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View Poll Results: Fate/Zero - Episode 19 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 55 | 43.65% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 39 | 30.95% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 22 | 17.46% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 7 | 5.56% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 1 | 0.79% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 1 | 0.79% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 1 | 0.79% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 126. You may not vote on this poll |
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2012-05-17, 13:39 | Link #202 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
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while being paralyzed? and again, giving a promise (safty) while he intends to break before making it means: bastard. Quote:
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2012-05-17, 13:48 | Link #204 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2008
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the idea is: bowing the plane in the air was the easiest option for Kiristugu. |
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2012-05-17, 13:49 | Link #205 | |
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
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Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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irrelevant. Kirei had no seals after forcing Assassin to fight Rider, yet he received a full set without Risei's implication. It is known part that Master are a threat, regardless if they no longer have servant and/or command spells.
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And nothing stops Kayneth using other "methods": however crippled he was, he still killed Risei, and nothing would stop him to plot with Sola (unlike him, she still has her magic circuit, and even without her right hand, could potentially be a huge problem). That's assuming Natalia would be able to land -properly- the airbus on the ground, which is unlikely: a cessna is absolutely nothing close to an Airbus. Also, you would need a full squad of the church/mage association to deal with that, which would require time to call forth (and both organization would kill Natalia either way: MA would because she would have critical intel about Bolsack, Church would suspect her to be infected).
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Last edited by Klashikari; 2012-05-17 at 14:02. |
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2012-05-17, 14:03 | Link #207 | |||
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Join Date: Aug 2008
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what we both see is that he is not hero and he does what he does because his dream to be a hero. so what was wrong in my statement again? my statement is: the heroism is sacrificing yourself, not deceiving the others while sacrificing them. for that (the deceiving) i think Kiristugu is a bastard. Quote:
airports can quarantine planes, and in this case all they need to is: leave the passengers door closed, easy. i repeat, the episode issue is: Kiristugue uses the easiest to solve matters. Quote:
in fact you must use a seal to forge a new contract, Kiri acquired a whole bunch of new seals from his father, watch the episode again |
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2012-05-17, 14:03 | Link #208 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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Logic would suggest the needs of the many (the people of New York City) outweigh the needs of the few (Natilie and Kerry). Thus the logical solution is the blow the plane up. One life for millions.
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2012-05-17, 14:11 | Link #209 | ||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
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Confronting Kiritsugu with "definition" of Heroism is what I consider wrong, since the character and circumstances do not play in there. So summarizing him due to the fact he goes against such definition is the odd part.
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The stark difference with a virus is the fact the dead are much more problematic than a simple virus as not only there is no cure, but any casualty will increase the number of the dead to deal with (along the fact they can move, cause damage and aim directly any living being within their range). Simply speaking: the very moment there is an opening in the plane, and your usual zombie horror show -will- happen. This goes with the huge problem we have at hand: there is absolutely -no- guarantee that Natalia can make a safe landing with an airbus. Should there is a single break in the aircraft plane, it is over. Quote:
So, any master can potentially receive seals out of nowhere, should the grail consider them worthy. Also, for your instance, no, command spells aren't absolutely needed for a contract: the CS are meant to be used as absolute authority on the Servant and can be used as miracles as well. The problem is that there is little chance for the Servant to obey a master if they no longer have any CS.
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2012-05-17, 14:16 | Link #210 | |||
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Join Date: Aug 2008
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are defending for the sake of defense? Quote:
you intend to make me laugh, right? Quote:
why unlikely? their reaction time was good in the island so what about a city? she moved without detection from them in the island so what prevents her from doing so in airport? |
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2012-05-17, 14:27 | Link #213 | |||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
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Regardless how crippled a master is, -if- they manage to gain the control of a servant, they can be a threat. That's actually what happened with Kirei, even though he is already a threat by himself. Quote:
Therefore, having the possibility to gain CS afterwards and another servant is completely legit, however unlikely you believe it is. Quote:
Also, you would need them to be there at the airport -before- Natalia lands the airbus, and that's while knowing problem has occured during the flight (so arguably less than the 10 hours of travel). Let's assume they manage to arrive before she does, it doesn't prevent the possibility to have a widespread outbreak, because of the bees. Should they manage to contain the plane, they would just destroy everything, Natalia included.
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2012-05-17, 14:33 | Link #214 | ||||
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Join Date: Aug 2008
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specify. anyway, his aim is to be hero, so it is necessary to judge him as such. Quote:
he regained the will to fight so his seals reappered. easy. while in other hand you dont acquire new seals because of the grail, you acquire them from a body, the unused seals of dead masters were stored in Kiri's father body. Quote:
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2012-05-17, 14:37 | Link #215 |
Crax
Author
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: MY
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The biggest thing that irked me (Other than your fucking - forgive the language - double triple posting) that your constant implication that Kiritsugu wasn't sacrificing himself.
I'd honestly be trapped in an endless cycle of death like the Heroic Spirit Emiya than live a life like Kiritsugu's. The difference of weight between the two kinds of self-sacrifice cannot even compare to each other. You're supposing that Natalie can pull a miracle and land the plane safely with everything intact, and totally belittling the risk of a zombie apocalypse upon the city. No sane man who truly understand the risks here - something comparable to a third world war or nuclear - would ever let that plane land from the skies and blow it as soon as possible, with or without living passengers on board. There's no need to pull a real life example, a game will suffice. So there's this protagonist who was plagued by all sorts of gun trouble, and he finds out in the end that the mastermind behind it all was a frail old man who couldn't lift a finger but was so ridiculously rich that he can hire an army to shoot our hero. The contract they've made prevented direct contact but - as Maiya had showed - doesn't stop a third party from interfering. The last thing Kiritsugu needs is a troop of magicians hounding his back when things are hard enough already. You also seem to neglect the existence of Lancer for some reason. 'Their reaction timing was good in the island' Oh, you mean that one time the Church fucking slaughtered the entire island of people regardless they're infected or not? You call that GOOD reaction timing? It can't even be called a GOOD reaction - oh, I must stop. I'll blow my stomach laughing if I take this seriously any longer. Back to Max Payne 3. EDIT: And oh yes, the Grail does give new seals. When Assassin was murdered by Rider Kirei lost his Command Seals and they went back to the Grail, but the Grail once again bestowed them upon him because he was 'interesting'. The Grail doesn't give more than 7 seals, but the seals can be granted to ANYONE who's seeking the Grail.
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2012-05-17, 14:38 | Link #216 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
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it had been years since i used this forum, is it against the rules to make a reply for each reply?
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and lets not forget what guardian says about his sefl: bastard who must die. for the rest of post: you deal as: Natai will crash the plane, Natalli will crash the plane without blowing the plane, the bees will survive the crash, a whole lot of assumption with no Indication from Natali that she cant safely land the plane. the easier option is thinking that there are no other options, it is defense mechanism Last edited by brandon279; 2012-05-17 at 15:14. Reason: correcting spelling |
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2012-05-17, 14:42 | Link #217 | ||||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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Also, it isn't his aim. He wanted to be one, but basically acted on a different path. That's exactly what he implied with his discussion with Iri. He perfectly knows that being a hero won't allow him to fulfill his objective (hence why he loathes hero), hence why he plays the role of an assassin, and do not believe in heroism, but rather pragmatism, to the point he would embrace all evil, if he can stop everything. So he is willingly going against the path of a true hero, so no it is NOT his aim. Quote:
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The proof of that: Sola was supplying Lancer with her own prana, despite she didn't make any contract with him at all. She even did that before receiving Kayneth's CS, and Kayneth was still under contract with Lancer after Sola took his CS. So, contract is not necessary between a magus and a servant for the prana supply, and that Command Spells aren't the sole factor of the contract.
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Last edited by Klashikari; 2012-05-17 at 17:25. |
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2012-05-17, 15:06 | Link #218 | ||
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Join Date: Aug 2008
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to stay in the world you must have a master in order to give you a link to the world or you would disappear no matter how much mana you suck /reserve a contract must be made. master-less servant will disappear without contract. contract needs a seal, Karyth lacked seals, lacked servant, lacked circuits, lacked heath, lacked will to fight if you consider him a danger then babies are danger in your thinking, why ? because they MAY grow and acquire seals, circuits, weapons, will to fight..... really the is huge line between what is dangerous and what is not, specially for Emya i see that my words fall on deaf ears, so..... bye. |
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2012-05-17, 15:14 | Link #219 | |||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
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Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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In both Zero and Stay Night, it was always mentioned that the best course of action is to kill the master. Not only because they are source of the servant prana, but also because they can always have other contract afterwards, regardless of their CS. And before you go again with this other point: Even Natalia herself hoped the Airbus would be as easy as a cessna, which is ridiculous from the get go. So as several people already mentioned: chances for her to land the aircraft properly are low. So instead of claiming you are talking to deaf ears, fix your facts, because it is extremely tiring.
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2012-05-17, 16:01 | Link #220 |
18782+18782=37564
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: InterWebs
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Well, I kind of get where brandon comes from though. Simply put: no matter how necessary or "right" Kiritsugu's actions are, that still can't stop him from being a douchebag (think House). It is actually normal to feel repulsed by Kiritsugu's actions because of the seeming lack of human emotions in them.
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