Code Geass Episode 13 Discussion / Poll

[ImperialKnight]

Originally Posted by Village Idiot

Thats basically saying that in Iraq, there are people whom are supporting the insurgancy in this particular town, thus its perfectly okay to massacure them all.

Ah the good old, relate to the world.

Were talking about Britannian Empire here, not the United States. Britannia is a much more brutal and extreme nation that thrives on strong to kill with no hands tied behind your back.

Besides, when Cornelia attacked the JLF she simply evacuated the civilians even though as the scientists stated, it was known to be an area strongly for the JLF.

[Majek]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

or it could make him falling even deeper into our pit of hatreds proving once and for all that hes as thick as a brick wall...i mean his first statment "i join the army in order to save lives" is already crazy enough...he kills to save but that a contridiction to his belief O.o

Bah. That's something they are never afraid of doing. Hate makes the world go round.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Seems like there are different stories running around about the episode. Maybe this'll clear up.

Britannia -

The operation is to capture General Katase alive in which the Naval Squadron is responsible for. Suzuka and the other Knightmares are to provide covering fire while the Naval Squadron boards the craft and captures the General. He is also ordered specifically to be careful not to hit any civilian vessels(Of course, no one's going to be at the docks at that time). Also because of the tankers in the area and the fact the ship is carrying sakuradite (Which is violatile).

The dilemna for Suzuka is that once the General has been captured he is ordered to execute the remaining survivors. The rationale for this is because Cornelia is looking to promote Suzuka, however, she needs to know that she can trust him. Afterall, Suzuka IS japanese and the son of the former prime minister so there is still some skeptisim. It's basically a "Final test of trust and loyalty" before he enters the rank which I'm sure all of us are familiar with.

Fortuantely for Suzuka, Zero does that for him (Suzuka really needs to give Zero more credit)

However, likewise, it's basically one sided since the JLF have no KF to protect them(But then again, wasn't that the same when Britannia invaded Japan and completely obliterated them with KF?). This is where Suzuka feels uncomfortable, especially when they surrender but by that time the ship starts moving (hence the major states, it's just to buy them time. Doesn't make a difference since their original orders are to kill them anyways).

Zero
States firmly that their operation is to rescue the JLF. However, that is simply a ruse and Lelouch kills them to provide him an opening to spearhead straight into Cornelia.

Diethard however sees through this ruse and enjoy seeing Lelouch axing useless people to weaken the enemy. Calling him chaos and wants to see more of Lelouch's radical actions. Suzuka also realizes this as well and this is what angers him. Though Suzuka should be thanking him since he saved him the trouble of having to kill them (however, to Suzuka the JLF are his enemies, to Zero the JLF are people who want to join him so who is the murderer here?).

You ask me? Lelouch is becoming more like his father. Similar to Narita, he's casting off the weak in combat. Those who survive are the stronger ones and would be the warriors.

Suzuka? As someone has pointed out it's similar to Archer/Shiro from Fate/Stay night who realized that in order to save lives, you have to kill lives. This is what Suzuka has to acknowledge to himself. Lelouch already has since he himself realized that he must use whatever means necessary in order to win and Suzuka is going to have to do the same thing if he wishes to achieve his dream. Their heading towards the same goal but through different paths. Suzuka is still on a bumpy road but he should realize that he's just about the same as Zero (sooner or later he's going to have to kill more and more).

CC to Lelouch is the same as what Lloyd/Cecile is to Suzuka. Those people are the whip that brings them back to reality. "You want your dream to come true? Then you have to accept this....."

[blitz1/2]

It seems the next episode is called Geass vs. Geass? Looking forward to it. The battle should have been longer in this episode though.

[etothex]

I like how Suzaku started mouthing off about Zero at Shirley's father's funeral. W-T-F is wrong with him?

Diethard was a riot.

LL x CC +1 point
LL x Shirley -2 points
Zero/LL x Kallen +2 points.
Notice how he actually has meaningful discussions with CC and Kallen, as opposed to with Shirley.

With Kallen engaging the Lancelot, that leaves Cornelia free to finish off Zero, something she would enjoy immensely. Where is she? Instead we have Shirley. Bah!

Who's going to save Zero? Diethard or CC or Geass or Cheese-kun; I eagerly await ep 14.

[Dagger]

Originally Posted by etothex

Who's going to save Zero? Diethard or CC or Geass or Cheese-kun; I eagerly await ep 14.

They should form a sentai team. The Pizza Rangers, perhaps?

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by ImperialKnight

ANd I don't understand why people defend Lelouch killing those JLF and then LIE to his own people (Actually given the situation I don't blame him but it's ridiculous on how people defend Lelouch on other grounds)
EDIT: Removed potential flame bait, don't want to bring politics into this.

Quite simple. Lelouch knows he's a bastard. While he may lie to the rest of the world, he doesn't lie to himself about it. In fact, he doesn't even lie to CC. And being a bastard hurts him. It's not exactly remorse - he's still convinced his path is the right one for him - but it doesn't come without a cost either.

Suzaku? That order of massacring surrendered enemies that seemingly gave him troubles for all of five seconds, but then he still pretends he's somehow better than the other murderers out there. And it's not even the worst of the atrocities the Britanian army routinely commits, not by a long shot. Suzaku choose to be part of it - it's way too late to pretend his hands are unstained.

[seraphon]

Originally Posted by ImperialKnight

ANd I don't understand why people defend Lelouch killing those JLF and then LIE to his own people (Actually given the situation I don't blame him but it's ridiculous on how people defend Lelouch on other grounds)
EDIT: Removed potential flame bait, don't want to bring politics into this.

I don't get it, what's wrong with killing enemy combatants? I don't recall the JLF surrendering at all. If they were intent on killing them those Goohns would've just torpedoed the ship, not hijack it to capture the general. Lancelot and the others simply cleared the path for them to get up there, standard military operation. You don't just waltz right in without taking out the guards.

You missed something here....
Most of us suzaku haters arent lulu lovers...... we do think lulu is/can be a bastard but the fact is that it is a deliberate act from lulu. The problem is what suzaku dares say. I d like to quote our dear loyd "You are not going to spout some embarrassing theorie on justice arent you?"
Suzaku, since the begining of the anime, never stopped to claim his love of justice and ideal of no useless deaths. So from his point of view its not rigth to kill enemy combatants that surrender or are in no condition to figth anymore. Like he says in ep13 "This is no battle" (thougth he do nothing, wich is not really heroic is it?). I cant help thinking when I hear suzaku speak, that suzaku think of himself as some hero with a great sense of justice and I cant accept that coz he s no hero whatever way you see it.

Just so you know I m not blaming the britanians of crushing their enemies (thats what I expect from a professionnel armie that lessen risks the most possible, even more if the said armie is a known armie of the super vilain), nor do I blame zero for manipulating and lying (What I expect of any good anti-hero, rebel, terrorrist). I m just blaming suzaku for spouting embarrassing therie on justice.....

[c^2]

Originally Posted by evil|plushie

Im starting to believe Suzaku is a parody of a normal super robot hero, the type that believes in Justice , has red hot burning passion, pilots a super robot mech, and whose type totally doesnt belong in Code Geass...

That is an amusing way to look at it. Perhaps it will be easier to watch now with that in mind.

Originally Posted by ImperialKnight

ANd I don't understand why people defend Lelouch killing those JLF and then LIE to his own people (Actually given the situation I don't blame him but it's ridiculous on how people defend Lelouch on other grounds)
EDIT: Removed potential flame bait, don't want to bring politics into this.

What Lulu is doing is certainly not nice, but he is also not spouting nonsense about justice left and right. He is doing anything and everything necessary to achieve victory, and he is well aware that the consequences are not pretty. His actions (including lying) are standard fare for military operations though, and everyone there has voluntarily put their life on the life to further the cause. He has not once intentionally endangered civilian lives. This last point is probably why most people still have respect for him. If he kills Shirley just to silence her though, I doubt that will continue.

I don't get it, what's wrong with killing enemy combatants? I don't recall the JLF surrendering at all. If they were intent on killing them those Goohns would've just torpedoed the ship, not hijack it to capture the general. Lancelot and the others simply cleared the path for them to get up there, standard military operation. You don't just waltz right in without taking out the guards.

Well, they were surrendered enemy combatants. They attempted to surrender, and it was ignored. As far as Lulu killing the people on the ship, they would have been dead anyways. Even given advanced warning, their situation was still hopeless.

Originally Posted by etothex

I like how Suzaku started mouthing off about Zero at Shirley's father's funeral. W-T-F is wrong with him?

Really, what an ass! I was beginning to think that I was alone in thinking that...

Diethard was a riot.

He seems like a nut after this episode. It feels as if he places the story above peoples lives, and I would be quite afraid of depending on him.

[Noppapana]

to seraphon:
soo you may say god bless there is a chara like Lloyd

[Ashlotte]

Ok enough is enough with the pizza hut crap. We had this really emotional scene at the start and half way through it they cut to...CC and a nice big fat shot of a pizza hut box... For that alone I shaved off a point from a otherwise excellent episode.

Other then that suzuka continues to be a punk lol. I didnt mind him so much at the start but as time goes by...

And im not a lulu lover in the sense that I agree with what he does, but hes atleast entertaining to watch.

[Noppapana]

i am not sure if anyone find it
but this is kinda funny

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by Noppapana

i am not sure if anyone find it
but this is kinda funny

LOL i noticed that too after rewatching XD and yep listening to it time and time again he does indeed say "bastard" XD but suzaku is too thick to get mad lolz :3

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

LOL i noticed that too after rewatching XD and yep listening to it time and time again he does indeed say "bastard" XD but suzaku is too thick to get mad lolz :3

Well he does techincally get mad

And besides, not much he can do about it, Darlton is a superior officer so striking or talking back is out of the option.

[Majek]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

LOL i noticed that too after rewatching XD and yep listening to it time and time again he does indeed say "bastard" XD but suzaku is too thick to get mad lolz :3

Yeah when you get instulted the best reaction is to get mad. Real slick. *thumbs up*

[coldwarm]

Lol, not a good idea to provode suzaku. Once he defects, it is over!

[Onizuka-GTO]

Originally Posted by Skyfall

So, Shirley now knows Lulu is Zero... well, there is no argument that she won't shoot him...the question is - what will become of Shirley? Maybe Lulu will use Geass and make her forget about it, or he will...dispose of her. Tho i doubt Lulu is going to kill Shirley in his present state of mind. Or some sort of accident might happen to her, considering they are on a battle field.

bloody hell.

How many time must i say this?

Shirley DOES NOT KNOW

if you look closely at the end of the episode, Lulu is still wearing his Ninja mask, under his helmet.

Now unless you are an expert and can recognise people when they got their lower face covered in a ninja mask, congratulations.

But i doubt Shirley can.

So if Lulu is smart, he can still talk his way and buy him some time, for options out, without using his geass. I mean he knows he can't just go round Geass, because its a one off thing, unless he consider this encounter to be the only one, he might consider other options, as he might need to geass later on when it is really needed.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO

bloody hell.

How many time must i say this?

Shirley DOES NOT KNOW

if you look closely at the end of the episode, Lulu is still wearing his Ninja mask, under his helmet.

Now unless you are an expert and can recognise people when they got their lower face covered in a ninja mask, congratulations.

But what if shirely IS an expert in that?

So if Lulu is smart, he can still talk his way and buy him some time, for options out, without using his geass. I mean he knows he can't just go round Geass, because its a one off thing, unless he consider this encounter to be the only one, he might consider other options, as he might need to geass later on when it is really needed.

That's where Mao comes in. He is heading towards the battlefield right?

[SinsI]

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

LOL i noticed that too after rewatching XD and yep listening to it time and time again he does indeed say "bastard" XD but suzaku is too thick to get mad lolz :3

don't trust translations that much. It's not "bastard", it's "you". Interesting that wiki says it's "historically very formal, now extremely hostile and rude" - we have an alternate history here, so it can be used in the first sense too.

[Onizuka-GTO]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

But what if shirely IS an expert in that?

cuuuurse yooou for making me actually reconsider that! >_<


*shirley's family is actually Ninja Historians*


NoOoooOOoo!