AnimeSuki Forums

Kanon · 2011-01-30, 09:39

After seeing what happened with Miura... I can't say for sure he's wrong not to trust his newbie editor.

james0246 · 2011-01-30, 10:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kafriel

He is supposed to make some kind of mistake, personally I think not trusting his editor will be his doom. Not saying that getting an extra opinion is bad, but trusting forum dudes over people who make a living out of editing works like his? Guess it just comes down to "his way" of reaching the top.

The problem is that, legally speaking, the various commenter’s and critiques Nanamine used to re-master his work could come back and bite him in the ass. Specifically, if just one of these commentators were to buy an issue of Shounen Jump and see their specific edit of Nanamine's work, or a specific idea of theirs that Nanamine incorporated into his work, then that commentator would have grounds for a lawsuit (especially if said commentator has documentation proving that he or she helped in the creation of Nanamine's work) against not only Nanamine, but Shounen Jump as well as Shueisha...or at least they would be in America (I am unclear as to specific publishing laws in Japan). Additionally, it is hard to imagine that Nanamine could accomplish similar results in a weekly series...

Whatever the case, I expect Nanamine will have a sharp rise and a spectacular fall...

Sol Falling · 2011-01-30, 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by KLGChaos

I don't like the new guy and the way they're making him out to be some new manga genius that everyone loves, when quite a few people RL people didn't really like Classroom of Truth that much. :P

Er, yeah, true. Classroom of Truth in an actual seinen mag? A snooze that'd quickly fall into mediocrity, I think. There's only so many times you can drill 'humans suck' into peoples' heads before it gets boring.

It sure seems 'revolutionary' in a shounen context, though. I think the more important aspect of newbie's skill is his proficiency at conceptualization (a psychological battle of hide and seek against yourself? Definitely great enough an idea for a few chapters' material), which shows in his next work being called 'great' despite being suitable for shounen.

New guy sure will fail though, ultimately. Despite the way he talked about Niizuma, I don't think you get to be top in shounen by 'thinking' (calculating).

Xagzan · 2011-01-30, 11:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

I don't think you get to be top in shounen by 'thinking' (calculating).

Hah, wonder what that says about Jump's audience

Kafriel · 2011-01-30, 11:20

Quote:

the various commenter’s and critiques Nanamine used to re-master his work could come back and bite him in the ass. Specifically, if just one of these commentators were to buy an issue of Shounen Jump and see their specific edit of Nanamine's work, or a specific idea of theirs that Nanamine incorporated into his work, then that commentator would have grounds for a lawsuit

Can't really prove you're someone on the internet though...can you?

Quote:

I don't think you get to be top in shounen by 'thinking'

True, it's actually quite the opposite, that's why Eiji has an advantage over the others, he is such a fanboy that he knows exactly what fans want, and delivers with Crow. I think one of the editors had commented on his love for manga somewhere in the earlier chapters too.

james0246 · 2011-01-30, 11:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kafriel

Can't really prove you're someone on the internet though...can you?

There are IP addresses, meta-data, etc that all disagree with you, especially if the commentators had copies of the unpublished materials (which would have data all its own). Anonymity is only skin-deep on the internet...

Kafriel · 2011-01-30, 12:04

With proxies, hacks and remote control, you can maintain anonymity for the most part...but yeah, if they had copies of the unpublished materials, I guess that would be it. Can't imagine trials in Bakuman though

james0246 · 2011-01-30, 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kafriel

With proxies, hacks and remote control, you can maintain anonymity for the most part...but yeah, if they had copies of the unpublished materials, I guess that would be it.

Even then, as long as you are willing to supply your computer as evidence, the data can still be found (it is much harder to find someone over the internet than it is to confirm your own identity on the internet)...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kafriel

Can't imagine trials in Bakuman though

Bakuman does aim for exaggerated realism, and a court case over copyright could be fun

...

Kafriel · 2011-01-30, 12:57

Quote:

Bakuman does aim for exaggerated realism, and a court case over copyright could be fun ...

And then it would be renamed to Phoenix Wright

Hmm, there's plenty of room to diverge from the main plot (which is the currently near-forgotten PCP), so it's not impossible to get one!

Johnny · 2011-01-30, 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by james0246

There are IP addresses, meta-data, etc that all disagree with you, especially if the commentators had copies of the unpublished materials (which would have data all its own). Anonymity is only skin-deep on the internet...

Remind me not to piss you off otherwise I might find a horse's head outside my door one morning...

I just hope this little thing won't last too long and they get back into the swing of things with their manga. Although it seems they're spitting in characters left n' right if compared to the first 100 or so chapters...

On another note that has me somewhat confused. I thought they already did get an anime offer for PCP? If so were they basically blowing smoke when they told them that it wouldn't get any offers?

DJ Trouble · 2011-01-30, 17:42

PCP received offers for an anime, but it's not something they can make into an anime. They're afraid kids would try to imitate the pranks in the manga, which would be very bad.

I like the new guy, he's fun. I'm glad Shujin saw through him, though. I think this new kid is basically going to be a stepping stone for Ashirogi's new work. Well, that's what I'm hoping. It'd be a complete waste of time if they didn't manage to learn something from this kid.

And it'd be really interesting if the kid met Niizuma, and Niizuma didn't like him, seeing right through his act and calling him on it on the spot. Too bad that probably won't happen.

lightbringer · 2011-01-30, 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanon

I thought the editor in chief would be able to see through Nanamine, but nope, he was fooled like everyone else.

The editor in chief knows exactly what Nanamine is doing, and he all but says as much in the chapter if you read carefully. It's just that, for him, the bottom line is whether the manga is interesting or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by d3ad3r

Eiji still has the 'cancel one manga' card, doesn't he? Maybe it's time to be put to good use.

Wasn't there an "ask me again once you make it to number one" stipulation on that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by james0246

The problem is that, legally speaking, the various commenter’s and critiques Nanamine used to re-master his work could come back and bite him in the ass. Specifically, if just one of these commentators were to buy an issue of Shounen Jump and see their specific edit of Nanamine's work, or a specific idea of theirs that Nanamine incorporated into his work, then that commentator would have grounds for a lawsuit (especially if said commentator has documentation proving that he or she helped in the creation of Nanamine's work) against not only Nanamine, but Shounen Jump as well as Shueisha...or at least they would be in America (I am unclear as to specific publishing laws in Japan). Additionally, it is hard to imagine that Nanamine could accomplish similar results in a weekly series...

Whatever the case, I expect Nanamine will have a sharp rise and a spectacular fall...

This does not compute, because ideas are not covered by copyright, only their concrete expressions are. He can't legally get into trouble for using their ideas, even in the USA. They wouldn't have any legal basis to stand on unless they were to actually contribute to the work themselves physically (for instance, they actually edit a page themselves with pen and ink and he uses that page, or they write dialogue for him and he uses it word for word). Bouncing back and forth ideas and getting peer review is rather common in various scenarios (academics, fiction or non-fiction authors, etc). Ideas are, in fact, covered by patent laws. But that's irrelevant to the process he's using here. Well, OTOH, whether someone has a legal basis for a case or not is not always directly correlated to the decision to sue or not (but likelihood is high of the case being dismissed).

SoFarGone · 2011-02-05, 16:35

Spoiler for 119:

Kafriel · 2011-02-05, 17:40

Spoiler for 119:

LeaD36 · 2011-02-05, 18:28

trollface in a manga would be... epic! It's not copyrightable (atleast i think it isn't). Mb Ohba-sensei will think something up, i'd be like LOOOL.
oh and those faces the editor/akito made, priceless as always^^
though Hiramaru steals the show ... AGAIN! He rlly needs his own spin-off, that guy is a gag machine^^

lordshadowisle · 2011-02-05, 21:25

I know that the new guy seems to be portrayed as a villain in a series that otherwise has few villains, but I actually agree with his collaborative method of writing. It's probably too pig-headed to totally discount the merits of Nanamine's method and trump up the superiority of the traditional editor-creator system. Shuujin recognizes this a bit, I think.

I'm guessing that the "best" way would be somewhere in between the two extremes. Of course when relying on net feedback you'll eventually run into problems like having contradictory or even bad feedback, but we've already seen that editors don't always give good advice *cough* miura *cough*. Ultimately some form of experience and skill will be needed to pick out the good points from the advice of the masses. That's how I'm predicting things will turn out; Nanamine will fail or be defeated, but his method would be exposed to be effective. Or the other way round, he will succeed but his method revealed to be incomplete.

Final point: nanamine is a portrayed as villain. But that's because he has the villainous personality (scheming, arrogant). We should distance his methods from his person.

kk2extreme · 2011-02-05, 21:45

This may be the best way to make good manga, but not the best way to get publish. Just wait till the manga get distribute all over the net and the publisher has to pull the piece from ever being shown in the mag.

The legal issues that follow could get really messy, and he could get axed and never have a chance to get publish again in any mag

Kanon · 2011-02-06, 09:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeaD36

though Hiramaru steals the show ... AGAIN! He rlly needs his own spin-off, that guy is a gag machine^^

Quoted for truth. Whoa, the amount of pictures of "Yuritan" he's got is impressive

I'm a bit disappointed he's made no progress with her ever since he confessed, but thanks to this, Yoshida-shi can manipulate motivate him into writing something good.

Nanamine was totally "Light"-esque again this chapter. Getting advice from people isn't a bad idea, but 50 people may be too much. Until now, I thought he collected each person's opinion seperately, but it turns out they all meet together online. These meetings will become counterproductive after a while. No way they can agree on everything. Not to mention, some of them might grow frustrated not to receive any credit (or monetary compensation) for their ideas. This whole thing will blow up in Nanamine's face, I'm sure of it.

Xion Valkyrie · 2011-02-06, 17:14

Remember those stories where 2chan people found that certain mangakas plagiarized, and the resulting backlash from the general public?

A few of those 50 will probably think they deserve some of the credit, and when they can reproduce the pages that they helped draw/fix, then public opinion is going to turn again Hiramaru.

However, I do agree with him that 50 people who really know their stuff is way better than 1 amateur editor. It's just that he's too confident that those 50 people will always be submissive to him, when at least a few of them are probably just as conniving as he is.

Claies · 2011-02-06, 21:40

As many have said, Nanamine would be good for no more than half a year published. What he doesn't understand is that "friends" and "partners" are two different things. As Ashirogi Muto treat Hattori as a partner, they work on the same interests and all have the same image of success and work together for it. Nanamine's "friends" are not on his side, they work for themselves. As soon as they ask for fair compensation and credit or develop divergent ideas on how to carry the story forward, the whole thing will collapse.

I think Saiko has noticed that, and is just taking it slow and not really worried about it.

This is getting very predictable, though. I hope the collapse doesn't just happen once. I want to see Nanamine recover from one meltdown, ruthlessly expel the majority of friends from his circle, and attempt to carry on while maintaining wild popular support. The expelled friends can then try to rally half the concerned internet to rig votes for Ashirogi Muto and others (who just get really annoyed and will have nothing to do with this) in a war to topple Nanamine and his group's popular support. The Shueisha office is then pressured to take action. (Oh look, another chance for Eiji to play his cancel card.) I'd appreciate that kind of dynamic.

I want to see the nerd rage, man.

2011-01-30, 09:39	Link #1761
Kanon Kana Hanazawa ♥ Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: France Age: 37	After seeing what happened with Miura... I can't say for sure he's wrong not to trust his newbie editor. __________________

2011-01-30, 17:42	Link #1771
DJ Trouble Pajama Party! Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nowhere	PCP received offers for an anime, but it's not something they can make into an anime. They're afraid kids would try to imitate the pranks in the manga, which would be very bad. I like the new guy, he's fun. I'm glad Shujin saw through him, though. I think this new kid is basically going to be a stepping stone for Ashirogi's new work. Well, that's what I'm hoping. It'd be a complete waste of time if they didn't manage to learn something from this kid. And it'd be really interesting if the kid met Niizuma, and Niizuma didn't like him, seeing right through his act and calling him on it on the spot. Too bad that probably won't happen. __________________

2011-02-05, 16:35	Link #1773
SoFarGone H.A.M. Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: somewhere on this planet	Spoiler for 119: Nanamine editor makes me mad. The guy has no backbone or something.

2011-02-05, 17:40	Link #1774
Kafriel Senior Guest Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Athens (GMT+2) Age: 35	Spoiler for 119: I'm inclined to think that our dear troll-face will definitely get trolled by his 50 cyber-friends and flunk in a moment of humiliating weakness...

2011-01-30, 12:04	Link #1767
Kafriel Senior Guest Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Athens (GMT+2) Age: 35	With proxies, hacks and remote control, you can maintain anonymity for the most part...but yeah, if they had copies of the unpublished materials, I guess that would be it. Can't imagine trials in Bakuman though

2011-02-05, 18:28	Link #1775
LeaD36 LeaDfactor Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Hungary, Budapest Age: 33	trollface in a manga would be... epic! It's not copyrightable (atleast i think it isn't). Mb Ohba-sensei will think something up, i'd be like LOOOL. oh and those faces the editor/akito made, priceless as always^^ though Hiramaru steals the show ... AGAIN! He rlly needs his own spin-off, that guy is a gag machine^^

2011-02-05, 21:25	Link #1776
lordshadowisle Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Singapore	I know that the new guy seems to be portrayed as a villain in a series that otherwise has few villains, but I actually agree with his collaborative method of writing. It's probably too pig-headed to totally discount the merits of Nanamine's method and trump up the superiority of the traditional editor-creator system. Shuujin recognizes this a bit, I think. I'm guessing that the "best" way would be somewhere in between the two extremes. Of course when relying on net feedback you'll eventually run into problems like having contradictory or even bad feedback, but we've already seen that editors don't always give good advice cough miura cough. Ultimately some form of experience and skill will be needed to pick out the good points from the advice of the masses. That's how I'm predicting things will turn out; Nanamine will fail or be defeated, but his method would be exposed to be effective. Or the other way round, he will succeed but his method revealed to be incomplete. Final point: nanamine is a portrayed as villain. But that's because he has the villainous personality (scheming, arrogant). We should distance his methods from his person.

2011-02-05, 21:45	Link #1777
kk2extreme Your wife is hot... Join Date: May 2008 Location: At your house fixing A/C	This may be the best way to make good manga, but not the best way to get publish. Just wait till the manga get distribute all over the net and the publisher has to pull the piece from ever being shown in the mag. The legal issues that follow could get really messy, and he could get axed and never have a chance to get publish again in any mag

2011-02-06, 17:14	Link #1779
Xion Valkyrie Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007	Remember those stories where 2chan people found that certain mangakas plagiarized, and the resulting backlash from the general public? A few of those 50 will probably think they deserve some of the credit, and when they can reproduce the pages that they helped draw/fix, then public opinion is going to turn again Hiramaru. However, I do agree with him that 50 people who really know their stuff is way better than 1 amateur editor. It's just that he's too confident that those 50 people will always be submissive to him, when at least a few of them are probably just as conniving as he is.

2011-02-06, 21:40	Link #1780
Claies Good-Natured Asshole. Join Date: May 2007 Age: 34	As many have said, Nanamine would be good for no more than half a year published. What he doesn't understand is that "friends" and "partners" are two different things. As Ashirogi Muto treat Hattori as a partner, they work on the same interests and all have the same image of success and work together for it. Nanamine's "friends" are not on his side, they work for themselves. As soon as they ask for fair compensation and credit or develop divergent ideas on how to carry the story forward, the whole thing will collapse. I think Saiko has noticed that, and is just taking it slow and not really worried about it. This is getting very predictable, though. I hope the collapse doesn't just happen once. I want to see Nanamine recover from one meltdown, ruthlessly expel the majority of friends from his circle, and attempt to carry on while maintaining wild popular support. The expelled friends can then try to rally half the concerned internet to rig votes for Ashirogi Muto and others (who just get really annoyed and will have nothing to do with this) in a war to topple Nanamine and his group's popular support. The Shueisha office is then pressured to take action. (Oh look, another chance for Eiji to play his cancel card.) I'd appreciate that kind of dynamic. I want to see the nerd rage, man.