop, thank you. Fear Anxiety Doubt is but a fad. The life of a fad depends entirely on the willingness to support it. Difficulty is a choice. Determination is a path. Your next great idea after your destination is the true goal.

2009-09-05, 01:35	Link #2347
MeisterBabylon ~ Your Smile ~ Author Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: 346Pro Age: 38	It is mentioned that Jail clones people for their IS. That is enough to show that people have IS in the first place. __________________ 白露型駆逐艦の４番艦、夕立です。第三次ソロモン海戦では、けっこう頑張ったっぽい★？

2009-09-04, 13:21	Link #2341
Jimmy C Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007	Who said Quint had an IS?

2009-09-05, 01:37	Link #2348
AdmiralTigerclaw Sword Wielding Penguin Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Subspace, Texas Age: 39	"Inherent Skill' might more be a refference to the 'Natural Design Ability' of the cyborg in question rather than what seems to be people thinking 'Inherrited Skill' as one passed down geneticly. As an example: If I had Wolverine's Adamantium Claws. It would be said that my ability to rip your face off violently would be an 'inherent' trait to having said claws. An Inherent Skill. So 'Inherent Skill' most likely reffers to an ability that is inherent in the function of a particular cyborg's body. Subaru was engineered to have the ability to use vibration as an attack. The ability is inherent to her physical structure itself. It is not provided by outside factors. A regular human doesn't have an Inherent Skill, because they weren't spacificly designed like a peice of weapons engineering.

2009-09-05, 03:30	Link #2349
Nijiru Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Alberta, Canada	I've searched this thread, and cannot find an answer to a question I have. Is it known when the Modern Belka style of magic was formed? EDIT: Corrected wording.

2009-09-05, 03:34	Link #2350
Nya~n umbrella moe~♥ Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: huh wha-?	Nope, we've never been graced with that information. We've more or less been filling in this particular gap with our own estimations, though I pretty much follow Aaron008R's version on when it originated. (but then again, seeing as how everything was tied in together back in OCT1, I'm assuming most of us are using his version in the OC thread) __________________

2009-09-05, 04:04	Link #2351
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	I always figured that what Jail meant by that statement is that the cloning and culturing processes he uses determines what kind of Inherent Skill the cyborg gains. Not that he clones them because the people he's getting the genetic base from have the Inherent Skill themselves. __________________

2009-09-05, 04:05	Link #2352
Nijiru Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Alberta, Canada	I just looked through both timelines in the current OC thread, and cannot find a mention of the creation of the Modern Belka magic system. Do you happen to have a link to the post or know the year? I'm fiddling with ideas right now, and need to know if I should bother continuing. :P

2009-09-05, 15:25	Link #2355
itanshi1 Writer, Jester, MtG nerd Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Nanoha Used Car Dealership. RERISE!	perhaps the number was slow as the researchers hadn't perfected the transitional from one style to another. bardiche and raising heart requesting more parts <.<; that factors in somewhere i'm sure __________________ For those that belittle their favorite characters, complain about pairings, complain about oversexed images. Stop, thank you. Fear Anxiety Doubt is but a fad. The life of a fad depends entirely on the willingness to support it. Difficulty is a choice. Determination is a path. Your next great idea after your destination is the true goal.

2009-09-05, 16:36	Link #2356
Password Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009	Well, four got their IS via cloning (Uno, Cinque, Sette, Nove). The rest got it from mix and matching DNA and hoping for the best. I'm thinking that IS is just Jail's fancy generic name for "super-powers cyborgs were born with". Other people's special traits are just called special traits <<

2009-09-05, 16:38	Link #2357
itanshi1 Writer, Jester, MtG nerd Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Nanoha Used Car Dealership. RERISE!	I still prefer customized programmed proficiency for magic since that makes sense when manufacturing a team. __________________ For those that belittle their favorite characters, complain about pairings, complain about oversexed images. Stop, thank you. Fear Anxiety Doubt is but a fad. The life of a fad depends entirely on the willingness to support it. Difficulty is a choice. Determination is a path. Your next great idea after your destination is the true goal.

2009-09-05, 21:57	Link #2358
MeisterBabylon ~ Your Smile ~ Author Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: 346Pro Age: 38	Thing is, we're trying to leave out preferences and interpretations and get to the core of what canon states on the topic itself, in this case, the nature of IS. Looks like even the Silver Retriever is having trouble finding it... I haven't found that article either. __________________ 白露型駆逐艦の４番艦、夕立です。第三次ソロモン海戦では、けっこう頑張ったっぽい★？

2009-09-05, 23:48	Link #2359
itanshi1 Writer, Jester, MtG nerd Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Nanoha Used Car Dealership. RERISE!	Well, the purpose of the combat cyborgs was the ability to create your own army. the purpose of having so many different skills was probably marketing and team resonance. So i don't think my view is out of bounds. __________________ For those that belittle their favorite characters, complain about pairings, complain about oversexed images. Stop, thank you. Fear Anxiety Doubt is but a fad. The life of a fad depends entirely on the willingness to support it. Difficulty is a choice. Determination is a path. Your next great idea after your destination is the true goal.

2009-09-06, 00:52	Link #2360
Password Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009	True, but based on StrikerS Sound Stage 3, the Doctor didn't have the technology to easily cherry pick abilities. Cinque: And, while clones easily display special characteristics, it has problems with production efficiency and cost. They're to obtain the special skills the originals possess, creating models specializing in one art. Wendi: Ah, like Nove's "Air Liner" and Cinque's "Detonator". Cinque: Culturing is for mass production. It's hard to obtain desired abilities but their production is stable. So he had a choice between "high chance of getting specific cool ability, low success rate" (Cloning), or "high success rate, low chance of getting cool ability" (Culturing).