Fate/ Series Q&A

[GDB]

Originally Posted by theforgot3n1

In HF, the ending,

Spoiler for The ending:

why didn't Sakura just call Lancer out to own Rin?

Spoiler for Heaven's Feel:

Lancer was eaten to power the Shadow. Unlike Saber and Berserker, who were corrupted and taken over, he was killed.

[Ithekro]

Spoiler for Being Lancer is suffering:

"(Lancer) was killed."

"You aren't human!"


Otherwise known as:

"Oh my god, they killed Lancer!"

"You bastards!"

[Thess]

Originally Posted by theforgot3n1

In HF, the ending,

Spoiler for The ending:

why didn't Sakura just call Lancer out to own Rin?

Also,

Spoiler for More Spoilers:

why weren't we able to read what Shirou was whispering to Rider as his plans for the ultimate battle?

Spoiler for er:

Lancer was killed by Hassan when the Shadow jumped him. He couldn't be darkened because he was already dead. It wasn't the case of Saber or Berserker.

[Touko]

Originally Posted by TheCuriousFan

Why was it in the collection of weapons from the Arm seen when Shirou first woke up after the surgery to attach Archer's arm then?

"Can't produce it" does not equate to he was not able to analyze it.

Alternatively, you need to consider the possibility that Fate recycles CGs. It is entirely possible they just chose to dump a bunch of existing weapon CGs to make a quick flashing sequence.

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Might be possible as Broken Phantasms.

Broken Phantasms are not fundamentally different from the Noble Phantasm. To make a Broken Phantasm, you have to first produce the Noble Phantasm.

[theforgot3n1]

Question!

Spoiler for Fate Route!:

In the Fate route, it really felt like Archer really didn't care about getting Shirou killed. It was not even close to his enmity in UBW. Why, especially as the Fate route is most likely going to result in heroic spirit Archer?

Question!

Spoiler for Hollow Ataraxia!:

How is Shirous so understanding of everything, knowing of his abilities, as if he had experienced all routes. At for example when he met Archer before the bridge think, he knew about Archers grudge.

^_^

[Vicious108]

Originally Posted by theforgot3n1

Question!

Spoiler for Fate Route!:

In the Fate route, it really felt like Archer really didn't care about getting Shirou killed. It was not even close to his enmity in UBW. Why, especially as the Fate route is most likely going to result in heroic spirit Archer?

Because in Fate he didn't get the chance to hear Shirou go on about his ideals like he did in UBW after the fight against Caster.

[mAc Chaos]

Don't forget that he was injured by Saber, so he was in no place to fight. Plus, securing Rin and Saber's safety was also one his top priorities.

In UBW, he was at full power so he was able to handle going it alone, but in Fate he was in no shape to defend Rin from Berserker or anyone else. If he went rogue at that point everybody would have been killed by Ilya.

[TheCuriousFan]

Originally Posted by Touko

"Can't produce it" does not equate to he was not able to analyze it.

Alternatively, you need to consider the possibility that Fate recycles CGs. It is entirely possible they just chose to dump a bunch of existing weapon CGs to make a quick flashing sequence.

If it's in UBW (which it would be if he could analyse it) Shirou can make it.

[theforgot3n1]

Originally Posted by mAc Chaos

Don't forget that he was injured by Saber, so he was in no place to fight. Plus, securing Rin and Saber's safety was also one his top priorities.

In UBW, he was at full power so he was able to handle going it alone, but in Fate he was in no shape to defend Rin from Berserker or anyone else. If he went rogue at that point everybody would have been killed by Ilya.

I see... but didn't Archer say somewhere like, "So to keep myself from going insane, I've been hoping for this very oppurtunity to end both me and you". Why would he care about THGW when he got that one in a lifetime oppurtunity.

I'm pretty sure Archer could just backstab Shirou at any time, even with his weakness. :P

[sona-nyl]

Because he cares about Rin and Ilya, and Saber to some extent as well.

[Vicious108]

Originally Posted by theforgot3n1

I see... but didn't Archer say somewhere like, "So to keep myself from going insane, I've been hoping for this very oppurtunity to end both me and you". Why would he care about THGW when he got that one in a lifetime oppurtunity.

I'm pretty sure Archer could just backstab Shirou at any time, even with his weakness. :P

Archer didn't really want to kill Shirou. Actions speak louder than words here. By the end of UBW it becomes clear that what he had been looking for all along was reassurance about his life and the way it had turned out, which is why he needed to face his younger self and confront him with the end result of the insanely arduous path he set out for himself. He didn't really get a chance to do so in Fate or HF, but when he does in UBW (first and partially after the fight against Caster), Shirou's blind faith in his ideals makes him hopeless in Archer's eyes and that's when he decides to make killing him his goal, basically as a means of lashing out a lifetime of suffering and regret (I really doubt he seriously believed the whole paradox thing, that's a little too optimistic for cynical Heroic Spirit Emiya). But deep down what he truly wanted was for Shirou to give him reassurance about their decision to pursue Kiritsugu's ideal.

Some of that is my interpretation of the character, but it's really what makes more sense, since, if killing Shirou had really been his goal in the Holy Grail War all along, then surely he would have acted on it from the start and not only after having to swallow Shirou's BS after saving him from Caster in UBW.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by theforgot3n1

I'm pretty sure Archer could just backstab Shirou at any time, even with his weakness. :P

Why? So Saber will kill him after Shirou heals due to Avalon? Even the residual mana from her presence in UBW helped keep Shirou up during their battle.

[mAc Chaos]

Rin would just command seal his ass instantly. He had to go through a million hoops and things that just ended up falling into place perfectly in UBW.

Plus after all that, even if he was successful, everyone he cares about in the War would end up dead thanks to the usual suspects.

[Touko]

Originally Posted by TheCuriousFan

If it's in UBW (which it would be if he could analyse it) Shirou can make it.

Nope.

A successful projection starts from Shirou's accurate analysis. However, he still needs to reproduce all the histories, mysteries, and materials that form the weapon. It is pointed out that Divine Weapons are beyond the reproducibility of UBW, so it's like you know how to make ice cream, but you don't have refrigeration (or cream), so you can't make ice cream.

[theforgot3n1]

Originally Posted by GDB

Why? So Saber will kill him after Shirou heals due to Avalon? Even the residual mana from her presence in UBW helped keep Shirou up during their battle.

I was thinking more like, his whole mission there is to kill Shirou (he wants to prevent "himself" from becoming Archer). I was thinking he'd do everything to get Shirou down, and then just concede his life, or run away, to prevent the whole loop-hole thing.

[theforgot3n1]

Originally Posted by Endless Twilight

Archer didn't really want to kill Shirou. Actions speak louder than words here. By the end of UBW it becomes clear that what he had been looking for all along was reassurance about his life and the way it had turned out, which is why he needed to face his younger self and confront him with the end result of the insanely arduous path he set out for himself. He didn't really get a chance to do so in Fate or HF, but when he does in UBW (first and partially after the fight against Caster), Shirou's blind faith in his ideals makes him hopeless in Archer's eyes and that's when he decides to make killing him his goal, basically as a means of lashing out a lifetime of suffering and regret (I really doubt he seriously believed the whole paradox thing, that's a little too optimistic for cynical Heroic Spirit Emiya). But deep down what he truly wanted was for Shirou to give him reassurance about their decision to pursue Kiritsugu's ideal.

Some of that is my interpretation of the character, but it's really what makes more sense, since, if killing Shirou had really been his goal in the Holy Grail War all along, then surely he would have acted on it from the start and not only after having to swallow Shirou's BS after saving him from Caster in UBW.

Hm, I see.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by theforgot3n1

I was thinking more like, his whole mission there is to kill Shirou (he wants to prevent "himself" from becoming Archer). I was thinking he'd do everything to get Shirou down, and then just concede his life, or run away, to prevent the whole loop-hole thing.

But things don't fall into place for him to do that in the Fate route. He needs to remove Saber's link from Shirou so that he doesn't just lolAvalon, and he either needs to do it in such a way that Rin won't be available/able/willing to use a Command Spell, or remove that possibility from the equation.

[theforgot3n1]

Originally Posted by GDB

But things don't fall into place for him to do that in the Fate route. He needs to remove Saber's link from Shirou so that he doesn't just lolAvalon, and he either needs to do it in such a way that Rin won't be available/able/willing to use a Command Spell, or remove that possibility from the equation.

He didn't have Avalon until the very end, at the fight against Kirei, though, right?

I think you're right about the other post, that he just wanted reassurance about the ideal thing. He could've just let berserker slaughter them all in Fate.

[GDB]

He had Avalon the entire time. Were you not paying attention? That's how he survived being cleaved in half by Berserker, among other instances of fatal actions.

And letting Berserker kill everyone wouldn't accomplish anything. He didn't want "Shirou to die", he wanted "Shirou to die by Emiya's hand", thus creating a paradox and deleting himself, and likely the entirety of that reality, all in one go.

[mAc Chaos]

Avalon was also what kept him alive long enough in the beginning after getting Gae Bolg'd for Rin to save him.