AnimeSuki Forums

aohige · 2012-10-29, 23:46

Well you see, the problem is
And don't throw rocks at me for saying this, it's biased as hell, just my personal opinion.

Asia-based developed MMORPGs tends to suck.
Japanese, Korean, Taiwanese, Chinese... they just suck. Bad.
The concept of "fun" is thrown out the window in favor of money-sucking grindfest.
And yes, I've played quite a few, and spent a few years in RO as well.

Unfortunately a holy merger of cute-cuddly designs and quality fun MMORPG simply hasn't happened.

Vexx · 2012-10-29, 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by aohige

Well you see, the problem is
And don't throw rocks at me for saying this, it's biased as hell, just my personal opinion.

Asia-based developed MMOs suck.
Japanese, Korean, Taiwanese, Chinese... they just suck. Bad.
The concept of "fun" is thrown out the window in favor of money-sucking grindfest.
And yes, I've played quite a few, and spent a few years in RO as well.

Unfortunately a holy merger of cute-cuddly designs and quality fun MMO simply hasn't happened.

No, I won't throw rocks ... what I like about them is the atmosphere, motifs, etc. Story content is a disaster.

Syn's list of what she'd buy is 1:1 what would get me hooked in an MMO. Much as I hate to say it, WoW was the last time we saw an MMO release that combined all the 'best practices' of the time. Unfortunately, they've thrashed around since then.

These days I'm looking for community, roleplay, and the tools to do it -- no one seems to be stepping up for that. I may end up back at EQ2 and its antiquated graphics at this rate

NinjaRealist · 2012-10-30, 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by aohige

Well you see, the problem is
And don't throw rocks at me for saying this, it's biased as hell, just my personal opinion.

Asia-based developed MMORPGs tends to suck.
Japanese, Korean, Taiwanese, Chinese... they just suck. Bad.
The concept of "fun" is thrown out the window in favor of money-sucking grindfest.
And yes, I've played quite a few, and spent a few years in RO as well.

Unfortunately a holy merger of cute-cuddly designs and quality fun MMORPG simply hasn't happened.

Not throwing rocks, basically agree with exactly what you've said, though I'm the type that things most MMORPGs are too grindy.

bhl88 · 2012-10-30, 02:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by aohige

Well you see, the problem is
And don't throw rocks at me for saying this, it's biased as hell, just my personal opinion.

Asia-based developed MMORPGs tends to suck.
Japanese, Korean, Taiwanese, Chinese... they just suck. Bad.
The concept of "fun" is thrown out the window in favor of money-sucking grindfest.
And yes, I've played quite a few, and spent a few years in RO as well.

Unfortunately a holy merger of cute-cuddly designs and quality fun MMORPG simply hasn't happened.

I played RO and only the pure builds aka winning builds (INT-DEX-VIT or STR VIT DEX or STR AGI DEX)

Anyway is Mahou Shoujo in Japan purely girl (used to be)?

Jan-Poo · 2012-10-30, 03:02

The majokko genre was born in the contest of shoujo manga and anime aimed at girls.
Originally it didn't feature any form of combat at all, which is why it never attracted a male audience on top of featuring all the common characteristic of shoujo manga.

The first who changed it all was Sailor Moon which featured a group of magical girls (as opposed to a single one) who must "fight" together against a common foe, using a format very similar to anime like Saint Seiya or Samurai Troopers.

Until then even in Japan it was considered unusual for a boy to like mahou shoujo anime and manga. I remember an interview with Naoko Takeuchi where she stated she was very surprised when she noticed that there were boys among her fans.

After that it became somewhat less uncommon for that to happen and producers of magical girls show started to try and appeal female and male audience alike.

But to be completely honest the idea that you can have "girly" anime and manga aimed at a male audience is fairly recent even in Japan.

If you could travel back in time 20 years ago I doubt you'd find anyone that would consider K-on a seinen manga.
Not surprisingly, this conception is still absolutely alien to the western world.

bhl88 · 2012-10-30, 03:17

But K-ON! is not even seinen...

Hiroi Sekai · 2012-10-30, 03:20

No such thing as a "girl's show", just series that are aimed at females in general. Is Shugo Chara a girl's show? Is iDOLM@STER a girl's show? Is K-ON a girl's show? Under that logic, probably. But hey, I watched all of those with great satisfaction; you never know if you'll like it until you try.

Stuff like Chihayafuru and Usagi Drop are aimed at the Josei demographic, and yet those are some of the best series I've seen. Each series has a different way it hits people, so you really do find some of the best gems by digging into everything. Well, ALMOST everything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhl88

But K-ON! is not even seinen...

I would successfully list K-ON as seinen. Think about it, what is the major demographic who watches this series? Men. Who knows why, but we do love this cutesy stuff (some for other reasons, but y'know). It sure as hell ain't shojo; there's no males in it at all and romantics aren't even a thing, but just an inside joke at best.

Vexx · 2012-10-30, 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhl88

But K-ON! is not even seinen...

Um.... wrong?

(from wiki - Houbunsha, Manga Time Kirara, seinen)
Written by Kakifly Published by Houbunsha English publisher NA
Yen Press

Demographic Seinen Magazine Manga Time Kirara
Manga Time Kirara Carat English magazine US
Yen Plus

Original run May 2007 – August 2012 Volumes 6

Jan-Poo · 2012-10-30, 04:05

I'd like to point out that the prevalence of a certain gender in a show has absolutely no relation to the demographic it is aimed to.
What matters is how the characters are represented.

I could tell which is a male character meant to appeal girls and which is a male character meant to be liked by boy with a single glance. That's because there's (sadly) an enormous discrepancy between what a girl wants her ideal man to be and what a boy can feel admiration for. Of course the reverse is also true.

So you know when a manga or an anime is aimed to girls when the boys are clearly meant to appeal them as ideal partners and where girls are meant to be ideal models or girls they can indetify themselves with.

Likewise when the women are clearly sexualized and you see panty shots every two seconds you KNOW it's really meant for boys.

Now K-on and Madoka might cause a bit of confusion, because you can only understand that the characters portraited are meant to appeal (not necessarily sexually, but often so) a male demographic, if you are familiar with the niche subset of people that have a fascination for moe, cute and pure girls, as opposed to the busty, tall and sexy model.

darkchibi07 · 2012-10-30, 08:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Not surprisingly, this conception is still absolutely alien to the western world.

So what will it take to change that? Do we need hardcore anime fans to get into mainstream entertainment industry?

ACTL_33 · 2012-10-30, 13:42

Bleh. Their loss. Nothing wrong with male audience watching anime with girls as the lead stars. Not only that, but the OPs and EDs (especially the EDs) always have a special place in my heart. The ones done for the Pretty Cure seasons are a prime example of that.

KholdStare · 2012-10-30, 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Now K-on and Madoka might cause a bit of confusion, because you can only understand that the characters portraited are meant to appeal (not necessarily sexually, but often so) a male demographic, if you are familiar with the niche subset of people that have a fascination for moe, cute and pure girls, as opposed to the busty, tall and sexy model.

That's what I was discussing with someone before. I can definitely "feel" that K-on! is aimed towards males, but I can't point out the specifics as to why. There's definitely no pantsu shots nor extensive revealing fanservice. Yes it's all girls, but unlike other anime for males, it's not all girls surrounding a guy. It's just girls doing their normal things, going along with their daily lives, something a boy shouldn't be interested in...right?

Ithekro · 2012-10-30, 14:08

K-On seems to be the one that was made for one grouping, but when animated, was directed to make it appeal to the other grouping as well. Thus "gold was struck".

bhl88 · 2012-10-30, 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by KholdStare

That's what I was discussing with someone before. I can definitely "feel" that K-on! is aimed towards males, but I can't point out the specifics as to why. There's definitely no pantsu shots nor extensive revealing fanservice. Yes it's all girls, but unlike other anime for males, it's not all girls surrounding a guy. It's just girls doing their normal things, going along with their daily lives, something a boy shouldn't be interested in...right?

I feel that:
If a lead of girls = boy's show
If a lead of boys = girl's show

But somehow, K-ON is now popular amongst girls....

Ithekro · 2012-10-30, 14:56

Having a female director who might remember what school was like might have helped with that. Slightly less moe and more relationships, especially in the second season is probably was got them on Disney Channal Japan.

That and probably Yui being Yui.

bhl88 · 2012-10-30, 14:59

Yui's the king queen of learning.

totoum · 2012-11-01, 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhl88

I feel that:
If a lead of girls = boy's show
If a lead of boys = girl's show

That doesn't always work,see something like daily lives of high school boys

SeijiSensei · 2012-11-01, 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by totoum

That doesn't always work,see something like daily lives of high school boys

Also, Nanami of the shoujo Kami-sama Hajimemashita would like to register a strong objection.

Unless you think Tomoe is the star of that show.

bhl88 · 2012-11-01, 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by totoum

That doesn't always work,see something like daily lives of high school boys

Probably has a strong fujoshi demographic.

ahelo · 2012-11-01, 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vexx

Um.... wrong?

(from wiki - Houbunsha, Manga Time Kirara, seinen)
Written by Kakifly Published by Houbunsha English publisher NA
Yen Press

Demographic Seinen Magazine Manga Time Kirara
Manga Time Kirara Carat English magazine US
Yen Plus

Original run May 2007 – August 2012 Volumes 6

Genre and demographics are very relative terms so there shouldn't even be debates about this (I find it relatively annoying when someone points out "oh this is seinen or shonen or blablabla) and I'm pretty sure, at least marketing wise, K-ON's target demographic internationally is extremely different than Japan.

2012-10-29, 23:46	Link #81
aohige ( ಠ_ಠ) Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep	Well you see, the problem is And don't throw rocks at me for saying this, it's biased as hell, just my personal opinion. Asia-based developed MMORPGs tends to suck. Japanese, Korean, Taiwanese, Chinese... they just suck. Bad. The concept of "fun" is thrown out the window in favor of money-sucking grindfest. And yes, I've played quite a few, and spent a few years in RO as well. Unfortunately a holy merger of cute-cuddly designs and quality fun MMORPG simply hasn't happened. __________________

2012-10-30, 03:02	Link #85
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	The majokko genre was born in the contest of shoujo manga and anime aimed at girls. Originally it didn't feature any form of combat at all, which is why it never attracted a male audience on top of featuring all the common characteristic of shoujo manga. The first who changed it all was Sailor Moon which featured a group of magical girls (as opposed to a single one) who must "fight" together against a common foe, using a format very similar to anime like Saint Seiya or Samurai Troopers. Until then even in Japan it was considered unusual for a boy to like mahou shoujo anime and manga. I remember an interview with Naoko Takeuchi where she stated she was very surprised when she noticed that there were boys among her fans. After that it became somewhat less uncommon for that to happen and producers of magical girls show started to try and appeal female and male audience alike. But to be completely honest the idea that you can have "girly" anime and manga aimed at a male audience is fairly recent even in Japan. If you could travel back in time 20 years ago I doubt you'd find anyone that would consider K-on a seinen manga. Not surprisingly, this conception is still absolutely alien to the western world. __________________

2012-10-30, 03:17	Link #86
bhl88 Otaku Apprentice Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Unseen Horizon	But K-ON! is not even seinen... __________________ OS-tan Collections (temporary): https://discord.gg/Hv2rBs3

2012-10-30, 04:05	Link #89
Jan-Poo 別にいいけど Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: forever lost inside a logic error	I'd like to point out that the prevalence of a certain gender in a show has absolutely no relation to the demographic it is aimed to. What matters is how the characters are represented. I could tell which is a male character meant to appeal girls and which is a male character meant to be liked by boy with a single glance. That's because there's (sadly) an enormous discrepancy between what a girl wants her ideal man to be and what a boy can feel admiration for. Of course the reverse is also true. So you know when a manga or an anime is aimed to girls when the boys are clearly meant to appeal them as ideal partners and where girls are meant to be ideal models or girls they can indetify themselves with. Likewise when the women are clearly sexualized and you see panty shots every two seconds you KNOW it's really meant for boys. Now K-on and Madoka might cause a bit of confusion, because you can only understand that the characters portraited are meant to appeal (not necessarily sexually, but often so) a male demographic, if you are familiar with the niche subset of people that have a fascination for moe, cute and pure girls, as opposed to the busty, tall and sexy model. __________________

2012-10-30, 14:08	Link #93
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	K-On seems to be the one that was made for one grouping, but when animated, was directed to make it appeal to the other grouping as well. Thus "gold was struck". __________________

2012-10-30, 13:42	Link #91
ACTL_33 Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2012	Bleh. Their loss. Nothing wrong with male audience watching anime with girls as the lead stars. Not only that, but the OPs and EDs (especially the EDs) always have a special place in my heart. The ones done for the Pretty Cure seasons are a prime example of that.

2012-10-30, 14:56	Link #95
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Having a female director who might remember what school was like might have helped with that. Slightly less moe and more relationships, especially in the second season is probably was got them on Disney Channal Japan. That and probably Yui being Yui. __________________

2012-10-30, 14:59	Link #96
bhl88 Otaku Apprentice Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Unseen Horizon	Yui's the king queen of learning. __________________ OS-tan Collections (temporary): https://discord.gg/Hv2rBs3