Claymore Chapter 99

[Ryus]

Originally Posted by Zsych

I've always thought that Yagi should just write for an anime rather than draw manga. The character designs were better in the anime, and the story got told much faster. 100 chapters in a monthly manga means 8+ years. Who could retain interest in a project for that long?

With an anime he could tell the story at a decent speed and not give off signs of wanting to finish things quickly and being bored with the series (which is how I read Riful and Isley's rather anticlimactic deaths)

I have a bad feeling that Yagi may just plan to end this series at 100 chapters in a dark way - Priscilla kills Clare - story ended darkly. The End.

There are plenty of anime that seem to be going well, and then end in some strange extreme way like that.

Blasphemy! The anime being "fast" doesn't mean better. It was far worse than the manga... especially Pieta.

I just wish Claymore would become a biweekly publication and Yagi hire a few more artist to get the drawings/panels done in time... then we'd get 26 chapters a year... double plus 2 chapters more then we currently get.

[theevilanimal]

I'm sure the surprise will be a 3 months break

[Cyclone]

Originally Posted by Aimless

Again, the databook is not a terribly reliable source here. I know it claims that Priscilla is an offensive type, but that is contradicted by the manga. The manga never says it explicitly, but it's obvious from an examination of Priscilla's abilities which type she is, and that's not an offensive type. I've had this issue with the databook since it came out.

Furthermore, you are including two warriors in your list that I intentionally left off: Audrey and Rachel. We don't know, from evidence in the manga, which type either of those two are. Audrey's sword skills are defensive in nature (ie., redirecting the enemy's attacks), but that is not a particular indication of her type as a warrior. Same with Rachel; her "special attack" is basically a variation on a drawcut, and is based around the fact that she has high physical strength. This might be an indication of a predilection towards offense, until you remember Deneve's post-time skip specialization.

I'm more willing to label Rachel as probably offensive than I am Audrey as probably defensive, but until we learn more about either of them its too soon to try to include them in the list.

There is exactly one metric which has been given for accurate assessment of a warrior's type in the manga - whether or not that warrior can regenerate a missing limb - and we see evidence of that infrequently. Fortunately, we can extrapolate that to ABs, since we know "offensive types don't automatically become good at instant regeneration after awakening," and the manga has given us much more evidence in that regard. Now that I think of it, that probably means that we can add the six-armed AB to the list of defensive types.

As Ryus said, Priscilla is the very definition of Offensive type.
Deneve hid under her bed as a youma ate her parents and sister.
Priscilla took an ax to her youmafied father's head.

[Shiek927]

Originally Posted by theevilanimal

I'm sure the surprise will be a 3 months break

Aren't you such an optimist

As for the databooks, I always saw them as reliable. Not terribly reliable, as you said Aimless, but if they were totally worthless to us, why would Yagi go to the effort of making them?

Through them, we DID learn some new things. They are not completely reliable, but that doesn't mean we should totally ignore them.

Originally Posted by Ryus

just wish Claymore would become a biweekly publication and Yagi hire a few more artist to get the drawings/panels done in time... then we'd get 26 chapters a year... double plus 2 chapters more then we currently get.

Oh, hell no. I'm glad we have one every month, it gives us plenty of time to look over everything.

Some months, we admittingly get bored and run out of topics, but others, we're busy all month.

[Ryus]

Originally Posted by theevilanimal

I'm sure the surprise will be a 3 months break

You Evil Animal! Don't say stuff like that!

[warrior]

Originally Posted by Bimber

I so nervous
Where are new spoilers?
And I want a second season

I think H&D must die. Time for ...RIP

Я тоже жду второй сезон Bimber надеюсь ближе к концу года сделают. Спойлеры хорошо, но сканы лучше.
In the anime, as you may recall events from the manga diverge at the Pieta, which probably will come up with something to go back to the events in the manga in the second season. Wheeze in the end to make.

[Aimless]

Originally Posted by Ryus

...so it's a safe bet Rachel is Offensive and Audrey is Defensive.

Once again, the only reliable metric we have is regeneration capability. The manga has given us information on neither Audrey nor Rachel in that regard.

Originally Posted by Ryus

Even if it's not exactly said... neither was Duaf and he was on you offensive list. For Duaf too... it was just a description of his nature, so it to wasn't spelled out.

Chapter 47 page 27.

Taken in conjunction with chapter 59 page 8, the implication is clear.

Originally Posted by Ryus

*snip*

Once again, the only reliable metric we have is regenerative capability. We never see Priscilla in a situation where she needs to regenerate during her short span as a warrior, but fortunately we have more than enough evidence on her as an AB to make up for that.

To make the point short and simple: no other being on the continent even comes close to Priscilla's regenerative capabilities.

Originally Posted by Cyclone

As Ryus said, Priscilla is the very definition of Offensive type.
Deneve hid under her bed as a youma ate her parents and sister.
Priscilla took an ax to her youmafied father's head.

I disagree. We know that personality defines type as a warrior, but the above example is not so clear cut as that. You are attempting to use behavior - and just two specific instances thereof - as a proxy for personality. And as the tree-ring record shows us, proxies are not necessarily good representations of the things they are supposed to represent.

On the other hand, we have another piece of information which is directly related to warrior type, and has been explicitly stated to be such for both warriors and awakened beings. If that one bit of knowledge you give was all we knew about either Priscilla or Deneve, I would tend to agree with you. It is not, however, and that anecdote is insufficient to overcome the fact that awakened Priscilla is better at regeneration than over-the-limit Deneve.

(Granted, I can think of a couple of possibilities that would explain Priscilla's abilities while still letting her be an offensive type. As it stands, though, Yagi has given no evidence that either is the case, and Occam's Razor implies that until he does it's more likely that my logic above is correct.)

[Newhope]

Originally Posted by Armored Knight

But the problem is not how long it takes to make an anime. It is the amount of material in the manga. The events after the Northern battle are deep and complex compared to the earlier events. However, I can can imagine that a few more chapters are necessary to make a proper second season. Anyway, it depends on the events of the upcoming chapters.

There's more than enough material to produce a 12 episode season hell put a little filler in you could more than likely make another 24 episode season .

[Ryus]

Originally Posted by Aimless

Once again, the only reliable metric we have is regeneration capability. The manga has given us information on neither Audrey nor Rachel in that regard.



Chapter 47 page 27.

Taken in conjunction with chapter 59 page 8, the implication is clear.



Once again, the only reliable metric we have is regenerative capability. We never see Priscilla in a situation where she needs to regenerate during her short span as a warrior, but fortunately we have more than enough evidence on her as an AB to make up for that.

To make the point short and simple: no other being on the continent even comes close to Priscilla's regenerative capabilities.

Rigardo's line about her regenerative ability made all points about Priscilla's regenerative abilities invalid if being used as the sole support for her being Defensive. If that's all you have Yagi already told use that isn't the case...

Look at extra chapter 3 again. Paraphrasing here but Rigardo pretty much says "it's not like normal regeneration but suppressed yoki leaking out". In short her regenerative ability is only due to her power level.

As too Dauf... I agree impaction is clear but it is still not spelled out. I believe the same hold true for Rachel and Audrey. Riful's comments about each, then compering the two, and finally Audrey lack of wounds after being stabbed for a while when Rachel was only stabbed 2 or 3 time and her being really wounded... all point to Audrey being Defensive and Rachel Offensive. Plus Audrey seemed to show more fear over awakening then death... as if she knew she had already decided her fate and knew what she was about to become... An Awakened Being.

[Shiek927]

Ryus is right; Priscilla's regeneration has never strictly been a technique or a power, as much as an added benefit she just happened to have, due to her overwhelming power.

Her main techniques have always been her on-off suppression, and her exponential growth. Her regeneration is simply relative to her power-level, because she rarely actually USES her power, because she suppresses it all the time unless she has to use it.

[Ryus]

Originally Posted by Newhope

There's more than enough material to produce a 12 episode season hell put a little filler in you could more than likely make another 24 episode season .

The only filler I'd want is stuff to get the anime back on track with the manga (nothing after that)... or a redo of Pieta and then the 12 new episodes.

They've already proven the anime writers can't do better than yagi no need to give them the go ahead to add fillers

[Gooral]

Originally Posted by Ryus

(...) Don't forget Clare too was a coward as a human... she hid behind Teresa and "Bodily fluids leaked from every part of my body" when Priscilla was awakening. Yet though sheer determination she became offensive in nature. Both Clare and Priscilla knew how much they were over-matched at the time and so did Audrey. (...)

Clare was a coward ?! Like when she didn't fear Teresa even when she was kicked by her (and I remind you that village elder pissed himself after just seeing a claymore) or when she tried to defend Teresa from a bandit? *Sigh* I wonder who is courageous according to you. As for Clare being paralysed by fear when Priscilla awakened, she would have to be insane to not be. She was a defenceless kid that encountered an unimaginable monster while losing the dearest person at the same time. I wouldn't call that cowardice but natural reaction of fear. What else she could do besides crying? Attack Priscilla?
Audrey's case is similar, she realized (contrary to Rachel) who she was dealing with and she's never felt such strong presence before. Facing inevitable death (or worse) she snapped. The difference between her and Clare's case is however she was trained to be a fighter and defeat monsters so label "coward" suits her much better than Clare but still it's not definite. Sure, when Clare knew Riful's true power she didn't budge much but she was much more experienced than Audrey (she met Priscilla after all) and she had a reason and resolve to live. Her determination didn't allow her to give up but who knows how would she act under other circumstances.
You're also making a mistake by trying to judge which claymores are defensive and which are offensive by watching their fights as claymores. We don't know how exactly they become one or another so once they're claymores it's not a given they would act more defensive or offensive at some time. For example Helen pissed herself (beginning of volume 6) and gave up even though she's considered by most of us to be offensive warrior.

Riful said they contrasted each other... so it's a safe bet Rachel is Offensive and Audrey is Defensive.

No, it's not safe to assume. She said it in context of their attacks, where Rachel uses strength Audrey uses finesse but they're both form of attacks not defence.

[Armored Knight]

And since when was the regenerative ability considered possible\impossible for the awakened beings based on their former type?

I have always thought that all of them had the ability to regenerate because on their power as awakened beings and not being Claymores anymore.

I don't really know if it is really like this or I haven't paid enough attention to this point yet.

[Aimless]

Originally Posted by Ryus

As too Dauf... I agree impaction is clear but it is still not spelled out. I believe the same hold true for Rachel and Audrey. Riful's comments about each, then compering the two, and finally Audrey lack of wounds after being stabbed for a while when Rachel was only stabbed 2 or 3 time and her being really wounded... all point to Audrey being Defensive and Rachel Offensive. Plus Audrey seemed to show more fear over awakening then death... as if she knew she had already decided her fate and knew what she was about to become... An Awakened Being.

Reread those chapters again. Rachel is injured far more grievously than Audrey ever is.

Look at chapter 70, pages 21 and 23, and then at chapter 72 page 16. Audrey's wounds are still present.

Originally Posted by Shiek927

Ryus is right; Priscilla's regeneration has never strictly been a technique or a power, as much as an added benefit she just happened to have, due to her overwhelming power.

Her main techniques have always been her on-off suppression, and her exponential growth. Her regeneration is simply relative to her power-level, because she rarely actually USES her power, because she suppresses it all the time unless she has to use it.

Her regeneration is her primary attack. I think that counts as a special technique.

Granted, that may be evidence of Ryus' claim that her regeneration is simply "because she is so powerful" and has nothing to do with her type. That's one of the two possibilities I eluded to in my aside to Cyclone. That said, until we have further evidence in favor of this hypothesis, Occam's Razor suggests that any awakened being whose primary defining characteristic is her absurd regenerative capabilities is, in fact, a defensive type.

[Ryus]

Originally Posted by Gooral

Clare was a coward ?! Like when she didn't fear Teresa even when she was kicked by her (and I remind you that village elder pissed himself after just seeing a claymore) or when she tried to defend Teresa from a bandit? *Sigh* I wonder who is courageous according to you. As for Clare being paralysed by fear when Priscilla awakened, she would have to be insane to not be. She was a defenceless kid that encountered an unimaginable monster while losing the dearest person at the same time. I wouldn't call that cowardice but natural reaction of fear. What else she could do besides crying? Attack Priscilla?
Audrey's case is similar, she realized (contrary to Rachel) who she was dealing with and she's never felt such strong presence before. Facing inevitable death (or worse) she snapped. The difference between her and Clare's case is however she was trained to be a fighter and defeat monsters so label "coward" suits her much better than Clare but still it's not definite. Sure, when Clare knew Riful's true power she didn't budge much but she was much more experienced than Audrey (she met Priscilla after all) and she had a reason and resolve to live. Her determination didn't allow her to give up but who knows how would she act under other circumstances.
You're also making a mistake by trying to judge which claymores are defensive and which are offensive by watching their fights as claymores. We don't know how exactly they become one or another so once they're claymores it's not a given they would act more defensive or offensive at some time. For example Helen pissed herself (beginning of volume 6) and gave up even though she's considered by most of us to be offensive warrior.

No, it's not safe to assume. She said it in context of their attacks, where Rachel uses strength Audrey uses finesse but they're both form of attacks not defence.

Clare was panicking from the moment Priscilla came after Teresa again while at +70%. She jolted in fear... hid behind Teresa and was shuddering in fear. Chapter 22 page 23

Plus you have Clare's comments after Priscilla's awakening... Paraphrasing here "couldn't hate the beast... I hated my fear."

Not to mention trying to scream when the bandits ambushed her and Teresa in the woods. Plus if you don't believe that she was fearful of facing the world without Teresa... well you'd just be wrong. While loving Teresa and the fact she shared the same kind of pain was most of why she wanted to be with her forever... children always fear being left alone and Teresa was also the perfect guardian in that world and she understood Clare's pain. Everything a abused child needs... love, understanding, and feeling secure.

Now all that doesn't make her a true coward (your right with your human comment) but it is how she views her past self. I personally believe a huge part of the reason why she loves Raki so much is because he's done for her (twice) what she wanted to do for Teresa... help even if it wouldn't amount to anything at all. I think Clare hates herself for not standing with Teresa no matter the consequences.

[Creangeru]

Originally Posted by revan5

I think you're making a small mistake about your statement. You believe that the power of the vast armies on the mainland is not all that great. You might be right that in relation to the Ghosts, it takes a large number of human soldiers to even the fight.

However, I would say that if you add in the Awakened Beings and Dragonkin, you'd be rather underestimating them. I think the mistake lies in numbers, not in the Awakeneds' individual strength or usefulness. I imagine that the Organization is stalemating the conflict by creating huge numbers of male super-soldiers, whom then completely awaken in combat. In other words, they very well might be able to produce far more of them than the Dragonkin can bring in through their population's natural growth. So the issue then becomes an issue of control naturally. Dragonkin may very well be a slow-breeding species, and super-soldiers like Claymores can be created from the human population relatively quickly. The fact that these men go on one-way missions means that they cannot have been given much training.

The one thing holding back this mass-manufactured army of monsters back is probably the fact that once unleashed their superiors have no control over them. The Dragonkin, slow-breeding though they may be, make up for this by being intelligent tribal monsters who fight in massed groups, thus concentrating their strength and backing one another up. We've seen this in the few panels of the great war Yagi has shown us so far. The other thing holding back the Dragonkins' enemies is the fact that the Awakened often wipe out their very own armies. In other words, once controllable Awakened Beings are a reality, things on the mainland start getting very hairy for the Dragonkin. Unless they find a way of mass-producing themselves, they might very well be killed off by a relentless tide of Awakened Beings.

Oh, I'm sorry. I was a bit misunderstood there. My point was about their individual strength and you wrote exactly what I thought, but hoped to imply it with my writing.
You can't read my mind even with using the force, right? You pinpointed my thoughts so accurately even your choice of words was on the spot. Scary....

What I don't get is how they were even able to get to the point of a stalemate for such a long time. It isn't the trench war of WWI, so why is the strength of a "recent" research (ABs) strong enough to hold off the enemy? If and only if the Dragonkins are as strong as they are shown, they (the enemy army) should have made the outcome of the war clear in the little time they had between brought out the Dragonkins and the introduction of the Organization side's AB powered beings.
The time span is way too big or too small, no matter how I look at it. If we look back at the Rabona fight and how defenseless the humans were against Agatha, I just can't imagine an army powerful enough in terms of strength or men to hold off one or two advancing Dragonkins.
Just imagine one Dragonkin as powerful as e.g. Isley. Faster than Rigardo, much bigger, homing arrows/missile weapons etc. and this being against a human army? Don't make me laugh. At Pieta we have seen what Rigardo did with "superhuman agile, strong, fast" beings and he wiped the floor with most of them. Compare this result with Isley's power and the lowly beings called humans and you know, what I am talking about.

[Ryus]

Originally Posted by Aimless

Reread those chapters again. Rachel is injured far more grievously than Audrey ever is.

Look at chapter 70, pages 21 and 23, and then at chapter 72 page 16. Audrey's wounds are still present.

I count Rachel at 4 wounds: 2 in the chest (lower left abs and right shoulder) and one on each leg.

I count Audrey with 3 known stab wounds... plus and unknown damage based on Riful tentacle rap. All 3 stab wounds on the chest, 1 near the heart, 1 right shoulder, and 1 left abs. Based on the blood on Riful's tentacles they are at least 6" deep each. All in all that's about the same amount of damage yet we all know the injured girl was Rachel.

Originally Posted by Aimless

Her regeneration is her primary attack. I think that counts as a special technique.

Granted, that may be evidence of Ryus' claim that her regeneration is simply "because she is so powerful" and has nothing to do with her type. That's one of the two possibilities I eluded to in my aside to Cyclone. That said, until we have further evidence in favor of this hypothesis, Occam's Razor suggests that any awakened being whose primary defining characteristic is her absurd regenerative capabilities is, in fact, a defensive type.

Incorrect... Occam's Razor requires one to use all know factors without prejudice. You seem to not place any weight in Ophelia's comments about behavior. If all accounts are taken into account without prejudice Priscilla is clearly offensive. Her being defensive requires you to ignore too much of her personality and only focus on one fact. Therefore the simplest solution base on all know factors is Priscilla being offensive with too much power.

[revan5]

Originally Posted by Creangeru

Oh, I'm sorry. I was a bit misunderstood there. My point was about their individual strength and you wrote exactly what I thought, but hoped to imply it with my writing.
You can't read my mind even with using the force, right? You pinpointed my thoughts so accurately even your choice of words was on the spot. Scary....

I hate to point this out, but Sith Lords are SUPPOSED to be able to do that.

Originally Posted by Creangeru

What I don't get is how they were even able to get to the point of a stalemate for such a long time. It isn't the trench war of WWI, so why is the strength of a "recent" research (ABs) strong enough to hold off the enemy? If and only if the Dragonkins are as strong as they are shown, they (the enemy army) should have made the outcome of the war clear in the little time they had between brought out the Dragonkins and the introduction of the Organization side's AB powered beings.
The time span is way too big or too small, no matter how I look at it. If we look back at the Rabona fight and how defenseless the humans were against Agatha, I just can't imagine an army powerful enough in terms of strength or men to hold off one or two advancing Dragonkins.
Just imagine one Dragonkin as powerful as e.g. Isley. Faster than Rigardo, much bigger, homing arrows/missile weapons etc. and this being against a human army? Don't make me laugh. At Pieta we have seen what Rigardo did with "superhuman agile, strong, fast" beings and he wiped the floor with most of them. Compare this result with Isley's power and the lowly beings called humans and you know, what I am talking about.

Isley may very well seem unstoppable against humans, and against Rabona's forces I can see why. But war makes people amazingly innovative. I would not be shocked if either side invented heavy artillery and poisoned ballista bolts to take on Dragonkin and Awakened Beings. Also, as powerful as Isley is, the chance that he could single-handedly stop a 100,000 man army is doubtful. Eventually I figure the army's arachers would do him in.

So yes, a Dragonkin would SEEM unstoppable, but I suspect with the building of massive fortifications, heavy artillery, the heavy use of crossbows, and perhaps even flaming grenades, they'd eventually be brought down. They may be monsters, but clearly, if superhuman girls with big swords like the Ghosts can kill Awakened Number 2s like Agatha, then it should be possible to bring down a Dragonkin by ordinary soldiers. Just expect a ton of casualties in the process though...

Think about it this way, does anyone really think Agatha could stop a poisoned ballista bolt fired at high speed at her? Make it big and fast enough, and no matter what she does it'll smash through her defenses. In Rabona's case, the issue is they're throwing spears when they should be firing crossbow bolts and ballistas at her.

[Shiek927]

Her regeneration is her primary attack. I think that counts as a special technique.

Granted, that may be evidence of Ryus' claim that her regeneration is simply "because she is so powerful" and has nothing to do with her type. That's one of the two possibilities I eluded to in my aside to Cyclone. That said, until we have further evidence in favor of this hypothesis, Occam's Razor suggests that any awakened being whose primary defining characteristic is her absurd regenerative capabilities is, in fact, a defensive type.

I'm having difficulty believing that regeneration is the same as attacking.

Are you implying that the only time she attacks is when she regenerates? That's beyond silly; How do you explain how she trumped Rigardo then? He didn't land a dent.

You seem to think that the only time she fights back, is when she releases her power when she is damaged; you're putting far too much weight into her battle with Isley. She has dominated the Twins and Riful without attacking as part of regeneration. The only time I remember her regenerating in the recent battles, is when she regenerated her arm...and I don't see how that qualifies as an attack in the least, especially when she was walking away from Beth at the time.

Shoot, and is she really getting damaged? She sure doesn't seem to notice when she loses a limb. It may not even be called "regeneration" in the sense that she's healing herself, then she is just giving herself her limbs back. Riful for one, has had her head sliced and didn't feel a thing. But she gets it chomped by a mightier opponent, and it's the biggest she ever felt. Their's a difference between what looks horrific to these guys, and what's actually damaging.

It's mind-boggling how someone can say that Regeneration=Attack, they couldn't be further apart. You seem to think the only way she can attack, is like what happened with Isley; if her arms get cut off and she lashes out in the middle of regenerating.

If both regeneration and an attack happens at the same time, because she's releasing her power, like what we saw against Isley, that's coincidence. "Handicap" doesn't even begin to describe if a person was unable to fight back until he/she was damaged first.

And of course, their are the other factors; about personality and her behavior, like the other users have said. I'd get into it more, but that's already been covered.

Rigardo's words imply that she, logically, simply has the biggest reservoir of anyone in existance due to her vast power, which is what explains her monstrous lightning-quick regeneration, among all her other abilities. That's an added benefit, not an technique.

But in the end, all it is, is power. Just because she has the most, doesn't make it really unique or special, it's simply more. Her suppression abilities are on a degree more then any other, which is why that's actually more noteworthy then her potential. It was her suppression technique after all, that made it look like she could beat Teresa, the reason she was assigned to that mission. It wasn't because of her potential or what she could become later. If all she had was her potential and no suppression, she wouldn't have been assigned at all because she wouldn't be able to win.

==

I have no idea what Occums Razor is or means, or has any relevance

===

[xris]

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