2011-03-01, 00:08 | Link #3281 | |
Senior Member
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We start with the message bottles which tell the story of Rokkenjima within the story of Umineko. This is fiction in fiction. But then later we get the fact that some of the fictional events (1998 Ange in EP4) in one part were only the fiction of another character (Featherine). That fiction is not really part of the fictional universe created by the first two Episodes but is just adjecent to it. And then we have the meta-world which discusses events that are happening in a world that is a fictional recreation of a world that is observed by somebody whose quests are fictionalized by an author who is not the author of that fictional recreation... I'm not saying my answers to that problem are correct, but I think it's a lot more complex than just saying "Hachijô wrote EP4, therefore those are not Ange's exploits". |
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2011-03-01, 00:23 | Link #3282 | ||
The True Culprit
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2011-03-01, 00:31 | Link #3283 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Why a military base must necessarily be stocked with 900 tons of explosives? Who in his right mind would think that an abandoned military base would be definitely stocked with that? There is no need to deny the existence of the military base itself. She doesn't say so, she said "I'll leave behind the cursed gold". Which is what she did, since she never got it in the first place.
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2011-03-01, 00:36 | Link #3284 | ||
The True Culprit
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They're gonna have to deny SOMETHING, and there's no public evidence for the existence of such a military base outside of stories saying that there was a witch and Eva is dead and also there might have been bunny girls. Quote:
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2011-03-01, 00:43 | Link #3285 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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And yeah it seems quite logic to think that the government would want to hide such an incredible blunder, but then what kind of excuse they came up with for that explosion? Again we don't know.
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2011-03-01, 01:10 | Link #3286 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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2011-03-01, 01:13 | Link #3287 | |
The True Culprit
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Well, if the military base WASN'T found (and considering it wasn't brought up until EP7), they could claim any such thing like a terrorist bombing or a volcano eruption or whatever the hell.
Also, I just checked Rondo of Witch and Reasonng and compared it to my PC edition in both English and Japanese. The ???? describes Eva inheriting the fortune of Rokkenjima and building it like Kinzo did, showing the gold backround multiple times, and then when deciding how to torment Ange after she's gone, Eva says she'll leave Ange the fortune she's amassed and...well lemme transcribe her words. Quote:
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2011-03-01, 01:36 | Link #3288 | |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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So we might have [Parent-world [Alliance] [Dawn]], or else just [Alliance [Dawn]], but in either case Dawn can't be "more real" than Alliance is.
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2011-03-01, 08:35 | Link #3290 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Let's even accept that Eva said so and that it wasn't just a metaphor of her riches. How is that an evidence of the gold existing from the 1998 perspective? Does anything that Eva says in that situation makes any sense?
Did Ange actually see the gold at all? How the hell Eva was able to retrieve it after the incident? I'll keep my claim that there's no evidence of the gold's existence from the 1998's perspective.
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2011-03-01, 09:03 | Link #3291 |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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Pointless argument is pointless. The Tea party tells us the gold blows up in the explosion, and with the location of the gold being the chapel, which was destroyed also, that's very, very, likely.
There's a classsic Tolkein studies argument whenever a silly idea comes up that says Aragorn isn't wearing pants, because he's never described as having any and it asks you to prove otherwise by citing the book. I don't know how that's relevant, but I felt like mentioning it.
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2011-03-01, 12:07 | Link #3293 | |
Member
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2011-03-01, 13:06 | Link #3294 |
Senior Member
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I honestly still think that the final letter in Episode 1 never existed. We have only Maria's word that it existed in the first place, and there are a number of points against it:
- The letter disappeared from Natsuhi's body. - George, Jessica, and Battler walked right past it without noticing it. - Maria wasn't in a good position to see Natsuhi read the letter. - With previous letters, rather than opening them herself (which required her to set aside her gun), Natsuhi had somebody else open and read them. Remember the letter in Episode 5? It seems impossible for it to appear, and the usual explanation is that there was no letter; there is no confirmation that it existed. I think that was intended as a clue to this event.
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2011-03-01, 13:13 | Link #3295 | |||
The True Culprit
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"I will give you this terrible weapon, ALONG WITH THIS APPLE THAT REPRESENTS LOSS OF INNOCENCE DO YOU GET THE SYMBOLISM I HOPE YOU DO I'M DYING." Quote:
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2011-03-01, 14:22 | Link #3297 |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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Twice.
Beatrice explains that there is a underground passage in the VIP Room they're in that leads to a military base 2 kilometers away that will escape the blast. By that logic the VIP room with the gold will not escape the blast. Later Rosa asks about what will happen to the gold if Eva blows up the island for an explosion accident and accuses her of wanting to blow it all away. So Eva suggests carrying the gold to the military base, which of course is unrealistic as well. And it continues after that. If she's talking about cursed gold in episode 4 it's probably from the key card.
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Last edited by Judoh; 2011-03-01 at 14:43. |
2011-03-01, 16:53 | Link #3299 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
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The teaparty is likely to be mostly true, but the way the relatives act was probably picked by Bernkastel to hurt Ange and Lion as much as possible, as the whole point of showing what happened seems to be to make Ange think negatively of her parents (which Battler is against with all that loving memory thing of his) and to crush Lion's hopes of leading a succesful life. "I lost to Beatrice so I'm going to screw you -her hope of a better life-" by making you think there's no way for you to survive. I see no point in questioning the scene in the VIP room, but I also won't buy it as what happened on RPrime. The scene however acts as a hint that things might have gone horribly wrong.
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