Spice and Wolf - Episode 11 Discussion / Poll

[Tri-ring]

Originally Posted by Ninjamasta

Anyway, can someone tell me how did Horo blackmail the debtor to go along with their plan? I dont understand that part where she quotes something and all of a sudden the guy painfully accepted their deal.

That's simple she merely stated the obvious that Lemerio is going down with the failure in the armor market and collecting Lawrence's debt is not going to help him one bit.
She was telling him that one by one his employees were fleeing or planning to flee from his doomed company and the only way to turn it around is go for something risky.
I might say her words of persuasion was like the devil whispering the words of temptation to one's ear, bless the lord.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by Tri-ring

That's simple she merely stated the obvious that Lemerio is going down with the failure in the armor market and collecting Lawrence's debt is not going to help him one bit.
She was telling him that one by one his employees were fleeing or planning to flee from his doomed company and the only way to turn it around is go for something risky.
I might say her words of persuasion was like the devil whispering the words of temptation to one's ear, bless the lord.

Well Horo does know all about temptation from the devil. Darn those apples, the devil's fruit .

But yeah Horo was just telling the truth and pressuring him into making the call. If he does nothing things are going to fall apart. Really though it was pretty good job she did there.

[DanielSong39]

I get the feeling that Lemerio will be ending up with the lion's share of the profits...

but is Lawrence really in a position to complain?

[Vexx]

No, he'd be just peaches happy to leave town in the same condition he was in before he bought the armor... mmmmmm, honeyed peaches.....

[Whitemoon648]

Originally Posted by Ninjamasta

Anyway, can someone tell me how did Horo blackmail the debtor to go along with their plan? I dont understand that part where she quotes something and all of a sudden the guy painfully accepted their deal.

.

Basically She talks about how people are planning to escape the city without paying their debts. So even if they have bunch of people that owe them money, if they dont pay, They will go banckrupt like them. And Romerio company is always in bad situation and are going banckrupt. She basically remind them of that fact that if they dotn do something, there will lose their future too. So he agrees.

[Vexx]

Not *exactly* .... the people who are "leaving" are the company's own employees jumping ship because the company is rapidly becoming worthless with the plummet of their assets. The company (who also owns Laurence's debt) is at the point of collapse itself. Lawrence is giving them a way out of disaster in exchange for some extra time to pay off his debt.

[LKK]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Lawrence is giving them a way out of disaster in exchange for some extra time to pay off his debt.

Extra time to pay off his debt? Or wipe it clean? I thought that if his plan works, his debt is cleared. Is that wrong? Is Lawrence only buying himself more time to pay the debt with this gold smuggling plan?

[Anh_Minh]

That, too. But it's not like his plan can be brought off in time, so he also got an extension in the bargain.

[LKK]

I get it. Thanks for clearing it up for me. I guess I managed to confuse myself even though I really did understand things correctly. That's what I get for trying to think before noontime.

[Onizuka-GTO]

i bet the fangurls loved this episode, its practically showing them how to domesticate your own man.

This little man in my head is screaming "run. danger! run! flee! hunter! arrghh"

While another part is going, "woah! i want that!"


its scary. ;_;

[todkapuz]

Hmm... that was a fun episode... such a softy Hehe... Horo never ceases to amaze me with her ways.

[TinyRedLeaf]

I've lost my enthusiasm for Spice and Wolf somewhere along the way, possibly around the start of the second arc. I can't put a finger on it, except perhaps that the show has not turned out the way I've imagined. Of course, that's not a fault of its own, but rather a problem of my own making.

It's nice to see Lawrence and Horo making up. Sure enough, Horo comes up with a great plan to save Lawrence's tail. Even more expectedly, Nora is getting involved. From an objective point-of-view, everything is going more-or-less according to plan. I should be thrilled. But I'm not. Reason being, it all seems so contrived.

So what happens when the story itself doesn't draw me any more? I start examining the other factors, such as animation, artwork and character designs. Unfortunately, none of these factors attract me as much as I would love them to do so.

Of course, my dislike is purely a subjective opinion. Perhaps my judgement is warped because I've found Horo irritating more often than I've found her cute and endearing. Haha, I guess needy, cute-for-the-sake-of-cuteness type of female behaviour just isn't my thing. The real problem though, I suspect that many background details from the novel have been excluded from the anime. Details about the world and its coming-and-goings that I would have loved, but were unfortunately axed in favour of run-of-the-mill romance and adventure. Spice and Wolf is good, but it could have been greater, I suspect. It's not living up to the full potential of its original premise.

Regarding the gold smuggling, it seems like a risky plan, but one that has a good chance of success. Firstly, it's because Nora is familiar with the shortcut and she has her ways of dealing with its particular dangers. Secondly, it's because Horo is around to provide "insurance". The only major danger that Nora or Horo may have trouble dealing with are the mercenaries-turned-bandits. In which case, Horo would probably have to "go wolf" one more time. That's an unlikely scenario.

I'm not sure why people keep harping on Lawrence's alleged mistake for buying on credit. Businessmen go on credit all the time. It's part and parcel of entrepreneurship, folks. It's all about taking calculated risks. If you have a great business idea, but possess no capital to start the plan, you'd naturally turn to credit or loans for much-needed cash. But a risk is still a risk, and even the best laid plans can go wrong, as it did for Lawrence. I put it down to bad luck. That's all.

And as for the business associates who ran away rather than help, that's very normal as well. Friends in adversity are friends in need — through this incident, Lawrence found out who his true friends are. Assuming he survives this incident (of course he would, otherwise there'd be no show), it's a lesson well worth learning.

One more episode to resolve this arc. Now that we're so near the end, I wonder why the producers went ahead with only 13 episodes in the first place. Was it due to a lack of time or resources? In the end, there are times when the show feels rushed and under-developed. More could have been done to make this a landmark show. As it is, it's merely entertaining.

[kissthestick]

My respect for Nora just went up +10

Cant wait for the next ep

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

I'm not sure why people keep harping on Lawrence's alleged mistake for buying on credit. Businessmen go on credit all the time. It's part and parcel of entrepreneurship, folks. It's all about taking calculated risks. If you have a great business idea, but possess no capital to start the plan, you'd naturally turn to credit or loans for much-needed cash. But a risk is still a risk, and even the best laid plans can go wrong, as it did for Lawrence. I put it down to bad luck. That's all.

I put it down to unbelievable lack of information. While I'm at it, if the bandits are such a problem they disrupt trade, why aren't the authorities and/or the big merchant houses doing something about it? Even if it doesn't make the armor prices as high as an actual large scale expedition, it should at least keep them a sellable commodity.

As for buying on credit... Sure, at the start of a career, when one has no capital at all, it's understandable. But he was very close to having enough money for his dream, and he risked not only getting back to square one (which, admittedly, he does with every transaction), but having his teeth pulled out before being sent to his death as an oarsman or miner. All for a little more profit.

And as for the business associates who ran away rather than help, that's very normal as well. Friends in adversity are friends in need — through this incident, Lawrence found out who his true friends are. Assuming he survives this incident (of course he would, otherwise there'd be no show), it's a lesson well worth learning.

I think he knew, but what else could he do?

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

I've lost my enthusiasm for Spice and Wolf somewhere along the way, possibly around the start of the second arc. I can't put a finger on it, except perhaps that the show has not turned out the way I've imagined. Of course, that's not a fault of its own, but rather a problem of my own making.
....
In the end, there are times when the show feels rushed and under-developed. More could have been done to make this a landmark show. As it is, it's merely entertaining.

I thinks it a form of "glass half-full or half-empty" perhaps? I, despite being a serious 'shipper for the series -- also see the problems you've described. It should have been longer, what were they thinking with the budget versus the rich source material, etc, etc.

But, for my part, I guess I'm focusing on that faint glimmer I can see through the "puppet show" and "readers digest" anime adaptation.

Thanks for the analysis, I'll take a "negative" review like that any day

[TinyRedLeaf]

I'm lamenting the wasted potential of the show rather than giving it a negative review per se. Taken on its own merits, I cannot deny that Spice and Wolf is an effective romance/adventure story with an attractive female lead. I only wish it could be more. So yeah, the glass is half-empty.

Perhaps I'm also reacting against the excessive fawning over Horo. I see her as a flawed character and it would have been so much more satisfying if the producers could have explored those aspects of her personality more fully. As it stands, I can't shake the irritation over how easily she escapes criticism because she is pretty eye-candy.

To a large extent, it's all about different strokes for different people. Spice and Wolf to me is like Romeo and Juliet in comparison to Hamlet or Othello. It's fluff, but at least it's entertaining fluff. It could have been a complete dud, but happily, it didn't turn out that way.

[Vestus]

This series has only 13 episodes!?!?! Wow, I really liked this series so far. I thought it would be around 24 episodes judging from the progress of the show. I was expecting for Chole to make a comeback and learn more about her. As well as learning more about the other characters (Lawrence, Horo, and Nora). Now, I feel really disappointed. I feel a sense of incompleteness of this series.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

I'm lamenting the wasted potential of the show rather than giving it a negative review per se. Taken on its own merits, I cannot deny that Spice and Wolf is an effective romance/adventure story with an attractive female lead. I only wish it could be more. So yeah, the glass is half-empty.

Perhaps I'm also reacting against the excessive fawning over Horo. I see her as a flawed character and it would have been so much more satisfying if the producers could have explored those aspects of her personality more fully. As it stands, I can't shake the irritation over how easily she escapes criticism because she is pretty eye-candy.

Flawed how? As in, she has her faults (like selfishness, childishness, whatever) or she's not written perfectly?

And criticism by whom? Lawrence, or the audience?


If we're talking about her faults... I find them more endearing than anything. It's all about how she presents them.

[TinyRedLeaf]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

As in, she has her faults (like selfishness, childishness, whatever)

Yup. As for whether she's "written perfectly", short of reading the light novel, I can't really judge. From the anime perspective however, Horo feels a bit superficial to me. She possesses a great deal of feminine wile, which can be both good or bad. I'd like to see the anime writers explore more of the bad.

Originally Posted by Anh-Minh

And criticism by whom? Lawrence, or the audience?

From me! As far as I recall, I think I've been the only vocal critic of Horo's performance. Maybe I'm biased. You're welcome to take my criticisms with a pinch of salt.

[Anh_Minh]

So... You're irritated that you don't criticize her enough because she's cute?