Brexit Vote

[Ithekro]

They have their choice to make, vote or no vote. Usually depending on their party, and if I recall their is a vote for that before they vote for exit of the EU, thus if the voters put in more remain people, the UK will remain regardless of Brexit.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by bones

But they have no choice now, whether the referendum is legally binding or not is moot. In order to govern or negotiate deals you need the people you are representing and the people you are brokering with to have a certain amount of faith in you. Take away that faith and your words and actions are like a fart in the wind.

not entirely,

1. You elect representative to represent your best interest. Sometimes what you want is not what you need and it the elected official job to make that determination.

2. When Cameron resign on 9/2, the conservative will elected a new leader. Most likely a new general election would be call as well. If (a big IF) representatives running on a platform of not invoking article 50 gains a majority. Voting to Invoke Article 50 would be voting against the wish of their constituency.

[Ithekro]

Does the vote have to make it through the House of Commons and the House of Lords? Or does that happen all at once.

[bones]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

not entirely,

1. You elect representative to represent your best interest. Sometimes what you want is not what you need and it the elected official job to make that determination.

2. When Cameron resign on 9/2, the conservative will elected a new leader. Most likely a new general election would be call as well. If (a big IF) representatives running on a platform of not invoking article 50 gains a majority. Voting to Invoke Article 50 would be voting against the wish of their constituency.

That feels like the whole issue is getting strangled with political and legal manoeuvres. It definitely won't inspire any sort of confidence in the EU members.

[Bri]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

I would understand that if the context was a discussion regarding the EU disband or something remotely like that.
Here, he is trying to "appeal" for deals between the EU and UK.

It is just simple as that: there is no need or point to show such kind of hostility even moreso when 1) he made his stance clear for years 2) that the UK is destined to be on its own due to the referendum.
Demanding deals and appealing for adult-like behavior while insulting/humiliating the other party all the way is plainly moronic.

And no, Farage can't even be considered as the "opposing party" anymore considering UK is practically out of EU now. He is pretty much representing an outsider, and making such approach will just damage EU and UK relationship.
It doesn't matter if he truly believe that EU as an institution should be eliminated. It is the fact that he went to "plead" for UK's connection to the EU common market while shitting on the said partners.

That's pretty much asking for the advantages of the EU as a market, while not paying the cost and giving the middle finger instead. No one in their right mind would start favorable transactions with a business partner acting like that.

Farage doesn't want a trade deal, his interests do not align with those of his country. The more the EU acts against the UK, the more his party can blame the EU for the coming economic downturn and profit in future elections. Populists need an enemy to blame. His party's actions in the European parliament show they only used it to finance their party but never protected British interests.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/85563e82-8...#axzz4D0FKQZnG

UKIP's only concern is immigration, and the easiest way to stop immigration is to turn your country in to a hellhole that no one wants to visit.

[Ithekro]

I am pretty sure that exit from the EU doesn't do much to stem immigration since there is still the large number of migrants that come from other Commonwealth countries and former colonies of the British Empire (of which there were a lot).

It might allow for the UK to make their own policies regarding immigration, but I don't think they have as much an issue with illegal immigration as a country with land borders. The UK is surrounded by seas with their links to the mainland being boats, planes, and rail. You can't walk to England for the continent unless you are Jesus, and I doubt he'd have to do so.

[Draco Spirit]

Most of the negative immigration issue are in working class industrial areas tbh. Places like the NHS actually tend to want immigrants by contrast. Leaving the EU will hopefully give the UK the ability to properly apply values and controls again, adjusting rules based on different sectors needs.

BTW Nigel really -hates- the EU. I don't think what he did was tactically smart for the UK, but I get why he acted that way. Funny enough he married to German, so he's hardly anti-European... but the EU clearly rubs him up the wrong way.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

I am pretty sure that exit from the EU doesn't do much to stem immigration since there is still the large number of migrants that come from other Commonwealth countries and former colonies of the British Empire (of which there were a lot).

It might allow for the UK to make their own policies regarding immigration, but I don't think they have as much an issue with illegal immigration as a country with land borders. The UK is surrounded by seas with their links to the mainland being boats, planes, and rail. You can't walk to England for the continent unless you are Jesus, and I doubt he'd have to do so.

There's a tunnel, so you theoretically could. (Migrants generally try to smuggle themselves on vehicles.)

And of course, people have crossed the Channel by swimming. Though I don't know if any migrant's done it.

And there is now a bit of a will in France to just send the Calais migrants on to Dover, but I don't know how that would work out, legally and practically.

[Bri]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

I am pretty sure that exit from the EU doesn't do much to stem immigration since there is still the large number of migrants that come from other Commonwealth countries and former colonies of the British Empire (of which there were a lot).

It might allow for the UK to make their own policies regarding immigration, but I don't think they have as much an issue with illegal immigration as a country with land borders. The UK is surrounded by seas with their links to the mainland being boats, planes, and rail. You can't walk to England for the continent unless you are Jesus, and I doubt he'd have to do so.

It's not about illegal immigration but a fear of Islam (think Red Scare) and resentment against low wage competition with East European migrants, and if Turkey enters the EU, possibly Turkish migrants in the future.

[Ithekro]

Considering how many Islamic colonies the British had in the Empire, you'd think they would be use to it by now. Iraq was a British territory for several decades between the world wars.

[Brother Coa]

"Obama: 'Brexit would freeze the possibilities of investment in Great Britain or in Europe as a whole."

Furthermore: "Mr Obama was speaking at a summit in Ottawa with the leaders of Canada and Mexico, aimed at strengthening economic ties between North American countries."

So due to world growth fall USA is going to "isolate" and strengthen economic relationships with Canada and Mexico. At least that's the plan for now.

So theoretically: how would complete stop of US investment in Europe effect EU and UK in general?

[Newhope]

The world economy was already basically flatlining and has been for the last year, Brexit just gives them an something to blame and an excuse to double down on the absurd money printing.

[Bri]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Considering how many Islamic colonies the British had in the Empire, you'd think they would be use to it by now. Iraq was a British territory for several decades between the world wars.

The problem isn't the religion as such, but the formation of an ultra conservative subculture among alienated and poorly integrated second generation immigrants, which in turn creates tensions in working class neighborhoods and urban areas.

[OH&S]

Originally Posted by Bri

The problem isn't the religion as such, but the formation of an ultra conservative subculture among alienated and poorly integrated second generation immigrants, which in turn creates tensions in working class neighborhoods and urban areas.

This may be the most succinct description of the root problem that I've ever read.

[Brother Coa]

Seems like good old Boris will not become Prime Minister of UK after all.

So that only leaves Farage as possible candidate?

edit:

"Home Secretary Theresa May: The 59-year-old is the bookies' favourite to win the contest. She's held the Home Office brief - often something of a poisoned chalice - since 2010, and is a former Tory party chairman. She says she can offer the "strong leadership" and unity the UK needs, and promised a "positive vision" for the country's future. She backed staying in the EU.

Justice Secretary Michael Gove: The 48-year-old former newspaper columnist was a key figure in the party's modernisation that led to its return to power in 2010. He was a reforming, if controversial, education secretary between 2010 and 2014, and now holds the Ministry of Justice brief. He was a leading player in the Brexit campaign - which put a strain on his close friendship with David Cameron. He has pitched himself as the candidate that can provide "unity and change."

Work and Pensions Secretary Stephen Crabb: The 43-year-old was promoted to the cabinet in 2014 as Welsh secretary, and boosted his profile earlier this year when he took over as work and pensions secretary. A rising star of the Tory party he has promised to unite the party and country following the referendum result and provide stability. Raised on a council estate by a single mother, he has a back story to which many Tory MPs are attracted. Backed Remain.

Energy minister Andrea Leadsom: The 53-year-old former banker and fund manager was one of the stars of the Leave campaign. A former district councillor, she became MP for South Northamptonshire in 2010 and - after serving as a junior Treasury minister and as a member of the Treasury select committee - she was made a junior minister in the energy and climate change department in May last year.

Former cabinet minister Liam Fox: It's second time around for the 54-year-old ex-defence secretary and GP, who came a close third in the 2005 leadership contest. His cabinet career was cut short in 2011 when he resigned following a lobbying row. A Brexit campaigner, and on the right of the party, he has said whoever becomes PM must accept "the instruction" of the British people and not "try to backslide" over EU membership."

[MCAL]

This is just sad. There's just no other way to describe this.

Brexit isn't happening people.

[Draco Spirit]

It be political suicide for the Conservative party if it doesn't. Good half of the population voted out and since the Referendum there been economical chaos. So if the Conservatives then turn round and say 'woops joking, we just wanted to screw with the economy lol", you can expect there voting base to leave them in droves.

UKIP likely be the big winner from that fallout, which mean we might end up with Nigel as the PM and two Brexit events, and you can bet he push the second one through as a election pledge.

[Brother Coa]

Never-mind that EU doesn't want Britain as it's member anymore and they are pushing to get her out from the Union as fast as possible.

Brexit will happen, the only question is who is the poor sad who will start it.

Beside, among the ones who are proposed there are 2 pro-Remain and 3 pro-Leave.

[Sides]

Originally Posted by Brother Coa

Brexit will happen, the only question is who is the poor sad who will start it.

That is why Boris doesn't want the job, for the time being. But after the Exit kicks off and the next general election takes place, he will be back in the game. If anything Gove is basically helping him and taking the bullet for the exit mess. Becasue whatever the next PM does, people will criticises and blame him or her for every single move. So for Boris to come in as saviour that would look better and benefit him for his long term aims as PM.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Consider that neither party really wanted Brexit, why not both refuse to contest the next election and let Farage win? Farage would be happy to sign article 50, then get blamed for everything and be dumped afterwards.

I am only half-joking. Frankly I don't understand what is the big deal, what's done is done. No point dragging this out.