2012-06-16, 21:52 | Link #2201 |
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The notion that people go to war and kill because they don't understand each other, which the Japanese always like to put in their shows, is a giant load of bs. We go to war because the other guy has something we want, land, natural resources, technology, etc.
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2012-06-16, 22:06 | Link #2202 | |
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2012-06-16, 22:07 | Link #2203 | |
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The famous quote (as seen in Gundam 00) from Ralph Waldo Emerson captures it quite well, "Peace cannot be achieved through violence, it can only be attained through understanding." And this usage of "understanding" implies "empathy", which means a ton more than just knowing what other guy wants.
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2012-06-16, 22:51 | Link #2205 | |
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2012-06-17, 01:41 | Link #2206 | |
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In the first two, they made a point that, while you may be at war with your enemies, they're also human beings who have their own families and loved ones and that they're also suffering because of the war. In the Stella-Shinn-Kira situation, lack of understanding plays a part in that whole tragedy, although it may not be the primary cause, from Stella and Kira only seeing each other as threats while Shinn only seeing Stella as a victim. But anyway, as I said before, neither SEED nor Destiny ends with understanding being achieved, as far as the big picture is concerned. In fact, so called "understanding" leads Rau to want to destroy the human race in SEED and Kira to actually say he was willing to kill someone, namely Durandal, in Destiny. Last edited by monster; 2012-06-17 at 02:42. |
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2012-06-17, 06:32 | Link #2207 |
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They never explicitly bring up "understanding". At least not in the way other Gundam shows bring them up.
Your examples (except Cagalli-Uzumi, which I fail to see where the understanding come from) do show cases of people interacting with enemies and either seeing their point of view or not, but the show doesn't really emphasize those concepts the way it emphasize others I mentioned.
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2012-06-17, 07:04 | Link #2208 | ||
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To tie it back to AGE, that's why I don't really care whether achieving some sort of understanding is how they end the show. It doesn't necessarily mean everything is resolved. |
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2012-06-17, 07:38 | Link #2209 | ||
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Just because a guy like Dearka switches sides because he sees the good guys' point of view that he's working for genocidal bad guys, and he likes a girl and wants to protect her, doesn't mean any form of understanding is reached. As for Shinn/Kira/Stella, same thing there. Shinn sees that Stella is being treated terribly by the bad guys, develops a brother complex and wants to protect her. Kira doesn't know who the heck she is and kills her. Stella's mental capacity isn't even enough to reach understanding with anyone either way.
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2012-06-17, 10:52 | Link #2210 | |
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*Looks at Gundam Wing* |
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2012-06-17, 15:14 | Link #2212 |
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Pacifism is the furthest from working in 00. Note that the problems that was solved in 00 came about as a result of the war that Celestial Being incited. Hell, the movie has Setsuna trying out the pacifist route with the ELS in the Qan[T], only for Graham to reprimand him on it by essentially telling him that he'll never get anywhere if he doesn't fight. Celestial Being is as far away from being pacifists as you can get in a Gundam - if they want something solved, they put their money where their mouths are and exterminate the problems through armed intervention.
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2012-06-17, 15:24 | Link #2213 | |
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As for the results though, I was thinking more of the ending to the movie where all of mankind's basically united under the Earth Federation and seemed to have a long period of peace with the ELS and everybody seems all happy and turning into Innovators and all about peace and understanding and stuff. But then I remember that we don't really know much about what happened between the time the giant flower first appeared and that 50 years later segment. Maybe it wasn't all colorful and fluffy as it appeared.
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2012-06-17, 15:28 | Link #2214 |
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It wasn't. We know for a fact that after the ELS incident, the Innovator War broke out between Innovators and people who didn't like the idea of Innovator and evolution being forced upon them. We also know that Setsuna also participated in that war using the 00 Qan[T].
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2012-06-17, 15:36 | Link #2215 | |
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2012-06-17, 15:43 | Link #2217 |
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From official subs/dub, 40%.
Also, not all Innovators became Innovators through "natural way". It's through ELS, which is one of the reason the Innovator Wars broke out, because some ignorant people thought that those infected by the ELS became aliens and were threatened by their existence. |
2012-06-17, 17:26 | Link #2218 | ||||
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Or imagine if Shinn would've been more understanding that Kira would have no way of knowing that Stella was a victim. He could've worked with him to safely apprehend Stella instead of just blaming Kira for not knowing. |
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