AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Current Series

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2018-07-28, 14:39   Link #6341
BWTraveller
Born to ship
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Texas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyero Fox View Post
Getting upset about Power Levels is for the moronic power scaling community like LaughingStock and SethTheProgrammer.


You're basicly whining because its apparently IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to be stronger than Blue. *Cough Jiren*





You know, the backlash that a woman can go up against Goku. It's impossible and they are only Mary Sues if they can. :eyeroll:


Since when did we start taking a known to be dumb fun anime seriously?
You're getting even further from anything I'd ever heard there. Sounds more like the stuff certain people claim others are mad about anytime someone complains about a physically strong character who happens to be a girl. Those two are hardly the first powerhouses with vaginas in the Dragon Ball multiverse.
BWTraveller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-07-28, 23:18   Link #6342
Sixth
Hu Tao
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. DJ View Post


What backlash? If people didn't realize Goku was holding back the entire tournament till he fought Jiren, they're dumb. Go watch the fight again, Goku has no damage drawn on him when he fought Kale the first time.
This, Goku had been sandbagging ever TOP started. Even a weaken Goku easily schooling Kale and Caufilia in 2nd round. Kefla can't even handle more than one hit from a weaken Goku SSBBKK.
Sixth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-07-29, 06:32   Link #6343
Chosen_Hero
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
All I will say about Kale and Caulifla is the they were badly written Mary Sues that got too much power in too little a time frame (they go from normal to Super Saiyan 2 and 2.5 within a matter of 3 to 4 hours and that is taking into account that the entire tournament was almost an hour of that time). In my opinion at the very least the tournament should have taken place 6 months from the moment it was announced instead of a couple of hours, that would have at least have been a slightly believable (but still bs) timeframe to give them a proper character arc with maybe a small filler arc focusing on the U6 Saiyans.

Kale could have been a better character but only ended up being/coming off as an annoying lesbian and Caulifla was just another lazy Goku clone (as if we needed more of those). Cabba is the only one of them that is actually any sort of good and that is because we have had time to see him grow (even if just a bit) making his (also rather quick) transformations seem much more believable. It also doesn't hurt that he has his own personality instead of copying a already existing past character (yes, I know about the whole Vegeta's brother thing but they might as well be night and day unlike the other two).

These are my reasons for hating those two and none of it has to do with them being women. As much as I loved the ToP arc, I have to agree that there are many inconsistencies you can clearly see throughout that entire arc with Kale and Caulifla being the one that sticks out the most when you put one second of thought into their characters (at least for me).

But hey, if there is one silver lining it would be that at least this isn't as bad as the manga ToP.
__________________
Chosen_Hero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-07-29, 18:00   Link #6344
Kyero Fox
Tastes Cloudy
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Snake Way
Age: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero View Post
All I will say about Kale and Caulifla is the they were badly written Mary Sues that got too much power in too little a time frame (they go from normal to Super Saiyan 2 and 2.5 within a matter of 3 to 4 hours and that is taking into account that the entire tournament was almost an hour of that time). In my opinion at the very least the tournament should have taken place 6 months from the moment it was announced instead of a couple of hours, that would have at least have been a slightly believable (but still bs) timeframe to give them a proper character arc with maybe a small filler arc focusing on the U6 Saiyans.

Kale could have been a better character but only ended up being/coming off as an annoying lesbian and Caulifla was just another lazy Goku clone (as if we needed more of those). Cabba is the only one of them that is actually any sort of good and that is because we have had time to see him grow (even if just a bit) making his (also rather quick) transformations seem much more believable. It also doesn't hurt that he has his own personality instead of copying a already existing past character (yes, I know about the whole Vegeta's brother thing but they might as well be night and day unlike the other two).

These are my reasons for hating those two and none of it has to do with them being women. As much as I loved the ToP arc, I have to agree that there are many inconsistencies you can clearly see throughout that entire arc with Kale and Caulifla being the one that sticks out the most when you put one second of thought into their characters (at least for me).

But hey, if there is one silver lining it would be that at least this isn't as bad as the manga ToP.
But they aren't Mary Sues. Would they have been Mary Sues to you if they were men? Cabba got Super Saiyan by some dumb fake taunting and Trunks and Goten got it in pre-school doing nothing but horse play.

The Bias is clear as day if you ask me. you can call me stupid all you want. I can smell Bias Hate a mile away. People like you ignore Trunks and Goten because "They were comedy characters" or some other pseudoscience but at the end of the day, people got upset because they're women. What is so wrong with the Manga version hmm? Upset that Kale did the same thing Broly would have done if he were here? Did you get upset when Hit was uppercutted out? Do you follow SethTheProgrammer by chance? lol

If you took one second to think as you said. You'd realize Super Saiyan hasn't been a big deal for a long time and only now getting upset when its two women is clear bullshit. XD
__________________
Kyero Fox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-07-29, 18:05   Link #6345
Mad Pierrot
Corrupted fool
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: I'm everywhere
Age: 33
"Since when did we start taking a known to be dumb fun anime seriously?"

So we're defending an anime by just calling it dumb and thus it shouldn't be taken seriously. Trunks' arc in Super was one of the darkest things ever seen in the franchise and yet it was dumb? The franchise has comedy but it still tries to take itself seriously.

Quoting Vegeta in the Buu arc:
"This whole universe is going to die!!"

Then again once the Red Ribbon and Piccolo appeared the franchise started showing more drama than before. However, death became meaningless when we kept having sets of Dragon Ball, timetravel to undo Earth's destruction, etc.
Mad Pierrot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-07-29, 18:11   Link #6346
Kyero Fox
Tastes Cloudy
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Snake Way
Age: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pierrot View Post
"Since when did we start taking a known to be dumb fun anime seriously?"

So we're defending an anime by just calling it dumb and thus it shouldn't be taken seriously. Trunks' arc in Super was one of the darkest things ever seen in the franchise and yet it was dumb? The franchise has comedy but it still tries to take itself seriously.

Quoting Vegeta in the Buu arc:
"This whole universe is going to die!!"

Then again once the Red Ribbon and Piccolo appeared the franchise started showing more drama than before. However, death became meaningless when we kept having sets of Dragon Ball, timetravel to undo Earth's destruction, etc.
"Woops I forgot the seal lol"
Bulma - "Oh Zamasu have my babies hehe"


Yea, take it serious. =\ If you gotta use fake dumb math and reasoning to hate on a character ONLY because they got a power boost out of no where or a new form while so many before them have. It's clear bias.

Just Saiyan. Go ahead and hate characters for dumb reasons. But I hope you realize the main cast has done worse. OMG 17 can go against Blue THATS SO COOL AND COMPLETELY NOT ASSPULL.
__________________

Last edited by Kyero Fox; 2018-07-29 at 18:28.
Kyero Fox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-07-29, 18:29   Link #6347
RDNexus
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Portugal
Age: 36
Let us all be honest, the problem with the Power Levels and new Saiyan characters leveling up at lightspeed is majorly one: WRITING!!!
Toei (and quite possibly Toriyama as well) have been screwing it all up thanks to lazy writing and bad planning, simply because Rule of the Cool and because they think the little kids and hardcore fans to whom they believe to be mainly directing the story will eat it whole and even ask for more.
RDNexus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-07-29, 18:31   Link #6348
Kyero Fox
Tastes Cloudy
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Snake Way
Age: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrick View Post
Let us all be honest, the problem with the Power Levels and new Saiyan characters leveling up at lightspeed is majorly one: WRITING!!!
Toei (and quite possibly Toriyama as well) have been screwing it all up thanks to lazy writing and bad planning, simply because Rule of the Cool and because they think the little kids and hardcore fans to whom they believe to be mainly directing the story will eat it whole and even ask for more.
Rushed Arc = Rushed Powers

I would have loved a u6 arc but Nooooope!
__________________
Kyero Fox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-07-29, 18:40   Link #6349
RDNexus
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Portugal
Age: 36
Which arc was rushed? Each arc of the Anime even ended up having "filler" episodes, totally unnecessary.
And yes, I also once thought a U06 Arc might come to happen, but never did. Honestly, still nothing lost.

In a sense, the Manga's pacing, while faster, seems to make great use of the setting and events of each arc and even offers additional details or more proper explanations to a good few things.
RDNexus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-07-29, 18:50   Link #6350
Millennium Dude
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: In America
I’m not all that hype for Broly coming back. But then again, I am getting tired of all of these abundance of saiyans popping out all over the place. If they were going to bring back Broly, what was the point of Kale? Did they bring Broly back because Kale was poorly received?
Millennium Dude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-07-29, 19:09   Link #6351
Blueknight78
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Millennium Dude View Post
I’m not all that hype for Broly coming back. But then again, I am getting tired of all of these abundance of saiyans popping out all over the place. If they were going to bring back Broly, what was the point of Kale? Did they bring Broly back because Kale was poorly received?
actually was the opposite kale and caulifla where great popular and well received by the public, the problem aways is the "loud annoying minority" which hate anything which is not what they want.

broly coming obvious was due to kale sucess and broly fans get hyped from kale.

And i do also the manga ToP compared with anime is terrible and one of the worst BS arcs, i was annoyed by the trumps arc but the ToP managed to go worst with they "spped of light" bs, pulling off almost everyone.
__________________
http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.icon/signaturepics/sigpic240848_1.gif:small
Blueknight78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-07-29, 19:19   Link #6352
Galaxian
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueknight78 View Post
broly coming obvious was due to kale sucess and broly fans get hyped from kale.
More like Kale was created to capitalize on Broly's popularity.
Galaxian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-07-29, 19:45   Link #6353
Blueknight78
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galaxian View Post
More like Kale was created to capitalize on Broly's popularity.
yeah, i wanted to means, kale was created from broly popularity and it make her "own popularity help make toryama and toei want to make broly cannon since she proof to be a sucess them it make more easy for them to add broly to the cannon.

Let me put like that: they popularity helped each other, broly created kale which helped broly become's cannon.
__________________
http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.icon/signaturepics/sigpic240848_1.gif:small
Blueknight78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-07-30, 17:39   Link #6354
DemonneoPT
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Portugal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyero Fox View Post
But they aren't Mary Sues. Would they have been Mary Sues to you if they were men? Cabba got Super Saiyan by some dumb fake taunting and Trunks and Goten got it in pre-school doing nothing but horse play.

The Bias is clear as day if you ask me. you can call me stupid all you want. I can smell Bias Hate a mile away. People like you ignore Trunks and Goten because "They were comedy characters" or some other pseudoscience but at the end of the day, people got upset because they're women. What is so wrong with the Manga version hmm? Upset that Kale did the same thing Broly would have done if he were here? Did you get upset when Hit was uppercutted out? Do you follow SethTheProgrammer by chance? lol

If you took one second to think as you said. You'd realize Super Saiyan hasn't been a big deal for a long time and only now getting upset when its two women is clear bullshit. XD
Trunks and Goten are hybrids. Like Gohan, hybrids are born stronger comparable to the current powerlevel of the parents. Even in the anime, Nappa suggests the creation of human/saiyan offspring with Vegeta dismissing the idea because it would be impossible to control them (although that part was probably filler, but at least it was a theory that made sense and explored Gohan's amazing power in a cool way). Cabba had the same problem as Caulifla and Kale. U6 saiyans needed their own arc but we got way too much slice of life filler and an extended giant pointless recap from the movies instead. Not just that, but like xrick says, the rule of cool and lazy writing did not help their case either. Granted, DB never had outsdanding writing or flawless powerlevels but Super took it to the next level. A character with such a funny personality like Caulifla and a Broly homage like Kale (with potential to explore the saiyan story later on) definitely deserve better treatment. They could be cool and powerfull without sounding like bullshit. I mean, having Kale tanking a SSJ Blue kamehameah in one instance and then later on being unable to do shit against a tired Goku (with a 2vs1 advantage) and being one shot by Jiren says everything about the writers consistency.
DemonneoPT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-07-30, 19:11   Link #6355
Kanon
Kana Hanazawa ♥
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: France
Age: 37
Nappa suggesting they breed with Earthlings was in the manga too. Hybrids have always been special.

Toriyama provided another explanation for Goten and Trunks getting SSJ so easily with S-Cells since then though. An explanation that applies to U6 Saiyans. What doesn't make sense now is that none of them went SSJ before. Cabba is a soldier, are we really supposed to believe he never got angry in his life?
__________________
Rize and Kaneki
Kanon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-07-30, 23:12   Link #6356
Archon_Wing
On a mission
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Not here
Age: 40
Send a message via MSN to Archon_Wing
Damn, they're recycling a recycled villain that was already recycled? And he was never that great to begin with. I mean we already degenerated into Bio Broly FFS.

Should resurrect Nappa or something. At least that'd be funny.
__________________
It doesn't sound like my love is getting to you.
I will not lose anymore; I will not give up.
More passion than hope, much deeper than despair.... Love!

Avatar/Sig courtesy of TheEroKing
Guild Wars 2 SN: ArchonWing.9480
MyAnimeList || Reviews
Archon_Wing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-07-31, 00:21   Link #6357
BWTraveller
Born to ship
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Texas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyero Fox View Post
But they aren't Mary Sues. Would they have been Mary Sues to you if they were men? Cabba got Super Saiyan by some dumb fake taunting and Trunks and Goten got it in pre-school doing nothing but horse play.

The Bias is clear as day if you ask me. you can call me stupid all you want. I can smell Bias Hate a mile away. People like you ignore Trunks and Goten because "They were comedy characters" or some other pseudoscience but at the end of the day, people got upset because they're women. What is so wrong with the Manga version hmm? Upset that Kale did the same thing Broly would have done if he were here? Did you get upset when Hit was uppercutted out? Do you follow SethTheProgrammer by chance? lol

If you took one second to think as you said. You'd realize Super Saiyan hasn't been a big deal for a long time and only now getting upset when its two women is clear bullshit. XD
Seriously I'd have to admit they actually have some legitimate points, and therefore that it's unfair to declare them to have "bias hate" basically on account of the fact that the people they hate are women. Trunks and Goten were raised by Super Saiyans, at least one of whom trained one of them from a young age. It was crazy and in my opinion stupid to make them just go SS so quick but they did have a whole lot of exposure. Cabba was one of the champions selected by the God of Destruction, a powerful and noble Saiyan, not to mention clearly established as sufficiently trusting that he'd buy it when Vegeta threatened to destroy everything and everyone he loved. Caulifla did not experience any actual taunting or exposure beyond a couple seconds, and was told to try and gather energy between her shoulder blades, and somehow that was enough to make her not just go SS but make it briefly to SS2. I don't personally have so much of a problem with Kale, as she's clearly based on someone who was himself a ridiculous OP character, so she has her own kind of precedent. But Caulifla's meteoric rise was indeed stupid plain and simple. Not because she's a woman, but because she was the point where SS was rendered a total joke. It was shrugged off a bit with the brats and forced people to speculate, but it was here that multiple levels were transformed into low-level parlor tricks.

I don't necessarily think they're "Mary Sues" but the definition that fits them would indeed fit them regardless of gender. I for one don't see people hating them because they're women in a show that's already demonstrated it has no problem with powerful women, more powerful than SS from the get-go even. I just see people who hate someone who happens to be a woman. Nothing more, nothing less. Plenty of characters have received hate and derision on account of their character before, male and female alike, for anything from dislike of their character or backstory to problems with their power levels. It shouldn't raise such alarms just because the newest one is female.
BWTraveller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-07-31, 00:44   Link #6358
Blueknight78
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by BWTraveller View Post
Seriously I'd have to admit they actually have some legitimate points, and therefore that it's unfair to declare them to have "bias hate" basically on account of the fact that the people they hate are women. Trunks and Goten were raised by Super Saiyans, at least one of whom trained one of them from a young age. It was crazy and in my opinion stupid to make them just go SS so quick but they did have a whole lot of exposure. Cabba was one of the champions selected by the God of Destruction, a powerful and noble Saiyan, not to mention clearly established as sufficiently trusting that he'd buy it when Vegeta threatened to destroy everything and everyone he loved. Caulifla did not experience any actual taunting or exposure beyond a couple seconds, and was told to try and gather energy between her shoulder blades, and somehow that was enough to make her not just go SS but make it briefly to SS2. I don't personally have so much of a problem with Kale, as she's clearly based on someone who was himself a ridiculous OP character, so she has her own kind of precedent. But Caulifla's meteoric rise was indeed stupid plain and simple. Not because she's a woman, but because she was the point where SS was rendered a total joke. It was shrugged off a bit with the brats and forced people to speculate, but it was here that multiple levels were transformed into low-level parlor tricks.

I don't necessarily think they're "Mary Sues" but the definition that fits them would indeed fit them regardless of gender. I for one don't see people hating them because they're women in a show that's already demonstrated it has no problem with powerful women, more powerful than SS from the get-go even. I just see people who hate someone who happens to be a woman. Nothing more, nothing less. Plenty of characters have received hate and derision on account of their character before, male and female alike, for anything from dislike of their character or backstory to problems with their power levels. It shouldn't raise such alarms just because the newest one is female.
remember cabba had told which caulifla was called to be top dog(the strongest sayan until they find out about kale being the legendary sayan) in they sayan world then it make total sense she being like that, she was told being a "prodigy and as you told kale was just "lucky to be born" as the legendary sayan.

caulifla had/have some hype before she started to fight, peoples just like to forget it.

She is pretty much the "goku" of her universe the prodigy with the potential to become insane strong as goku.
__________________
http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.icon/signaturepics/sigpic240848_1.gif:small
Blueknight78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-07-31, 00:59   Link #6359
BWTraveller
Born to ship
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Texas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueknight78 View Post
remember cabba had told which caulifla was called to be top dog(the strongest sayan until they find out about kale being the legendary sayan) in they sayan world then it make total sense she being like that, she was told being a "prodigy and as you told kale was just "lucky to be born" as the legendary sayan.

caulifla had/have some hype before she started to fight, peoples just like to forget it.
Even as a powerful individual, reducing the transformation to just focusing energy between your shoulder blades and allowing instant transformation to level 2 is carrying things a little far. I personally liked her well enough, but still taking something that no one (even Trunks and Goten) got immediately into something anyone with some power could do just by focusing energy in a certain spot, and at the same time claiming that absolutely no one had ever done that in the universe's history, is stretching things really far. It's like those places that say the legendary martial arts "touch of death" is legitimately a point on the body where a single touch would kill: there'd be numerous people just falling dead because they accidentally touched that spot. The Saiyans of U6 are galaxy-wide champions of justice who fight countless battles, and not one skilled soldier stumbled on such an easy technique?
BWTraveller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2018-07-31, 01:12   Link #6360
Blueknight78
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by BWTraveller View Post
Even as a powerful individual, reducing the transformation to just focusing energy between your shoulder blades and allowing instant transformation to level 2 is carrying things a little far. I personally liked her well enough, but still taking something that no one (even Trunks and Goten) got immediately into something anyone with some power could do just by focusing energy in a certain spot, and at the same time claiming that absolutely no one had ever done that in the universe's history, is stretching things really far. It's like those places that say the legendary martial arts "touch of death" is legitimately a point on the body where a single touch would kill: there'd be numerous people just falling dead because they accidentally touched that spot. The Saiyans of U6 are galaxy-wide champions of justice who fight countless battles, and not one skilled soldier stumbled on such an easy technique?
Because they don't know about "SS", remember it was vegita which teach cabba about the "SS" and the sayans in universe 6 overal where strong than sayans from universe 7 (talkling about average sayans not goku and his crew), because unlike universe 7 they where not put into almost disappear from the universe unlike they counters in the universe 7 which where erased by frieza, they where the universe 6 protectors/heroes, this means which most of then where trained and probably strong enough to be able to become a SS or close enough of that,.

Remember to turn in a SS is not some complex ritual like the SSG all you needed in the beginner is get enough anger than later just be "kids playing".
__________________
http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.icon/signaturepics/sigpic240848_1.gif:small

Last edited by Blueknight78; 2018-07-31 at 10:40.
Blueknight78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
action, dragon ball z, shounen, super powers, tragedy

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:37.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
We use Silk.