Ore no Imouto - Light Novel & Manga Discussion Thread

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Mentar

Also, what's the followup intention? "Get Kirino out of your system so that you can be with me?"

I figured it stemmed from her being an older sibling herself, and seeing the tension in their relationship. Since she's friends with Kirino, and loves Kyousuke, it only makes sense that she'd want them to have a good relationship like she has with her sisters.

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by GDB

I figured it stemmed from her being an older sibling herself, and seeing the tension in their relationship. Since she's friends with Kirino, and loves Kyousuke, it only makes sense that she'd want them to have a good relationship like she has with her sisters.

I think that's very different. She's actively _supporting_ the idea of Kyousuke having incestuous sex with Kirino. From this (in my point of view fairly extreme) position, how do you get to her being the romantic end match with Kyousuke? "For now, sleep with Kirino, and should you ever tire of her, I'll be waiting for you as her replacement"? (Please forgive the slightly provocative wording, I'm doing this to emphasize my point here)

True romantic love always has a bit of a possessive element. Kuroneko doesn't show this element in her heated exchange with Ayase. And while there are types of genuine love which might tolerate HIM having sex with someone else, I don't see them as romantic. So why should the story end with Kuroneko after all? I think there's a disconnect here. Ayase's love on the other end _is_ showing this (healthy) selfish element.

Maybe I'll have to wait for the full summaries to appreciate Kuroneko's position, but what I've heard so far from the spoilers feels a bit weird to me.

[Sumeragi]

You know, given the catfight between Ruri and Ayase, I don't get why people actually think Ruri is supporting incest sex.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

You know, given the catfight between Ruri and Ayase, I don't get why people actually think Ruri is supporting incest sex.

This. I figured she was just goading Ayase and poking at an obvious point of irritation.

[Syokool]

Raws available, yet I haven't posted that in JCafe, but I think someone else will do it

Now, I can spend my weekend happily.

[Sumeragi]

Originally Posted by GDB

This. I figured she was just goading Ayase and poking at an obvious point of irritation.

Actually, I think it's partly because people haven't read the surrounding circumstances and just focused on the "I don't care even if Kyousuke does *censored* with his blood-related sister!" part.

Consider what was actually said in the cat fight.

[virox]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

Actually, I think it's partly because people haven't read the surrounding circumstances and just focused on the "I don't care even if Kyousuke does *censored* with his blood-related sister!" part.

Consider what was actually said in the cat fight.

By the way, the folded part says something like "If Kirino wanted to pursure a relationship with Kyousuke, would you be okay with it?" and then Ayase goes "No way, that can't be" etc. This is when Kuroneko says that at that time, Ayase will become Kirino's enemy. She also says that she knows Kirino's wish the best.

So maybe she said it mainly to piss Ayase off, but reading between the lines, I'm sure she really means what she's saying.

[Maugomale]

Originally Posted by virox

So maybe she said it mainly to piss Ayase off, but reading between the lines, I'm sure she really means what she's saying.

When you consider everything she's done in favor of the siblings, it's hard to believe she doesn't mean it

Now that the raws are available, maybe someone can clear it up

[Sumeragi]

I'm more of the "Ruri is bluffing" stance. Ayase was thinking pretty highly of herself when it comes to Kirino, and most likely various issues irritated Ruri to the point she hit back using what Ayase hated the most (siscon hentai) and also implying she was closer to Kirino.

Of course, we would need to know Kirino's real feelings, which will most likely be explored.

[s0beit]

Originally Posted by Mentar

The main point that I'd like to be making is: By making the social pushback against incestual relationships an open issue in the story, the probability of getting a Kirino/Kyousuke "living happily ever after" ending has gone down significantly. In order for that to work, the issue would have had to be sidestepped completely, or at least be marginalized.

I have to disagree with this. It's a common theme in incest romance fiction from Japan. There's only a handful that do sidestep the issue (and usually they're comedies, drama writers want drama which leads me to..). It ends up building drama later down the road (it's already doing this now) and it's easy for writers to expand upon it and evoke emotions from the reader.

Sometimes it drives them apart, sometimes it doesn't but it's a common theme in literature.

Not saying it will be Kirino end but your point doesn't really stand when stacked against hundreds of stories where the issue is brought up. I'm not advocating Kirino end but I'm just saying that the issue being brought up means nothing one way or the other.

[Maugomale]

Summary of chapter one is up on CETranslation

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by s0beit

I have to disagree with this. It's a common theme in incest romance fiction from Japan. There's only a handful that do sidestep the issue (and usually they're comedies, drama writers want drama which leads me to..). It ends up building drama later down the road (it's already doing this now) and it's easy for writers to expand upon it and evoke emotions from the reader.

Sometimes it drives them apart, sometimes it doesn't but it's a common theme in literature.

Not saying it will be Kirino end but your point doesn't really stand when stacked against hundreds of stories where the issue is brought up. I'm not advocating Kirino end but I'm just saying that the issue being brought up means nothing one way or the other.

You're missing the point. Of course there are dozens of incest-related dramas in Japanese fiction, but we're talking about THIS story, with its well-known storytelling up to now. In order to create a Kirino/Kyousuke ending, you would have to have to do it

o against the explicit will of their parents
o against the knowledge of e.g. Ayase, who would not sit back quietly

Good luck creating such an ending which still matches the OreImo style. Give me a plausible scenario. I don't see it.

A) Kirino/Kyousuke succeed in convincing parents, Ayase and everyone else that Incest is hunky-dory. (Forget it)

B) Kirino/Kyousuke decide that they'll stay together against their parents' will, ignoring whatever Ayase might do. How's that supposed to work? Highschool kids running away? Lover's suicide? (Forget it - not OreImo style)

C) Kirino/Kyousuke decide to fool everyone and go the "incest undercover" route, pretending not to be lovers. (Does this sound like a good conclusion to the story to you?)

If you have D) or E), let me hear them. Nope: By showing clear massive opposition from parents and Ayase, the show has made clear that it will NOT go the easy cop-out which several incest-based romcoms used: By simply ignoring the backlash and pretending that everything is fine, as long as the persons involved are fine with it. They're obviously not.

[finalfury]

The father seems to be supportive of Kirino and Kyousuke's relationship, and he didnt react in a negative manner when he saw the picture of them together when they were in the couple's booth on their date after Kyousuke put it on the fridge, plus Saori, Kouhei, Sena, Mikagami, Kuroneko are/will support their relationship.
Saori: will probably not mind the relationship as long as they both still stay friends with her.
Mikagami without a doubt supports them, Kouhei is a siscon and thinks Kyousuke will eventually be with Kirino, Sena made a yaoi pic of Kyou x Kirino, which says something. Kuroneko is supportive of both of them as she wants both of them to be happy and even broke up with Kyousuke to coerce Kirino to tell what she thought about Kyou and Ruri's relationship.

[bakAnki]

> Kouhei then said that he's here to cheer Kyousuke up since he was being treated coldly by the girls, and what better way to do that then to talk about how cute Sena is
> Kouhei said that as a special service, he'll talk about Sena's breasts for today
> Kyousuke replied that to cheer Kouhei up in the future, he'll tell him about Kirino's ass for three hours
> Kouhei said he doesn't give a fuck about the ass of another person's sister, and Kyousuke said it applies for Sena as well

These two siscons are awesome, they're lucky the sisters didn't hear what they said XDD

[s0beit]

Originally Posted by Mentar

...words...

I'm not advocating anything and I'm not the writer of Oreimo. None of us are.

We'll see how it works out when it works out, I'm just pointing out the fact that conflict doesn't automatically mean anything. Conflict is the basis for good storytelling. I have no idea where the author is going with this and I'd rather not wish up imaginary scenarios and go back and forth about it (particularly when I don't care that much).

[larethian]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

You know, given the catfight between Ruri and Ayase, I don't get why people actually think Ruri is supporting incest sex.

Because people see what they want to see. Like those who try to find harems in every possible series, even in those that doesn't have any harem themes. There are just too many people who don't read between the lines, the context, and try to understand the intention of the author (sometimes hinted in afterwords) and the themes behind and general direction of the story.



Still, Based on what he said in his afterword, it seems like Fushimi is taking one step at a time, though I won't discount that he might already have an ending in mind. I think up till now, volumes 1, 3, 4, 5, 8 are my favorite volumes to date. While I haven't read in detail yet (just glanced through), there's too much Shuraba in this volume for my taste. I hope there's a good reason for that. I get the feeling that everything is just part of Kuroneko working to achieve her Arcadia.

More comments later, if I can find the time to finish it over the weekend (dammit, I need to clear some work and finalize my personal tax filing this weekend).


Btw, Fushimi didn't mention the incident in afterword. Oh, he mentioned receiving fan letters from China and Taiwan, so if you feel that your country is left out, you know what to do.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by larethian

Because people see what they want to see. Like those who try to find harems in every possible series, even in those that doesn't have any harem themes. There are just too many people who don't read between the lines, the context, and try to understand the intention of the author (sometimes hinted in afterwords) and the themes behind and general direction of the story.

This... in spades. And I'll give the author of OreImo a bag of cookies for leading these particular people around by the nose through series. They fall for every bait'n'switch, they fall for misdirection, they fall for false trails, they take pronouncements literally instead of catching clues that the protagonist is angry, manipulative, or doesn't have all the information.

And the author is having a great time pulling their chains from the title all the way through every volume.

[Flere821]

Chinese translations have almost finished Ch2... and it covered the Ruri VS Ayase bit too

Spoiler for details:

While Ruri did say she won't mind Kyousuke *beep* Kirino, when Kyou asked if Kirino really did want to do that Ruri blushed and said that's not it and she's just making a example. Kyou inwardly snarked Ruri have problems if she had to use him *beep* Kirino as a example.

Bottom line, what I'm getting from this is Ruri is just saying stuff to piss off Ayase. Should Kyousuke really be in a incestuous relationship with Kirino she might just blow up as much as any other girl >.>

[Yye1]

Hi I've not followed oreimo since volume 6 (damn u high school DxD) so from wat I've read on the thread, kyousuke went out with kuroneko and is having a weird affectionate relationship with kirino and ayase has a thing 4 him and he moved out... Why did he move out?

[sleepingleo]

^
He didn't move out. He was temporarily -kicked out- of his house by him mom no less, there is a difference in the concept.
Reason: Being too close to Kirino (and neighbors spreading rumors) and having University exams coming. I think.