2012-02-03, 16:53 | Link #27621 | |
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So if in that scene too Eva cried and hit Natsuhi in grief from Hideyoshi's death it wasn't after many hours... but short time after Hideyoshi's 'death'. |
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2012-02-03, 17:28 | Link #27623 | |
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So, just re-read Hideyoshi's EP5 murder... and I remembered all the reasons I have a distinct dislike of it.
Like I said, I believe Hideyoshi was faking, but unlike the First Twilight, we have no real proof of that. Things that make this room really confusing are Hideyoshi crying on the bed, Eva noticing the struggle from the other side of the door, and the fact that the whole affair apparently took less than 10 minutes. If Natsuhi's narration contains no lies, Eva pounding on the door serves NO purpose other than trolling Natsuhi. I'm starting to consider, though, whether Natsuhi's narration does contain lies. For example, she assumed Hideyoshi was crying to mourn the loss of George, but maybe he was crying because he feels guilty about what a horrible troll he's helping pull on his sister-in-law. It's similar to, say, if we'd gotten all of EP2 from George's perspective or something. Natsuhi is innocent, but we don't have a guarantee that her narration isn't false. Furthermore, just for argument's sake, it's apparent that any person could have actually murdered Hideyoshi, based on the evidence presented to Erika, as it's no longer a closed room by the time she gets there. HRM. Quote:
After the initial accusation, the survivor party even took the time to search the entire mansion for clues, regroup in the parlor (where Natsuhi had been detained), search the entire mansion again for Kinzo, and regrouped back to the Parlor (Natsuhi accompanied them to her room on this second go around). |
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2012-02-03, 18:22 | Link #27624 | ||
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2012-02-03, 20:57 | Link #27626 | |
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After all Beato doesn't even send her challenging letter this time. |
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2012-02-03, 22:03 | Link #27627 |
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Another thing that also falls in that same vain. If Yasu never created this Beatrice, why would she create Kanon? If she's hell bent in causing grief to the family, why would she hinder herself by making an alter ego? Does she feel anything at all for Jessica in this universe?
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2012-02-03, 22:35 | Link #27628 | |
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The same goes for Kanon. So it's possible that Yasuda of EP 5 has created her own version of Beato... only we aren't shown Yasuda's Beato but Natsuhi's Beato. The Beato of EP 5 is definitely created by Natsuhi though magic/meta scenes present her as if she was the same Beato as before and gave her the previous Beato's knowledge. Sort of like saying that there's only a 'piece!Beatrice' but this time it's Natsuhi that's moving it and not Yasuda... though handing the ring to Battler was probably Yasuda's decision (in fact we've a Beato who could care less about her resurrection but that's extremely loyal to Natsuhi...). I'm not too sure if I'm being clear... if I'm not I apologize... |
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2012-02-04, 09:32 | Link #27629 | |
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2012-02-04, 12:08 | Link #27631 | |
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So while Shannon is serving dinner, if one of the siblings were to ask 'Where's father?' 'He could be answered 'he decided to eat in his room, Kanon is serving him the food there.' This allow Natsuhi to have an extra servant that could testify that 'father is alive and is doing X in the Y place' without having to hire or bribe another person or asking to one of the servants to stay hidden and pretend he's with Kinzo... while Yasuda can make even more real her 'little brother'. It's possible she did so when she was busy checking everyone's alibi, after the cousins' 'deaths' and prior to Hideyoshi's... though I don't remember the exact quote so I might be wrong. |
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2012-02-04, 14:43 | Link #27632 | |
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I just cant see this version of Yasu going "God damn , what AM I? Let me just put my rage and quest for revenge on hold as I create a secondary persona that will undoubtedly hamper my grand plans. At least I'll feel better, I think" I also dont think that Yasu created Kanon just because of gender issues. She really cared for Jessica and wanted her to have a boyfriend, so she gave it to her. Its the reason why Kanon just cant exist if Jessica dies. Which is interesting, because lets say Erika actually inspected the corpses in the first twilight and confirmed their deaths. Would Kanon have died shortly after that? Or would he stay alive in this world? |
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2012-02-04, 15:07 | Link #27633 |
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Join Date: Dec 2011
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Am I the only one who wonders if TMF19YA might actually not be Yasuda? I mean, I don't really have any evidence for it, but then again, the only things that even point to it being Yasuda in the first place are:
1. Grudge against Natsuhi. 2. Will bringing up TMF19YA when referring to Yasuda, in EP7. 3. The age 19. That's about it... And so, actually, it's not necessarily Yasuda at all. It might have simply been: 1. (meta level) Lambda trying to give a hint at Yasuda's identity. 2. (game board level) Someone trying to use Yasuda's identity to mess with Natsuhi. They might not even be 19 years old. In particular, something that I keep wondering about is the fact that Battler seems to be deeply involved in some plot in EP5. I wonder if, maybe, Battler and Yasuda are actually working together in EP5. That would be ironic, since... Actually, why does everyone put such significance on Ronove's line about it being a game without love? This was only said once, and by him alone. Sure, it may very well mean that the motive isn't about love anymore (or it may mean something else), but it doesn't necessarily mean that there is no love to be found anywhere in EP5. |
2012-02-04, 15:38 | Link #27634 |
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Join Date: Oct 2010
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There aren't a whole lot of people that could fit though. Erika was with a group of people at the time Nats got a call right? Who else would know about Yasuda's identity? Battler pretty much pins it on himself, I think its been mentioned that the PS3s version had Battler as the caller as well.
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2012-02-04, 15:51 | Link #27635 | |
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EDIT: Okay, that's needlessly flippant. Let me put it this way. Yasu in EP5 is portrayed as having a reason for wanting revenge that Lambda can exploit in the making of her game. The only thing LEFT is "gender issues". Yasu obviously didn't care about being the head or the gold itself, otherwise they wouldn't have been offered up as prizes. The only thing left is the mutilation of Yasu's body--which Natsuhi was directly responsible for.
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2012-02-04, 15:51 | Link #27636 | |
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Again, Beatrice doesn't exist in EP5 as she did in the previous episodes. No letter, no mention from Maria and at most the delusions from piece Natsuhi flawed perspective and a passing remark by Maria when someone mentions the "golden land" part of the epitaph. |
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2012-02-04, 15:53 | Link #27637 | |
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On the other hand, there's the fact that Natsuhi (apparently) didn't recognize the voice. Considering the scene where she confessed to dropping the infant off the cliff 19 years ago, it seems that she did in fact believe it was the kid from back then, so she probably didn't recognize the voice. That narrows down the possibilities a lot more... After all, I only really know of one person in Umineko who is implied to have skill at manipulating their voice to sound different... Yasuda. However, it's worthy of note that the phone call scenes were delivered to us by a proven-to-be-unreliable perspective. There wasn't a Detective Piece present, or anyone else for that matter, so all of the scenes where we saw TMF19YA talking are completely wrapped in the darkness of the Witch. But, I guess the explanation that it was Piece!Yasuda is the best that I've got right now. If anyone finds something interesting on the matter of TMF19YA, please do share. There might have been plenty of hints that I'd forgotten. |
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2012-02-04, 16:01 | Link #27639 | |
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2012-02-04, 16:07 | Link #27640 | |
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This is one of the possibilities, it has a loads of problems that we've already gone trough in the past few pages. Theres also the possibility that they weren't the same person, thus crippling your theory entirely. That the culprit really was Battler as TMF19YA. Or that it was one of the kids/Rosa from the first twilight. |
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