2004-05-27, 15:14 | Link #221 |
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We've seen that Neji sees Naruto's body in a chakra-lines sort of way.
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These two imply that the Byakugan see things in a vastly different way than the Sharingan. Remember that when Sasuke used the Sharingan in the Forest against the genjutsu, he could see the genjutsy bodies as chakra lumps. Everything else was normal. It's true that a Sharingan user wouldn't use chakra-intensive jutsus when fighting multiple opponents (or probably wouldn't - unless there IS some sort of super-multiple-enemy-jutsu), but I can't see an argument where the Sharingan is better than the Byakugan when fighting multiple opponents. The Byakugan, after all, has that crazy 360º vision and the Kaiten (which I think we agreed as "cannot be copied"). |
2004-05-27, 19:21 | Link #222 |
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Hunter. I'm not talkign about the sharignan and the byukagan in general. I'm talking about them versus each other. Althogh I still believe Byukgan can is better. Well an advanced hyuga user is better but not so advanced sharingan user vs. a not so advanced byukgan user is better. So I'm talking aobut the limit of those 2. Though we've seen mroe of the sharingan.
The moves you mentioned aside from the fire move. Do you know if they will work agaisnt a Hyuga? The genjutsu and the hypnotism. It's a fact that they can't copy their jutsus. The hyuga's can see the world in a different way than normal, they dont' have to focus on the eyes which according to Gai and Kakashi is the way to beat it. They can just look at the chakra holes. About the prediction. How does it actually work? In the anime it showed Sasuke seeing things in slow motion, little by little, being able to predicct things like that. Or is it actually the future and the sharingan as another move never mentioned that allows them to do that. I'm not sure about this one, espeically since I haven't read that fight yet in the manga, the haku and the lee fight which shows that slow motionthing at the sam etime. In a way the hyuga cna predic ttings too. Tehy cannot be caught off gaurd iwth the byukagan activated. They can see 359-360, through objects, and as I mentioned before Hiashi predicted or rather sensed Hizashi had a killing intent when he was training Hinata. Can't the same thing be done for moves? We've seen fully mastered sharingan with (just an assumption but I think it's true) with all it's move aside form a taijutsu move which I'm thinking it has. But we've seen only a genin hyuga and that's it. Although we do know that they are capable of 1 hit kills without getting themselves tired(better than the sharingan moves, although the only drawback is it's close combat). About the kaiten wasting huge amounts of chakra like you said. Neji a genin was able to do lots of them. He was never tired from that, only from facing off agaisnt kyubi naruto. And that was after the 64 hands. If he can do that. He must have more than massive amoutns of chakra. but he doens't. They are good at controlling chakra, meaining that less chakra is wasted. It may be only a little. Considering the amount Neji did and wasn't even tired. |
2004-05-28, 14:34 | Link #223 | |||
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Once again, the Byakugan isn't know to erase a part of what the user sees to see something else behind (like you said, Hyuuga don't run into trees ), but to see everything. A Hyuga would see the inner coil of a Sharingan master. And his eyes as well. Quote:
Like I said, the manga has showed that the Byakugan's vision sees everything at almost 360°. Everything else was normal (haha I wanted to say that too ) Quote:
Nine Devil : Godzilla-class-Summon for example? |
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2004-05-28, 18:20 | Link #225 | |||||
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'Except to predict his moves, hypnotize him, use the vast amount of jutsus copied, crush his mind or even kill him inside the world of Tsukiyomi, vaporize him at sight with the Amaterasu?' I didn't say that the Sharingan user could copy jutsu because that's the only thing that he can't do against a Hyuga. Quote:
Firstly, the Sharingan didn't allow its user to see the futur and I don't remember that the manga says that the Sharingan sees in slow motion. The Sharingan can read and analyze Taijutsu as well as the others kind of jutsu, and with enough time to completely read the way of figthing of his opponent, the Sharingan user can know slightly in advance how his opponent will move and thus start to react to the move slightly before it happens. Quote:
That's completely different. Hiashi never predicted anything (do you really know what this word mean? ) he merely sensed Hizashi killing intent, that's not even a Byakugan ability, about every ninja can do that. Quote:
Actually, to use that as an argument is pretty much the same as to say that for the moment you think that the Sharingan's better because the Byakugan needs something more Then, the Jyuken is surely an incredible fighting style, actually I think that the advanced Jyuken of Neji (with the Tenketsu) is the best and deadliest Taijutsu style of the whole serie. But the 1 hit kills isn't reserved to the Hyuga, Spoiler:
And that's just a hand seals, something that a Sharingan user can copy in a glance. Quote:
Neji's a genious at chakra's control and at convert stamina into chakra, way better than about anyone actually (for his age anyway), and he does has a massive amount of chakra. Nine Devil, do I think that it's probable that Itachi has some kind of summon? Yes, I think that's extremely probable. But as Raikage said, until it's shown that Itachi has one, or even his mentioning that he has one, he doesn't. It really is just that simple. And even if he has one, that doesn't mean that he has the crazy amount of chakra of the Sannin to summon a Godilla-class summon. As the 3rd had Enma and not some gigantic monkey. |
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2004-05-28, 20:34 | Link #226 | |
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2004-05-28, 21:44 | Link #227 |
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i also dont think that the byukagan when activated will be affected by the sharingan bloodlimit genjutsu. and the reason is the fact that they see everything. if you think back to when gai was talking about how to face the sharingan he says that it all depends on where your eyes are focused. when a hyuga is using his 360 degree vision you cant say he is focusing on any one spot because he is seeing everything. as long as they dont focus on the sharingan users eyes they will be able to avoid the jutsu. now that doesnt mean that they are imune to the technique. even if they are able to see 360 if they focus on the eyes just once the sharingan can put them in the jutsu.
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Last edited by wb_hicks; 2004-05-29 at 07:55. |
2004-05-28, 22:52 | Link #228 |
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That's just wrong.
Gai said that you mustn't look at the eyes at all, that's why you must only look at the Sharingan user's feet and grasp the enemy's move just from his feet movement alone. Think. If not you would just have to be focused on his mouth or his neck or whatever and that would be all. And put spoiler tags in your post. |
2004-05-28, 23:01 | Link #229 |
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Join Date: Jan 2004
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Hmm hunter there is a problem.
If you looking at the persons neck is bad,since your eyes are still taking them in,then all the person has to do is slightly move his head and get the enemies eye field of vision in his and BAM its over. It has to be a link of some sort that a direct stare gives off,or else why the feet also? True it may be easier to look away and harder for the person to move his head into the persons fov. I think its more complicated then we know. |
2004-05-29, 01:52 | Link #230 |
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First of all, just because it's a large summon doesn't mean it's stronger.
What you said about the sensing thing Hunter is wrong. So every ninja has the level of insight as the hyuga? You seem to hate the hyuga for some reason. Even Neji once again only a genin and a branch family member was able to read all of Hinata's emotions basically thoughts easily, although considering her a lot of people would be able to do that. But he did the same with Naruto. According to you, the jyukagen's moves take massive amounts of chakra. About every ninja has the level of insight as someone with the byukagan. The sharingan can predict heaps into the feature. You somehow think it's more possible for the sharingan to have more moves than the byukagan. And that the 1 hit kills things with no chakra wasted is very common(chidori and rasengan take massive amounts). ' Also Gai said don't "focus" on the user's eye. With the byukagan eactivated they won't focus on their eyes. It can be like not seeing htem at all but their chakra pathways. I do think you are very biased. |
2004-05-29, 05:55 | Link #231 | |
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2004-05-29, 11:29 | Link #232 | |||||
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It's even funnier when they're obviously so biaised themself that they didn't understand half of what going on with the current discussion, in your case it's even worse, you basically didn't understand a single point. Quote:
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The capacity to feel the Saki, the murderous intent, isn't about a particular insight at all. And once again the whole thing about to know that if your pupils look at the left top you remember the past, that if you lie you will look at the right and this kind of thing isn't a Byakugan ability, not that this bloodline can't help because with it you will not miss a single details, but the Sharingan or any people with a good sens of attention can do the same. And btw, the Hyuga's bloodline is awesome, they have the better Taijutsu style, they have the style, they're fashion and Neji is one of the coolest character in the whole series. Quote:
1/ No I said exactly the opposite, the Jyuken is mainly a Taijutsu using a little chakra and thus is more about stamina than chakra except for the Kaiten which use the chakra directly as a weapon and use a large amount of chakra : it's stated in the manga. 2/Into the feature? If you mean the future then you should read a post when you answer to it that can be useful given that I precicely said that the Sharingan can't read into the future. Then it's stated that the Sharingan user can predict the moves on his opponent, it's said in the fight against Haku, it's said in the fight against Gaara, and it's re-hinted in the fight against Rock Lee when he said that even if the Sharingan can read his movements it's useless because Sasuke's body hasn't the reflexes to use that. So once again : it's stated in the manga 3/Read my posts instead of making a fool of yourself, i never said that it was impossible for the Byakugan to have more abilities (and not more moves sigh ), I said that until they would be showed in the manga you can't say that new abilities exist. 4/I never say that it was common, I say that it wasn't unique to the Hyuga and I never speak about the Chidori or the R*. jutsu, they're punctual jutsu, not something that you can use to permanently upgrade your fighting style during a whole fight. Quote:
The Byakugan isn't a uninsight ability who would allow not to be focused on everything ( ), it's exactly the opposite, an crazy insight ability allowing to notice every single details at almost 360°. |
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2004-05-29, 12:06 | Link #233 |
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In reading your opponent. You seem to think even in your latest post that anybody can do it as good as the Hyuga. Kakashi specifically said that they have a high level of insight. When it comes to looking at people it's worse than say looking the environment?
I said your biased based on the fact that I remember someone saying it(well it might have been nine devil) that siad something along the lines of that it's more possible that the sharingan has more moves that hasn't been shown than the byukagan. That's quite stupid in my opinion. How am I biased? The quote if you call it that about Rock Lee. There's a difference between reading your movements and seeing into the future and knowing what they're going to do. I never said that you think it's impossible that the byukagan as more abilites. read the first paragraph of my post about that. I don't base all my things on comments. If you see the time in the manga where Neji looks at Shino you see how they see the opponenets when they look into them. I don't see any eyes solidly there. You seem to think that all you say is facts. |
2004-05-29, 12:49 | Link #234 | |||||||
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When did I say that the Byakugan's capacity to look at people should be worse than looking the environment blahblahblah? Never. It's that difficult to stop to invent point and just read what I say instead? Quote:
... Your logic makes perfect sens. Quote:
You did notice that I say 2 or 3 times that the Sharingan can't see into the future right? Quote:
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The manga states that the Kainten use a large amount of chakra? Who cares. The manga states that the Sharingan can predict the moves? Who cares. The manga states that the Byakugan see everything including eyes? Who cares. The manga shows plenty of people feeling murderous intent? Who cares. ... No wonder you seem to not read what I'm saying, you probably just ignore what you don't like. Then try to think at least a little, it's imposible to draw what the Hyuga see, the panels in the manga would be all black by the innumerable features of every single things around. That's as stupid as to say that Neji doesn't hit 64 times during the 64 hands of Hakke because Kishimoto didn't draw every single of the 64 impacts but just much of them Quote:
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2004-05-29, 13:40 | Link #235 | ||||||
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The murderous intent, there's a reason that I also gave an example of Neji and Hinate fight. They have greater perception I think that would also mean they can see how the person reacts to things better also. I know the manga says that sharingan can predict moves. You can say that predicting is knowing what they would do best on what you know about them or seeing them do the move in an extremely slow and detailed way(what i think it does as shown in the anime) or ou can say that it can see in the future which I doubt it can. Quote:
[quote] Then try to think at least a little, it's imposible to draw what the Hyuga see, the panels in the manga would be all black by the innumerable features of every single things around. That's as stupid as to say that Neji doesn't hit 64 times during the 64 hands of Hakke because Kishimoto didn't draw every single of the 64 impacts but just much of them [\quote] Reread the time Neji sees Shino. Quote:
I added quotes just in case you forget what you posed again. |
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2004-05-29, 20:21 | Link #238 | ||||||
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I (because it seems that it wasn't a 'we' after all) discussed of the ability to say that someone is scared because he touches his lips, that he thinks about the past by looking to the left top, that he lies by looking at the blahblahblah. It isn't a capacity of the Byakugan, you just have to look closely at the face of someone to do the same. Quote:
Once again when Kishimoto draw a Byakugan vision, he didn't draw all what a Hyuga sees, it's impossible. When Neji looked at Shino, the manga shows the bugs because it's the current point, Neji is still able to see though Shino but it's not drawn because the panel would be illegible. That's the same when Neji and Hinata looked at each others with the Byakugan, there wasn't any background at all, all the panel was grey. That doesn't mean that when they look at the inner coil they become unable to see around them, just that the important point was to show the inner coils system. Quote:
That's like Itachi feeling Sasuke's arrival in his back, he hasn't the Byakugan to see behind him, he just senced him. And anyway Hiashi wasn't even using the Byakugan when he sensed the saki of his brother lol In the other hand, it's true that a Byakugan user can react to thing better since he can see every single details that happens at the same time. Quote:
The Sharingan can see through a Taijutsu style as well as a Ninjutsu or Genjutsu, once the user has understand the way of moving of the opponent he can predict the moves, that's what Sasuke did against Haku and Gaara. Quote:
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2004-05-29, 20:31 | Link #239 |
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Omg hunter, you must really like this thread.
Ok, I'm not going to add something to the discussion here, since my lack of knowledge of them both will probably end up in saying that "I'm wrong" and "it's not true", or, "it doesn't work that way". All I can say is that I read Dragon Flame's signature thingy, and that I was convinced afterwards... |
2004-05-29, 20:48 | Link #240 | |
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You could say the Byakugan does have increased perception as well, like when Neji pretty much described Naruto's feelings, Neji doesn't know Naruto, he only met the kid at the Chunnin exams, before that he never knew Naruto, he's only seem him for a short time. Saki = a point, tip, end, could be used for penisula Sakki = thirst for blood |
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