To Aru Majutsu no Index II - Episode 4 Discussion / Poll

[Skyfall]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Unfortunately not everyone have a long range attack, low level magicians have to rely on specific weapons and those particular Nuns are wielding melee weapons so they're going to have to get medieval.

Next, even if you have a long range attack Index could easily switch to spell intercept which I assume Sister Lucia told the whole bunch of them not to even bother with magic against her. Removing their sense of hearing would also counter Index's interception as well.

Well, some moments earlier the nuns were throwing exploding feathers in droves at Touma as he was running through the church which resulted in him taking that huge leap to the rooftop, so they "do" have ranged attacks

And if Index is forced to switch to spell deflection (which may or may not work on those exploding feathers), which isn't an instant process from the one instance Lucia got to observe, she would be open to melee range as her chant would have been deactivated. Stabbing one's own ears should be the very last resort, not the first thing to do without trying other options.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Maahh~ I can understand that not everybody is going to like this series, that's why I just to stick to trying to explain stuff.

But what I don't like is when people take a minor/simple/small issue and blow it out of portion making look worse then it should. I have a feeling that if this show wasn't labeled 'science fiction' or that if they had never used any concepts that we can relate to, it wouldn't have fallen under such scrutiny.

[Hell_ping]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Maahh~ I can understand that not everybody is going to like this series, that's why I just to stick to trying to explain stuff.

But what I don't like is when people take a minor/simple/small issue and blow it out of portion making look worse then it should. I have a feeling that if this show wasn't labeled 'science fiction' or that if they had never used any concepts that we can relate to, it wouldn't have fallen under such scrutiny.

Well, like Chaos2Frozen, I'm not going to shoot anyone with comments. I'm not going to go about defending one side, or the other I'm just going to mess my head up trying to come up with something. I'll leave the explanations to him if he beats me to it (which is most likely).

Originally Posted by Skyfall

Well, some moments earlier the nuns were throwing exploding feathers in droves at Touma as he was running through the church which resulted in him taking that huge leap to the rooftop, so they "do" have ranged attacks

And if Index is forced to switch to spell deflection (which may or may not work on those exploding feathers), which isn't an instant process from the one instance Lucia got to observe, she would be open to melee range as her chant would have been deactivated. Stabbing one's own ears should be the very last resort, not the first thing to do without trying other options.

Those 'exploding feathers' are actually torches. Yes, 'torch' as in those you see when people walk into a pyramid. If you're thinking that's weird, they use Bibles as weapons as well...

The spell deflection (or 'Spell Intercept', the actual term given) also has a limitation in that it can't be used on many people at once. In season 1, when Index fought Sherry's golem, the 'Spell Intercept' worked because it was a one on one fight. This worked because Index can analyse the spell and basically 'hijack' the spell with words to mess it up. For AoE attack, Index uses Sheol Fear. For 1v1, she uses Spell Intercept.

[Master Assassin]

In the first place, is science fiction even worth scrutinying over what can we call "feasibility" and try to apply normal physics, common sense and everything? I don't understand the attempt of incorporating that thought while watching this series.

Probably one should exercise "Abandon all hope" (in the sense of 'just watch, even if it doesn't make any sense acceptable to your mind' ) attitude to this show.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Skyfall

Well, some moments earlier the nuns were throwing exploding feathers in droves at Touma as he was running through the church which resulted in him taking that huge leap to the rooftop, so they "do" have ranged attacks

What I meant was those Nuns were actually wielding... what do you call it? Feathered fan? Feathered duster? Anyway, they were using a specific weapon to correspond to their spells.

Yeah, low level magician grunt are pretty limited But it would help people appreciate the more powerful ones later.

(Edit: Oh yeah, and some of them were holding torches as well)

Originally Posted by Skyfall

And if Index is forced to switch to spell deflection (which may or may not work on those exploding feathers), which isn't an instant process from the one instance Lucia got to observe, she would be open to melee range as her chant would have been deactivated. Stabbing one's own ears should be the very last resort, not the first thing to do without trying other options.

I suppose it's for the shock factor as well? They are quite extreme.

Look, Similar to Sheol Fear which attacks the conflicting teachings of Christianity, the more I try to patch up, the more you're going to find holes I can only give suggestions that might help justify the scenes, which I feel is better than simply writing them off as bad or wrong and feeling all nasty about it.

Originally Posted by Teh_Ping

Well, like Chaos2Frozen, I'm not going to shoot anyone with comments. I'm not going to go about defending one side, or the other I'm just going to mess my head up trying to come up with something. I'll leave the explanations to him if he beats me to it (which is most likely).

Yup, no life... Right here *points to self*

Originally Posted by Teh_Ping

Those 'exploding feathers' are actually torches. Yes, 'torch' as in those you see when people walk into a pyramid. If you're thinking that's weird, they use Bibles as weapons as well...

They had feathered-something too I remember...

Originally Posted by Teh_Ping

The spell deflection (or 'Spell Intercept', the actual term given) also has a limitation in that it can't be used on many people at once. In season 1, when Index fought Sherry's golem, the 'Spell Intercept' worked because it was a one on one fight. This worked because Index can analyse the spell and basically 'hijack' the spell with words to mess it up. For AoE attack, Index uses Sheol Fear. For 1v1, she uses Spell Intercept.

You know that, I know that, but maybe those Nuns don't ?

[Hell_ping]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

You know that, I know that, but maybe those Nuns don't ?

Of course they don't. There's a fourth wall there. Of course, when one's mind goes crazy, the person ain't the sanest out there.

And to quote Volume 7:

Originally Posted by Volume 7

These people have all sorts of weapons: simple ones like swords and spears, ones that can barely be called weapons like silver rods and giant crosses, and even stranger ones for purposes unknown like gears as tall as humans and torches.

The way this is going, I can expect the nuns to have weapons like apples that can fall up.

Speaking of which, maybe I should ask the mods to create a thread for Index (the character)...

EDIT: Ah nevermind, we have it...

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by Skyfall

Almost nothing of what you said relates to the events of episode and is exaggeration.

Attacking the posters instead of their argument doesn't really add any credibility to your argument, which you have yet to present.

Unless you are implying that nothing in Index has to be credible or consistent, and it can get away with anything on the premise of "It's science fiction" (In which case i would disagree of it being science fiction, Index is a fantasy show), in which case actually discussing the show becomes fruitless.

Wow.
I notice the people who fight back against the people debunking arguments have a serious tendency to twist, and sometimes outright falsify, the words of the people doing the debunking.

a) Everything that I said relates to what Klashikari and others said. They're trying to use real-world logic to debunk a scene in a science-fiction television show. They're talking about real-life pain threshold in science-fiction/action, where people still deliver beat-downs while missing limbs or with their eardrums ripped out with their own fingers. (and this is far from limited to Index)
b) In what way am I attacking the people? I named names, of course. What, when I disagree with someone's points, it's an insult to them when I name them to specifically debate against their points? Please point out one line where I actually intended to attack them personally, because all I said was their points were pointless because this is far from the kind of unrealistic that should be criticised.
c) Arguing against criticizing one particular scene, which is far from unblievable anyway (if one monk can do it in real life, an army of devoted nuns can do it in fiction), hardly constitutes a total abandonment for believability. More to the point, using real-life pain thresholds to reason with how much pain characters can take in anime, is very much similar to trying to apply real-life physics equations to figruing out whether or not Mikoto can beat Accelerator; it's over-analyzing. Television is made for entertainment, and fundamentally requires a level of abandonment of believability to work properly. The Good Samaritan Law in Seinfeld, is a good example. Does anybody here actually think such a law could ever work? If it were ever brought up in real life, there'd be some kind of apocalyptic mob uprising. It didn't stop the staff of Seinfeld from making an episode about it.

Before the actual consequences of ear puncturing and convenience of everyone having two pens, there is the fact they did it in the first place - why ? They seemed perfectly fine standing a few meters away from Index (what is the effective range of her ability ... 2 meters?), so why not do the sensible thing and lob a ranged attack or two, which we have been shown they posses, at her to disrupt her chant ? If this bunch, for whatever reason, was unaffected by the chant, why do it at all? Given the situation at that point, this move seemed to be uncalled for in the first place.

Chaos2Frozen got that.

Next, lets assume the codex of nuns requires one to carry two pens at all times, that leaves the actual event of stabbing one's own ears with them. The pain from doing so would be incredible; not ouch-i-stabbed-my-arm-with-a-knife incredible, roll-on-ground-while-screaming-incoherently-while-your-head-is-about-to-explode incredible. Assuming they somehow can shrug that off, there is the sudden damage to vestibular system, as mentioned before. The implications of this go a good deal further than "can't hear" - we literally use hearing to keep us on-balance, or even standing, as well as for coordinating our movements, to actually being able to see straight. This isn't me trying to be over-analytical, it is me trying to put the damage done in perspective (And wondering whether the authors actually knew, i guess )- it isn't "minor" damage or inconvenience, it is a huge one. It is more or less on the same league as someone cutting off his leg with a sword, standing immediately up and hopping forward like nothing happened.

Why can't each of those nuns carry two fountain pens each? This is one of those criticisms that falls well under "over-criticism," because there's nothing at all wrong with or actually unbelievable about the nuns carrying two fountain pens each.
The part about hearing being a crucial part of balance is, as has been the whole thread discussion, a completely valid point of course. (and probably one of the, or the only, part of your post that isn't over-analyzing/over-criticism) Nevertheless, it's far from the first time somebody has received massive, serious damage to internal organs in anime/manga and continued to kick @$$, such as in my previously stated example back towards the beginning of the thread, so it's still over-criticism in the sense that tons of animes/mangas do the same thing without being ciriticized for it. (in particular my aforementioned example; digging into your own ear with your own fingers and ripping out your own eardrum is much harder to do than sticking pens in your ears)

Yes, it looks cool to have a bunch of nuns stab their own ears and fix you on the spot with angry glares while dripping blood, but believable is one thing it is not, unless the nuns are robots. Suspension of disbelief is all well and good, but i can't see a good in-universe reason for the above to develop the way it did. Being a fantasy show does allow one to get away with a lot (and it does, and i am fine with that), but it doesn't hurt to hold back a bit. I don't believe it has ever been established in-universe that To Aru ... humans differ much from us in functionality, hence why the rule of cool seemed to shine through here. One can get away with practically anything, so long as it aligns with the in-universe setup, and i am having doubts whether this episode did.

In no way would I ever try to reason away something like this just because it "looks cool." (and I'm pretty sure nobody here said something to that effect either, at the very least they didn't honestly mean it)
I've seen far more than this in anime and manga before (more often in manga, since manga isn't broadcast on open TV for kids to see ) Suffice it to say, I've seen plenty of things in anime that trump this little scene, and it lands far from unbelievable for me and anyone else who knows worse has been done in anime before. Seriously, this is kiddie stuff compared to some of the things out there, both in the level of violence in the act, and the level of unbelievability.

And on another note, please drop the notion that i (or anyone who expresses less than a completely positive opinion) dislike the show - if i did, i wouldn't be watching it. There is a middle ground between zealous worshiping something and frothing-at-mouth unrestrained hate, which is where i stand, as do many i assume, and it seems people have an easy time in general forgetting this.

And clearly (partial) vice-versa is easy, too; I don't see anybody getting on a soapbox and screaming "eternal damnation to Index 2" or people taking butcher knives to said people. I see people who defend the particular scene of episode 4 debating with the people who criticize said scene. It wasn't until you came in with statements of "attacking people and not arguments" and serenade's clear attack on me (which he seems to do often) for my sarcastic comment (which was clearly sarcastic because of "" and more importanly because I didn't name a single name) that things started to actually look anything like "haters vs lovers."

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

I'm sure there are better explanations, but as an example:
Criticism is what Skyfall is doing.

Hate is something like this:

(Hate towards people who criticize)
To be honest, I haven't seen any post in this thread so unreasonable that qualifies as "downright hate" except maybe the posts calling people "haters".

Way to turn a one-line sarcastic comment into malicious intent. You'd make a great politician.

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

But what I don't like is when people take a minor/simple/small issue and blow it out of portion making look worse then it should. I have a feeling that if this show wasn't labeled 'science fiction' or that if they had never used any concepts that we can relate to, it wouldn't have fallen under such scrutiny.

This is essentially what's going on here; far more unbelievable has happened in anime, yet this one scene is getting thrusted. It's a lot like people criticizing/whining (and yes, there are people who whine about it) about Touma's preaching; if you think he preaches, then you haven't seen anywhere near enough anime to know what preaching is. DBZ for one had worse than preaching; they just stopped every 2 minutes to argue with each other for 10. How do people think a 5 minute stretch of the battle in the Frieza saga went on for close 10 episodes? (besides the continuous, repetitive fighting, anyway)


Now I'm going to follow part of relentless' example in the Yosuga no Sora thread back during the "nice boat" rants; I'm going to leave the over-scrutinizng of that nun scene be and focus on enjoying my Index. So be warned for those replying to this (yes, very long ) post; I won't be replying, not on this part of the episode anyway.
I think some people are getting too worked up about it, and it's probably only a matter of time before a mod comes in to say "call it a night, guys" for everybody. The fact that certain people are starting to seriously bring up "lovers vs haters" in their posts strongly suggests both of the above.

[Master Assassin]

Finally -_-;;

Watching as I express my points of interest.

Spoiler for Commentary as I watch:

1. The animation somehow got a bit better this week, which makes it better for me since I wasn't entirely happy about it last week.

2. Touma really loves to "act first think later"... I can clearly see how he's outnumbered... and damn his timings into his moments of "Big Damn Heroes" combined with his Imagine Breaker sound effect, this is one of the reasons I like him as the hero of the whole series.

3. Nice punch there Touma. Now how I really wish you can throw hundreds of them like a certain shounen legend I always love depicting you imitating him. Along with that certain battle cry of "ATATATATATATA..."

4. ... Oh Stiyl, you got nice timing too... Wow, even if Index is not involved he surely have a good degree of compassion on his fellow Church followers.

5. Okay... too many people are in "I'll solve this." "No I will." "No me." "How about we do all of them together?" Even though their numbers lack those of the Roman Catholics... it's three factions against one. (Touma counts as one for me, why not?)

6. I find it funny how the other nuns who clearly outclass the "Orsola Rescue Mission" group in terms of manpower can ignore Orsola being carried away by Touma to safety... oh wait they didn't. But they were surely slowpokes to give Touma a chase only after he exited the building.

7. Nice way to introduce Itsuwa - RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM (Touma)! I hope this won't cause any much of a "storytelling paradox" later on...

9. Why lookie there if it isn't Sisconkado (Tsuchimikado ) and Kanzaki. Well since I already know what's their role in this arc already I guess I won't be bothering much about what they're going to do later on (except for Kanzaki, which... uh, well, wait for this arc to finish and see).

10. Torches that blow up when you throw it... I'm thinking it's some sort of an explosive Molotov cocktail right now... Man all that chase and all you need to shake some of them off, Touma, is just kicking them off the stairs? I guess you're THAT strong after all...

9. Sheol Fear... uh huh... whatever, moving on. (If I were to ignore what that actually does, I might be thinking that Index's singing a nice song and she's overpowering the nuns just by singing.) And oh hey it's a remix of "Destiny Begins" (the OST from the first series). Nice, I'll be sure to get the 2nd season's OST later on when it's out.

10. ... Deliberate destruction of hearing ability - well, as much as how I would like to remind myself I'm watching a story in motion, still... excuse me while I go and forget I ever saw that. =_=|||;;

11. Oh, episode finished! All right, time to lay back for now and anticipate next episode.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Soul Assassin

Finally -_-;;

Watching as I express my points of interest.


4. ... Oh Stiyl, you got nice timing too... Wow, even if Index is not involved he surely have a good degree of compassion on his fellow Church followers.

Actually he was referring to Index, she got 'attacked' last episode remember ?

[Master Assassin]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Actually he was referring to Index, she got 'attacked' last episode remember ?

... Ah, I see. I'm very sorry because I... uh, somehow don't have any memories of that

Oh well, most importantly is that I surely enjoyed myself with the episode this week.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

a) Everything that I said relates to what Klashikari and others said. They're trying to use real-world logic to debunk a scene in a science-fiction television show. They're talking about real-life pain threshold in science-fiction/action, where people still deliver beat-downs while missing limbs or with their eardrums ripped out with their own fingers. (and this is far from limited to Index)

Except that we aren't talking about the issue with science fiction related. We are talking about an issue that cannot be bypassed: the idea is that in this kind of fiction, the characters are humans. No matter how fancy they are, it is irrelevant unless the fiction states clearly that humans there work differently.
As far as we can see, magicians were protrayed a bit differently than your usual fictions, but they are definitely humans to begin with (breathing, eating etc). Therefore, it is plently reasonable to think they are biologically no different than any human.
Next: I only mentioned it is sort of hard to believe they wouldn't even twitch while piercing their eardrums (despite the LN explicitely stated they aren't as rigid as this). The real problem I stated was the balance issue: you -cannot- cope with that except after a long period. The vestibular system is just something you just cannot overcome as if you lost an eye or something.

If I were to complain solely about irrealistic facts, it would make no sense to watch Index to begin with. The problem is this episode has a plethora of badly designed setup done by the studio and flashy stuff that do not make sense, with a single unbelievable fact that I've mentioned. So far, my gripe is not the universe of Index as a whole. Rather, the incompetence of JC staff to portray something without going overboard or nonsensical. If I were to dislike the franchise, and not the way it was done, I wouldn't even watch this show to begin with.

Over analysis would be related to stuff like "how Styil can actually create flames without any spark?" "How Mikoto can actually pin point a target with an attack of that velocity?" etc. In a way, it would be complaining about set facts that do not require any explanation since the plot itself changes it accordingly due to the setup. But as far as I can see, I see no reason for the nuns to be able to have a special treatment here: and if we assume they are actually able to control their body after their balance control was shattered, one would question how come they don't have any magic enhancement that would counter the song (and since it isn't even a magical attack and the method to stop that, one would wonder why they didn't have some sound repelling spell/charm).

Chaos2Frozen got that.

Holes already explained: torches etc. They can even throw their swords and halberds for all they care, that would be even more useful here. Index was shown stuck with that incantation, and I doubt her frail body would be able to dodge hurled physical weapon on her faces. Let's suppose she can: she would have to cease her song for a short time, which would be a golden opportunity for the nuns to torn her apart before she incapacitates them again.
And for some reason, casting a mental crushing song made the first nuns flying in the air (but let's have the benefit of doubt that a song has an initial shockwave and none afterwards).

Nevertheless, it's far from the first time somebody has received massive, serious damage to internal organs in anime/manga and continued to kick @$$, such as in my previously stated example back towards the beginning of the thread, so it's still over-criticism in the sense that tons of animes/mangas do the same thing without being ciriticized for it. (in particular my aforementioned example; digging into your own ear with your own fingers and ripping out your own eardrum is much harder to do than sticking pens in your ears)

It looks like you assume that I'm blaming Index for irrealistic stuff while I don't with other series, although I don't spare them either (relating the critic with other series is irrelevant at this point).
More importantly, remember that you just cannot compare the damage there.
Having your vestibular system screwed makes you unable to do anything, because you need your balance AND spacial orientation to do something. Even if your body is perfectly fine, you aren't able to coordinate your moves properly to even stand up.
Whereas, having your internal organs damaged would definitely impair your movements, but you still can move and adapt your movements with pain and mobility restrictions. You still have -control-.

And obviously, I see no more credibility with characters doing the same as they did with their bare hands. The said scene of "that" series made me facepalm as much, don't worry.


I'm done with it either way, but it is sort of unnerving to have points taken as "overanalysis" when the intent and purpose were totally different. Notifications of convenient parts or nonsensical facts aren't going to ruin an already established episode so huh.

[-Sho-]

Well to start , this show is unrealistic since the beginning so it's not surprising.
Ex : Overpowered Touma's hand which can throw you away like 5-10 meters .
I won't compare it with reality same for the science-fiction .

But i agree that the fights/Actions/characters's involvement are getting dumber and clichés.
Currently this season 2 < Season 1. The nuns arc is silly ... not to mention Agnese's horrible clothes , is she really a nun ? ...
Fanservice does help too .

I prefer S1 imo .

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Next: I only mentioned it is sort of hard to believe they wouldn't even twitch while piercing their eardrums (despite the LN explicitely stated they aren't as rigid as this). The real problem I stated was the balance issue: you -cannot- cope with that except after a long period. The vestibular system is just something you just cannot overcome as if you lost an eye or something.

This is a 'your mileage may vary' element. A lot of people aren't in the know-how just how vital your ears are for your balance, and to those who do know these things come of as a lot less realistic than to the majority. It's like how space shows can make a lot of claims how space works, but any astrologist just smiles at how wrong they are. Does that make the show bad for not adhering to reality? Do we have to make things realistic for the minority, or do we stick with what looks cool? Fiction has to make choices like these, and judging by the amount of people who were impressed (or freaked out) by this scene versus those for who this scene went beyond the ability to suspend their disbelief, I don't think the author made the wrong choice.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Holes already explained: torches etc. They can even throw their swords and halberds for all they care, that would be even more useful here.

Ever tried throwing a sword? They don't exactly make the best of ranges weapons. In fact, they make horrible ranged weapons. Halberds are even heavier and less balanced. You'd be better of flinging pebbles at her. If you want reality, this isn't the answer (also, people holding weapons tend to be edgy about throwing them away in the heat of battle).

The torches are magic attacks, so they're potentially interceptable.

One thing I will agree with though is that the scene still is a tad flimsy. The nuns really don't seem to be out of hearing range, so they should still be affected by the song. This is, however, a problem that lies with the novel itself, as Index sees the nuns stabbing their ears, something that would be hard to see if they were far enough to be out of hearing range.

[Nightengale]

There are any number of awkward holes that can be poked into in this episode, or the entirety of Index for that matter. But that wasn't the point.

Ultimately, the Sheol Fear scene didn't really make any shift in the actual flow of the fight. The status quo of the battle was restored to prior of Index's intervention.

But the whole the meaning and point behind having that scene was to hammer the point that they were fighting against extremely loyal and almost-unwavering servants of God, who would gladly partake in lies and deceit or sacrifice themselves to defeat the enemies of God.

Was the whole scene ultimately , beyond any attempt of cheesing or justifying the execution of it, ultimately unrealistic and unnecessary? I don't think anyone can deny that, but it was an acceptable way ( within the boundaries of Rule of Cool ) to portray how 'extreme and committed' these nuns were.

That's why I wasn't bothered too much by it. Rationally, a lot of things didn't make sense, even by Index 'Rule of Cool' standards, but it's not that bad, because that scene conveyed what it was meant to convey.

[Klashikari]

There is nothing that prevents an author to choose BOTH reality and "cool" factor.

As for throwing melee weapons, it was half sarcasm half serious: their weapons are actually trash as they are since they have to go in melee range, ultimately incapacitated by Index then.
Throwing these would arguably be the best solution, even if it isn't optimal. For all it is worth, they were basically acting like bunch of helpless grunts before that group went on the extreme instead of finding a solution.
And as explained before, Index cannot use spell intercept on a full group, so she would be overwhelmed. Magically and Physically, they had the means to deal with her without going with the pens galore.

In any case, nightengale definitely pointed the purpose of such scenes, but that alone doesn't clear anything though. The author made some choices that aren't exactly the best, I see no reason to defend tooth and nails for that, although that was minor compared to JC staff rendition.

[Marcus H.]

To note, not a single nun threw their torches. It appears that two noted weapons of the Agnese Forces, the feather fan and the torch, aren't used as projectile weapons, but rather as artillery weapons that throw balls of magical energy and fire balls respectively.

[Nightengale]

One of this episode's problem, in regards to consistency and portrayal of certain elements, was how I believe that it focused too much of emphasising the numerical superiority of the nuns, and foregoing the more 'extremist' side of them only to the Sheol Fear scene at the end.

The squeals of the nuns as they get defeated, how they feel so disorganized and simply rushed around like untrained girls, the lack of any combat posture when they surround the enemies, the way they're animated when they run. ( like each of them was individually drawn by different outsourced animators from China ) All these combined to create an almost casual atmosphere when dealing with these nuns, creating a contrasting comparative atmosphere with the last scene or even the preview scene where we see crazy nun eyes through the door holes like they were zombies.

[Joe_fh]

I'm really surprised to see such long posts in this thread.
Honestly, I agree with things on both sides of the argument. In the end however it was a bit too much that those sisters didn't even twitch after that. And I'm not going with - in other animes there are things far more brutal yet the characters are still able to fight and etc. I'm going with what we've seen in Index so far since we're watching index and not all those other animes.

And to be honest, a person who loses a limb can lose the ability to actually feel the pain since it very intense and sudden the body goes into shock. However that's not the case with eardrums since puncturing them brings a lot more than pain as it was pointed out.

I get the point of the scene but it was just too weird for all the reasons pointed above. I still enjoy and love the series - doesn't mean I can't point out things that could have been better - and from what was said I think many do as well.

Oh and just for the record Sister Luccia's weapon is actually a ranged weapon from what I saw in episode 3 so they should have been able to attack from a distance. Of course if they went with that the whole "fanatically devoted servants of God" theme that was reinforced by the pen scene would have been lost since there wouldn't be a need for them to puncture their eardrums if there was another option.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

There is nothing that prevents an author to choose BOTH reality and "cool" factor.

Well no, there are plenty of stories in many genres that prove that it's not needed. Not unless you want to write a story about things that aren't real, like magic. And there are just as many examples of stories that bend or even completely ignore reality and are no less entertaining because of it.

Random example, we know throwing around lightning bare-handed is impossible for a human, but we don't mind one bit when Mikoto does this. Reality is an acceptable sacrifice when it comes to a story.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

As for throwing melee weapons, it was half sarcasm half serious: their weapons are actually trash as they are since they have to go in melee range, ultimately incapacitated by Index then.
Throwing these would arguably be the best solution, even if it isn't optimal. For all it is worth, they were basically acting like bunch of helpless grunts before that group went on the extreme instead of finding a solution.

It's worse than not optimal, you'd have trouble hitting someone when throwing a sword. Of course, after throwing your weapon it brings problem number two: Now you're in the middle of a fight without a weapon.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

And as explained before, Index cannot use spell intercept on a full group, so she would be overwhelmed. Magically and Physically, they had the means to deal with her without going with the pens galore.

If the entire group uses the same spell, spell intercept would work on all of them. The only block in spell intercept seems to be that each intercept is specifically tailored for a certain spell, but if all the nuns come at her with torches, that doesn't help much. They'd all be intercepted.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

In any case, nightengale definitely pointed the purpose of such scenes, but that alone doesn't clear anything though. The author made some choices that aren't exactly the best, I see no reason to defend tooth and nails for that, although that was minor compared to JC staff rendition.

Oh, I acknowledge the lack of reality, I just don't think it's as bad a scene as you do (though I would have preferred more pained expressions like the novel described). Like I said, it's pretty much a mileage may vary scene.

[Ice Block]

Originally Posted by Skyfall

so why not do the sensible thing and lob a ranged attack or two, which we have been shown they posses, at her to disrupt her chant ? If this bunch, for whatever reason, was unaffected by the chant, why do it at all? Given the situation at that point, this move seemed to be uncalled for in the first place.

She can move while doing that chant. And they need to puncture their eardrums so that they can move in and attack. Basically, as long as Index is chanting Sheol Fear, all the nuns capable of hearing her are incapacitated. Also, this isn't a 1vs250 battle. Index has allies too, and they can capitalize on her crowd control. It'll be extremely easy to fend off ranged casters when all the melee zerging you are incapacitated. Also, throwing swords? That'd just be plain silly. A distance wherein you can throw your sword (these things are heavy, you know) and accurately hit her (she could always just evade) while not being able to hear her at the same time does not exist.

Originally Posted by Skyfall

Assuming they somehow can shrug that off, there is the sudden damage to vestibular system

Wrong. It is a little bit deeper, and you can even mess up the cochlea a little and still sustain no damage to the vestibular system. See the images below.


Any more complaints?