Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 12 Discussion / Poll

[SuperKnuckles]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I'd like to have the bit about the UN trade restrictions explained.

Was that a rationing to protect the dwindling reserves? Wouldn't that have made the oil all the more valuable?

It seemed obvious that it was to divert fuel usage and resort to the newer energy solution. Not in our world situation with the way we restrict oil to control pricing.

Also, what would turning oil more valuable/pricey do? It'd create less demand and probably propel a new energy alternative in the process.



As for the episode itself, it seems this intervention angle will result in Setsuna becoming something like Quatre in Gundam Wing... with the personality of Heero. I can totally see him become something of a savior in the Gundam 00 world whether he wants to be or not. Though it seems more apparent that he's starting to embrace the possible role of a savior.

And I wonder when all the side-characters will start influencing the main story. Saji's daily butler-like adventures reminds me of Hayate no Gotoku and the journalist part reminds me of Hataraki Man. It all has to come together somehow.

As for the aesthetic of the show, Ismail Marina is more and more reminding me of Relena not just because of her policies, but with her sexy hair bangs. And that middle eastern vest looks very Quatre on Setsuna. Pretty nifty. heh

[Ascaloth]

Watched the Conclave-Mendoi subs of Episode 12.

A very nice episode, actually. Very nice battle scenes, Ptolemaios looked unusually good this episode, and a beginning to what looks like a fairly intriguing arc. Even the Saji-Mama segment, while as pointless as ever, was actually funny this time round. No points for Marina emo-ing, but at least her situation is understandable, so I'll cut her some slack.

A certain pattern I've noticed here is that they've been taking the story in two-episode arcs so far; each and every time, a very good starting episode with a lame ending episode. I hope they take it further this time, and not give this arc a lame ending next episode.

A 9/10.

[SuperKnuckles]

Originally Posted by Ascaloth

A certain pattern I've noticed here is that they've been taking the story in two-episode arcs so far; each and every time, a very good starting episode with a lame ending episode. I hope they take it further this time, and not give this arc a lame ending next episode.

A 9/10.

To me, I equate it with each and every CB intervention. It's usually been two or three episodes that way. And I wouldn't say the finale episodes of them were bad. Just inconclusive and leaving people wanting more with the indecisive outcomes so far. Even this episode, as great as it was, left a few potential big fights to the imagination. Ali just running around not fighting directly, Graham ending it in mid-fight, etc.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

It seemed obvious that it was to divert fuel usage and resort to the newer energy solution. Not in our world situation with the way we restrict oil to control pricing.

Also, what would turning oil more valuable/pricey do? It'd create less demand and probably propel a new energy alternative in the process.

That's daft. You don't need an embargo to make people use a new form of energy when the old one is becoming progressively more expensive. Or was that bit about the world running out of oil a lie? Did they still have loads of it and decide to forcefully switch to solar energy? How does that make sense?

Besides, it's not like energy production is the only thing we use oil for.

[SuperKnuckles]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

That's daft. You don't need an embargo to make people use a new form of energy when the old one is becoming progressively more expensive. Or was that bit about the world running out of oil a lie? Did they still have loads of it and decide to forcefully switch to solar energy? How does that make sense?

Besides, it's not like energy production is the only thing we use oil for.

Does it even have to do with the utmost truth of the matter, though? If there is a much more efficient and reliable energy resource to control rather than the fluctuating and volatile oil markets that come from hostile land-grabs, the UN would have the political will and ability to shift the market forcefully. I doubt they'd sit around and let the Middle East and the rest of the contested oil nations push the UN around and risk a World War when they have the power to nick it off from the bud. It really won't matter if the oil has 'dried off' or not when it is such an inferior and contested energy resource.

Though on the record, I do believe the idea of a drying out oil resource makes sense 300 years from now.

I think beyond the energy uses, the solar power just makes sense in terms of stabilization, which seems to be the UN objective in the 00 world.

As for the embargo, I think that is precisely the reason why they'd allow alternative uses for oil in that sense. It's just that it won't control the world as they have.

[Anh_Minh]

If solar energy is a better alternative, people will use that without an embargo. If there's a better alternative, the Middle East won't have the power to push anybody around.

So, again, what is the rationale behind the trade restrictions?

[SuperKnuckles]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

If solar energy is a better alternative, people will use that without an embargo. If there's a better alternative, the Middle East won't have the power to push anybody around.

So, again, what is the rationale behind the trade restrictions?

They probably did it to speed up the world to the technology instead of letting it be bogged down for decades when they already have the technology and infrastructure down pat. Also, considering that the solar energy system is a multi-national, UN funded effort (apparently, since UN seems to be in firm control of who has access to it) , I would think that they would force the issue rather than things happen gradually.

Again, this is really not equatable to how we do things in real life, nor how UN in real life would probably let open economics handle it like you say.

If you're asking the 'why' question, I wouldn't know entirely. Then again, why is Veda and UN so secretively connected? I don't know. But there has to be multiple agendas for it. And none of them entirely transparent to the outside world.

[Anh_Minh]

Ah, yes, because an energy penury is just the thing you need when you want to completely change your industry's infrastructure.

Also, the UN doesn't have control of the energy, the three blocks do. All the UN did was fund the installation of an energy receptor - kinda like an electrician connecting your house to the power grid and setting up a few outlets. It's not the same as owning the powerplant.

[MooMooFarm]

Originally Posted by SonicX_Zero

I still think it could happen (I can dream right? ) doesn't have to be a full out battle just needs have a better choreographed fight with smooth animation, besides I dont give a rats ass about the main characters atm. Although I can't imagine the two of them fighting as crazy as Kira vs. Athrun back at Seed but it'll be a sight to behold.

Kira vs Athrun was not amazing. It was only cool due to the build up and well, it's either nostalgia or whatever. Go watch it again if you don't believe me. There are a lot of scenes where they used the old "soundtrack keeps going but pictures are still" technique that older animes like Berserk used because they were lazy. That to me ruined the fight. A genuine A+ fight must be completely choreographed with fluid animation, and no shortcuts can be taken.

An example would be Naruto's Rock Lee vs Gaara. Halfway in the fight, the scene turned into something that pretty much made the series as popular as it is now. There isn't a single person who likes Naruto who doesn't know about that fight. It's got to be something of that caliber.

Perhaps memory is failing, but Char's Counter Attack did a decent amount of it, though none of it was epic enough to be considered A+. However, it was consistent enough to make it a benchmark that it is today.

What if Ali was part of PMC Trust the whole time, and deliberately got the kids years ago into war for the sole purpose of making that war to make money? Then that leads into the Kurdish Republic being destroyed?

That could explain possibly the shock and twist of Ali being in the PMC.

This is pretty much what everyone is thinking. It's generally a cliche' formula that they give out a hint of why that X person is the villain, then once confronted and about to be slaughtered perhaps show a small sign of why they went on the path they are on now.

Regardless, the character is how it's portrayed is what matters. Not what character formula they use. Originality rarely exists nowadays with pretty much EVERYTHING being taken already and used. It's easier to become a billionaire then to come up with something truly original in fiction now. Look at harry potter =)

Yeah, I never thought I'd actually be one day looking back at Relena and remembering her fondly. o_O I never liked her or her ideals much, but at least she had a spine. Marina just sits around and whines all day long. She is unfit to be a leader of anything. I suppose maybe that's the point, still doesn't make her any less annoying. Hope her idiocy doesn't end up rubbing off on Setsuna.

While I agree with how Marina is terribad, I have to disagree on the reasons. For one, Marina is terribad because of the VA and how she basically is so weak, she looks out of place not only in the story, but also the show. Perhaps the VA is TOO good, one could make a case. But it's the same as a VA who is so good at sounding like someone you'd wanna punch in the face or bitchslap. Depending on how you build her, you can turn her into a very realistic character at this point. Just needs a breaking point scene or two.

Relena does have more logic. Yeah she had a spine. She had stupid ideals though, yet she had a spine. Problem is, this made her look STUPID. One with true ideals and a spine must also have realism, or must at least have some tact to appeal. Treiz had some of that, and to add he even had flare, though his ideals were a bit more warped and less goody goody. Relena was pretty much someone that came straight out of walt disney.

I cacn see Marina becoming a strong leader once she gets over what's going on and sets her mind on what exactly she wants for Azadistan. It definately looks as though Setsuna and Marina are going to be big influences on each other. Hopefully for the better.

Why must every chick remotely hot become either A) cannon fodder B) someone important and more useful then say, some ugly girl that's just a plain citizen? Seed gives proof to this to the max. It'd be hella more realistic (in a damn time frame that pretty much says 9/11 realism) if they at least gave her the possibility of just pulling out, regardless of what happens to her nation because face it, she's just one girl. =X if you do it right, it could even be one of those D= scenes like the ending of CCA.

As for the aesthetic of the show, Ismail Marina is more and more reminding me of Relena not just because of her policies, but with her sexy hair bangs. And that middle eastern vest looks very Quatre on Setsuna. Pretty nifty. heh

It's just me, but with Yagami Light's VA and Marina being as....weak willed VA plus the whole middle eastern background, it really makes it hard to like the characters =(

For one, to go from Yagami Light and his incredibly awesome character to some loner QQ boy like Setsuna....yeah..........anyone else feel pain whenever they watch? It's like...yeah I know you want to expand your repetoire, but this just doesn't seem to fit a MAIN CHARACTER. The only silent character that I've liked otherwise with the kinda voice/relative attitude during their brooding period is Akagi from...well Akagi. And that was because that guy was a TRUE GENIUS. Oh and guess what? They used the SAME DAMN NARRATOR T_T that NERD does such a GOOD JOB of setting ominous settings like 00, why can't you let the Mah Jong king be the VA? And.....let him go pro it up!

=( I'm sorry I'll stop ranting. <3 this series. Merry X-mas =D

[Terra]

Marina choose to be in the position she's in now. I don't see her abandoning what she set out to do despite the state she was in at the end of the ep. She wasn't born in the position, she choose it when she was offered it. She just doesn't strike me as the type to walk away from her responsibilities, especially when she choose it herself.

[Demongod86]

Originally Posted by MooMooFarm

Why must every chick remotely hot become either A) cannon fodder B) someone important and more useful then say, some ugly girl that's just a plain citizen? Seed gives proof to this to the max. It'd be hella more realistic (in a damn time frame that pretty much says 9/11 realism) if they at least gave her the possibility of just pulling out, regardless of what happens to her nation because face it, she's just one girl.

Because it's anime and they don't make them appealing just for shits and giggles. If they're hot, that's an indicator that they have to serve a purpose, whether it is to become ownage like Cagalli, or to a much greater extent Lacus, or to be cannon fodder--which I'm hoping Marina will become -_-...

[SonicX_Zero]

Originally Posted by MooMooFarm

Kira vs Athrun was not amazing. It was only cool due to the build up and well, it's either nostalgia or whatever. Go watch it again if you don't believe me. There are a lot of scenes where they used the old "soundtrack keeps going but pictures are still" technique that older animes like Berserk used because they were lazy. That to me ruined the fight. A genuine A+ fight must be completely choreographed with fluid animation, and no shortcuts can be taken.

Its not that I dont agree with you when it comes to how bad that fight was in terms of animation because there wasn't much to it other than still frames, but I guess as you mentioned it was the build up that made it interesting where both pilots were fighting desperately only to end up having both MS explode. I guess I find having smooth animation more of an added bonus as long as the build up is there.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

That's daft. You don't need an embargo to make people use a new form of energy when the old one is becoming progressively more expensive. Or was that bit about the world running out of oil a lie? Did they still have loads of it and decide to forcefully switch to solar energy? How does that make sense?

Besides, it's not like energy production is the only thing we use oil for.

Well we know for sure that the reason they switched to solar energy was because fossil fuels were running out. When it did all of their economies collapsed or went into recession according to the Union president as he stated thanks to solar energy they just recently recovered.

I'm wondering if it was done to gear the remaining fuel sources to the construction of the solar towers. Therefore limiting the amount the middle east is allowed to export but at a cheaper cost for the importers and thus, ruining their economies. That's just my guess. I too would like a better explanation here.

[Anh_Minh]

The construction of the space elevators must, at first, have cost a lot of oil. If the Middle East was forced to provide it cheaply, it's not an embargo, it's theft. (Though that would at least make sense. It's not like the three blocks would be incapable of it, especially pushed into a corner as they were. The only problem is that it doesn't stick with the narration.)

[Aquifina]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

The construction of the space elevators must, at first, have cost a lot of oil. If the Middle East was forced to provide it cheaply, it's not an embargo, it's theft. (Though that would at least make sense. It's not like the three blocks would be incapable of it, especially pushed into a corner as they were. The only problem is that it doesn't stick with the narration.)

Hmmm... is it really necessary to explain rationally the politics in the show? The only other eps of a Gundam franchise I've see is that SEED series, and as far as I can tell, Gundam 00 is much better, if still flagrantly preposterous. The whole idea of giant humanoid robots fighting with edged weapons already requires suspension of doubt; do the geopolitics really need to square?

This is not to say that I don't prefer plausible politics within the somewhat absurd premises of the series; Gundam 00 seems to have that, e.g.:

1. The composition of the blocks seems plausible: US and Japan/a successor to the EU/China-India-rest of Asia

2. The use of PMC as the name of that merc. corporation seems to show some knowledge of contemporary military issues; PMC is indeed the usual acronym for firms such as Blackwater, which for better or for worse have become increasingly part of the intl. scene.

3. In the spirit of power politics, it's nice to see none of the factions having "pure" motives--that includes Celestial Being, which still seems vaguely suspicious.

Why the ME is under oil embargo also strikes me as odd, but does it really matter all that much? A bigger problem IMO is the unbalanced character of many of the Gundam Meisters--unbalanced to the point of hindering their combat efficiency. But hey, how else are we going to get drama, within the context of the series?

[SuperKnuckles]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Ah, yes, because an energy penury is just the thing you need when you want to completely change your industry's infrastructure.

Like I said, I think it's more the urgency to change the energy distribution problem than anything. If we're having so much trouble with oil today and even decades ago in the 70's, I'm sure they'd be pretty fed up about the system no less than 100 years from now.

It seems unlikely they are changing the technology on some sort of whim. Political urgency and practical matters that supplement it sounds most reasonable to me.

Also, the UN doesn't have control of the energy, the three blocks do. All the UN did was fund the installation of an energy receptor - kinda like an electrician connecting your house to the power grid and setting up a few outlets. It's not the same as owning the powerplant.

We'll see how much of that is true, though I think you're right to a point. We never really saw how much the UN was involved in the planning of the three major plants or whether they serve as a proxy to the three nations or not. I think it could be either way.

Originally Posted by MooMooFarm

Kira vs Athrun was not amazing. It was only cool due to the build up and well, it's either nostalgia or whatever. Go watch it again if you don't believe me. There are a lot of scenes where they used the old "soundtrack keeps going but pictures are still" technique that older animes like Berserk used because they were lazy. That to me ruined the fight. A genuine A+ fight must be completely choreographed with fluid animation, and no shortcuts can be taken.

I had no problem with that fight and the sentimental aspects basically made that fight. The Seed shows could've been way more thorough with the battles, so criticizing it is almost redundant to me.

Perhaps memory is failing, but Char's Counter Attack did a decent amount of it, though none of it was epic enough to be considered A+. However, it was consistent enough to make it a benchmark that it is today.

I never thought much about the actual battles other than the fact that it was the final ending to the UC story. That was basically the hoopla over that.

Regardless, the character is how it's portrayed is what matters. Not what character formula they use. Originality rarely exists nowadays with pretty much EVERYTHING being taken already and used. It's easier to become a billionaire then to come up with something truly original in fiction now. Look at harry potter =)

That is why I hate talking about 'originality'. It's all in the execution and not how it is totally inventive. Even Gundam 0079 wasn't exactly innovative by itself, but how it combined the military anime conventions with the robots.

Relena does have more logic. Yeah she had a spine. She had stupid ideals though, yet she had a spine. Problem is, this made her look STUPID. One with true ideals and a spine must also have realism, or must at least have some tact to appeal. Treiz had some of that, and to add he even had flare, though his ideals were a bit more warped and less goody goody. Relena was pretty much someone that came straight out of walt disney.

It's called plot device. If you have every character acting manly and in charge all the time with no sense of regret, then that really can't go anywhere. And what's wrong with Relena? In the end, it was HER victory.

Why must every chick remotely hot become either A) cannon fodder B) someone important and more useful then say, some ugly girl that's just a plain citizen? Seed gives proof to this to the max. It'd be hella more realistic (in a damn time frame that pretty much says 9/11 realism) if they at least gave her the possibility of just pulling out, regardless of what happens to her nation because face it, she's just one girl. =X if you do it right, it could even be one of those D= scenes like the ending of CCA.

What are you talking about? CCA was filled to the BRIM with cannon fodder. Also, Seed is NOT a good example of your argument. Remember Flay? What was she beyond a lost/dazed/crazed civilian? And yet she singlehandedly influenced the ENTIRE war. Not a good example at all IMO.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

The construction of the space elevators must, at first, have cost a lot of oil. If the Middle East was forced to provide it cheaply, it's not an embargo, it's theft. (Though that would at least make sense. It's not like the three blocks would be incapable of it, especially pushed into a corner as they were. The only problem is that it doesn't stick with the narration.)

I find it highly unlikely the UN did it to bully the middle eastern nations to begin with. It could have stemmed from the lack of oil. I agree that the embargo doesn't make perfect, apparent sense, but it's not totally illogical as to why. And I can't see the oil producing nations as a one sided victim in all this, especially considering how much of their decisions shape our lives today and even nearly 100 years ago with a lot of conflicts arising from oil territories.

Considering that the theme of 00 is peace and how the three blocs are there to counteract eachother without threatening an all out war over something like oil, I would think that they found the 'perfect' energy solution in Solar energy with certain obvious repercussions to nations that used to rely too entirely on oil.


Also, you say they 'must' have used a lot of oil to create the solar arrays, but I disagree. If they found a way to enhance hydrogen energy outputs and able to harvest solar energy to much greater efficiency (compared to today's extremely inefficient solar power output), they probably had other means to do it too. The idea that oil supports everything is today's idea that is already starting to change. Also, if they bother to even build such a solar array, you would assume that they had the way to support solar-energy powered infrastructure. Not the other way around.

[edf91]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

If solar energy is a better alternative, people will use that without an embargo. If there's a better alternative, the Middle East won't have the power to push anybody around.

So, again, what is the rationale behind the trade restrictions?

Well, if we look at the current world situation, UN or US or whoever put an embargo on Iraq to make sure they didn't make money from the oil for other purposes (not that it did its job, but that was the point), and it is the same concept here. If they didn't put an embargo on oil export, how much are you willing to bet the solar energy will be under attack every single moment? You have to realize those oil producing countries have a stranglehold on using oil as the main source of energy for so long they basically dictate how countries are run, so it make sense that in order for UN to make sure solar energy takes off, they have to stop the oil producing countries from interfering. Yes, those countries suffer now in the Gundam 00 world, but if you look back, they certainly have been profiting from others for a LONG time.

Yes, in the perfect world, as long as solar energy is better, people will choose that, but who said everyone will play by rules to let that happen?

The interesting thing for the next episode would be who will be the saint? Will it be Setsuna/Gundam, or the leader who were captured? From the looks of it, it looks to be Setsuna/Gundam, since it will certainly mimic the first meeting of Setsuna and Gundam.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles

Like I said, I think it's more the urgency to change the energy distribution problem than anything. If we're having so much trouble with oil today and even decades ago in the 70's, I'm sure they'd be pretty fed up about the system no less than 100 years from now.

And like I said, an oil embargo for that reason still doesn't make sense. It's like saying "I want to learn karate", going into a bar, and starting a fight. Sure, it gives you some more incentive, but it doesn't actually help you learn karate, and gets you beaten up a lot.

It seems unlikely they are changing the technology on some sort of whim. Political urgency and practical matters that supplement it sounds most reasonable to me.

They're changing it because oil is running out. How does an embargo factor into that?

I find it highly unlikely the UN did it to bully the middle eastern nations to begin with. It could have stemmed from the lack of oil. I agree that the embargo doesn't make perfect, apparent sense, but it's not totally illogical as to why. And I can't see the oil producing nations as a one sided victim in all this, especially considering how much of their decisions shape our lives today and even nearly 100 years ago with a lot of conflicts arising from oil territories.

And an embargo helps matters, how? In fact, it just caused more wars. Well done, the UN.

[qupte]
Also, you say they 'must' have used a lot of oil to create the solar arrays, but I disagree. If they found a way to enhance hydrogen energy outputs and able to harvest solar energy to much greater efficiency (compared to today's extremely inefficient solar power output), they probably had other means to do it too. The idea that oil supports everything is today's idea that is already starting to change. Also, if they bother to even build such a solar array, you would assume that they had the way to support solar-energy powered infrastructure. Not the other way around.[/QUOTE]
If they had a good, land-based way of producing enough energy to build the space elevators (you know, all that mass to send into space...), they wouldn't have needed them in the first place. At least, not as urgently, and not for energy production.

Originally Posted by edf91

Well, if we look at the current world situation, UN or US or whoever put an embargo on Iraq to make sure they didn't make money from the oil for other purposes (not that it did its job, but that was the point), and it is the same concept here. If they didn't put an embargo on oil export, how much are you willing to bet the solar energy will be under attack every single moment? You have to realize those oil producing countries have a stranglehold on using oil as the main source of energy for so long they basically dictate how countries are run, so it make sense that in order for UN to make sure solar energy takes off, they have to stop the oil producing countries from interfering. Yes, those countries suffer now in the Gundam 00 world, but if you look back, they certainly have been profiting from others for a LONG time.

That, at least, is a reason for an embargo.

[Terra]

We'll see how much of that is true, though I think you're right to a point. We never really saw how much the UN was involved in the planning of the three major plants or whether they serve as a proxy to the three nations or not. I think it could be either way.

Well the solar array is one gigantic ring with each of the 3 powers having an elevator that connects to it. That requires a lot of joint planning from all 3 powers. The UN would be a perfect middle man in organizing it since it isn't part of any of the 3 powers.

[LightningZERO]

Gundam 00 ep 12 ratings

Video Research Ltd. has Gundam 00 at #9 with a 5.7%, the highest ratings the show has received so far.

From gunota

Oh yeah!