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Blade_Lord · 2008-06-25, 02:36

No offence but Iamandragon's explanation practically fall apart if the Fuyuki link is true. Why is so? If unleashing excallibur is 700-800 and using UBW is around 270, archer won't disappear immediately as she claimed.He still has around 130 to 230 prana.

Also they discussed how there is strong possibility that avalon was never removed from archer's body.Which Iamandragon claimed that avalon is removed from archer's body a long time ago.

What I don't understand is how come archer's arm(the one that attached to shirou) didn't disappear after he died in Heaven's feel.

iamandragon · 2008-06-25, 04:56

Well you just have to choose which one you think is true: Fuyuki, me, or your own theory...

The reason a servant disappear when they don't have enough mana to maintain their materialization--Archer's arm alone probably got mana when it's attached to Shirou?

sainclaire · 2008-06-26, 23:11

Just finished the Fate route for the first time. Such an excellent story; much more fufilling than the anime I might add.

One question, It wasnt completely clear to me how Kiritsugu died. Somehow he was cursed by the holy grail?

iamandragon · 2008-06-27, 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by sainclaire

Just finished the Fate route for the first time. Such an excellent story; much more fufilling than the anime I might add.

One question, It wasnt completely clear to me how Kiritsugu died. Somehow he was cursed by the holy grail?

Not cursed--he saw what was inside the grail and made an attempt to destroy it, and failed, only to have the contents of the grail pour onto him.

In some sense he is cursed, but the definition of a curse in F/SN is different from everyday curse we talk about.

sainclaire · 2008-06-27, 12:58

So the contents of the grail somehow shortened his life? Was his death directly a result of the holy grail's contents?

kaizer63 · 2008-06-27, 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by sainclaire

So the contents of the grail somehow shortened his life? Was his death directly a result of the holy grail's contents?

Pretty much. What the grail did was make him hear those voices of suffering asking for death and vengeance for five years straight. I assume it took the will to live out of him so when Shirou agreed to take on his ideal for him, he no longer had a reason to live on and let himself die.

Fuuma · 2008-06-29, 07:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaizer63

Pretty much. What the grail did was make him hear those voices of suffering asking for death and vengeance for five years straight. I assume it took the will to live out of him so when Shirou agreed to take on his ideal for him, he no longer had a reason to live on and let himself die.

Didnt Shirou also heard those voices?

[EDIT]

Oh, nevermind they were alive when Shirou found them in the secret chamber in church.
I thought they were dead and Shirou was able to hear theyr voices.... >.<

kaizer63 · 2008-06-29, 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuuma

Didnt Shirou also heard those voices?

[EDIT]

Oh, nevermind they were alive when Shirou found them in the secret chamber in church.
I thought they were dead and Shirou was able to hear theyr voices.... >.<

You're thinking of the wrong voices, but Shirou did hear them as well when he was fighting Kirie in the fate route and continued to hear them until he traced Avalon at which point all the muck was forced from his body.

Fuuma · 2008-07-03, 11:26

In episode 12 when Rider died, you saw Sakura infront of a window and she sayd something, I believe this is Heaven's Feel part?
So, what did she say?

Blade_Lord · 2008-07-05, 22:05

I want to ask about Gilgamesh's Ea. What is the reason that make this Ea powerful? I never heard of Ea nor have I heard of Uruk before so I doubt its powerful because it is well known. Is it because it is not from this world or is it because it is one of the oldest noble phantasm that existed?

rastilin · 2008-07-05, 23:27

The people of it's time would have all known about it and there's plenty of people who still know the legend. Although there's no legend that says Gilgamesh himself ever got his hands on Ea; so there is creative license. There's a couple of other reasons, for one thing the weapon itself is pretty old, for another it's made of the divine and not from mortal materials. It's implied to be different than Excalibur in that way, since Ex has a form within mortal comprehension.

Actually Ea is the wrong name for it. Because Ea was a god of fresh water in Babylon. The name "Enuma Elish" translates into "Epic of Creation" and is the name of an ancient story. So, they took a lot of creative license. Needless to say, the word "Giglamesh" doesn't come up at ANY point in said story.

Blade_Lord · 2008-07-06, 04:30

And the reason gilgamesh got his hand on it is because of Gate of Babylon huh?

Village Idiot · 2008-07-06, 09:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by rastilin

The people of it's time would have all known about it and there's plenty of people who still know the legend. Although there's no legend that says Gilgamesh himself ever got his hands on Ea; so there is creative license. There's a couple of other reasons, for one thing the weapon itself is pretty old, for another it's made of the divine and not from mortal materials. It's implied to be different than Excalibur in that way, since Ex has a form within mortal comprehension.

Actually Ea is the wrong name for it. Because Ea was a god of fresh water in Babylon. The name "Enuma Elish" translates into "Epic of Creation" and is the name of an ancient story. So, they took a lot of creative license. Needless to say, the word "Giglamesh" doesn't come up at ANY point in said story.

Gilgamesh himself doesn't even know the actual name of the sword, its just the name that he gave it.

Blade_Lord · 2008-07-06, 10:03

But why Ea? Surely there must be a reason behind it?

fallin up · 2008-07-06, 23:27

why is saber considered an incomplete servant?

rastilin · 2008-07-06, 23:51

The servants are heroes who have already died, but Saber is still alive in her own time. She made a pact with Akasha to get the grail before dying, however since she was inches from death at the time, the only thing Akasha could do was preserve her life and send her spirit into the grail war.

EMIYA · 2008-07-07, 19:11

@Blade Lord: Well, quite frankly, it's just that. There is no reason for it. Gilgamesh called the sword 'Ea' because it just doesn't have a name. Simple. :P

sainclaire · 2008-07-09, 13:03

The name Ea might have come from the name of one of the gods from the tale of Gilgamesh in which he tries to attain eternal life. I remember reading this story a couple years back in 10th grade; not entirely sure but I think Ea was one of the creating gods which would explain why Gilgamesh said that his sword created/destroyed worlds in the visual novel.

OceanBlue · 2008-07-09, 20:14

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enki

He's also called "Ea", apparently. Not sure if it's related at all.

Alaya · 2008-07-12, 12:52

Gil chooses the word Ea because he likes it.

But I think Nasu choose the words Ea because of this reason:

"he crisis is finally ended by Ea, the god of wisdom. Ea visits the place of the ancient primeval gods, gets from their storehouse a copper cutting instrument "which was used to separate the earth and the sky", and,using it, cuts Ullikummi from Ubelluri's shoulders."

- Taken from http://rbedrosian.com/Memyth.htm under topic of Kummiya/Qumme. Credit to Aldeayeah of Beast's Lair.

2008-06-25, 02:36	Link #2041
Blade_Lord Lord of Blades Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: in Unlimited Blade Works Age: 32	No offence but Iamandragon's explanation practically fall apart if the Fuyuki link is true. Why is so? If unleashing excallibur is 700-800 and using UBW is around 270, archer won't disappear immediately as she claimed.He still has around 130 to 230 prana. Also they discussed how there is strong possibility that avalon was never removed from archer's body.Which Iamandragon claimed that avalon is removed from archer's body a long time ago. What I don't understand is how come archer's arm(the one that attached to shirou) didn't disappear after he died in Heaven's feel. __________________ Emiya Shirou,the Counter Guardian. Last edited by Blade_Lord; 2008-06-25 at 02:49.

2008-07-05, 22:05	Link #2050
Blade_Lord Lord of Blades Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: in Unlimited Blade Works Age: 32	I want to ask about Gilgamesh's Ea. What is the reason that make this Ea powerful? I never heard of Ea nor have I heard of Uruk before so I doubt its powerful because it is well known. Is it because it is not from this world or is it because it is one of the oldest noble phantasm that existed? __________________ Emiya Shirou,the Counter Guardian.

2008-07-06, 04:30	Link #2052
Blade_Lord Lord of Blades Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: in Unlimited Blade Works Age: 32	And the reason gilgamesh got his hand on it is because of Gate of Babylon huh? __________________ Emiya Shirou,the Counter Guardian.

2008-07-06, 10:03	Link #2054
Blade_Lord Lord of Blades Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: in Unlimited Blade Works Age: 32	But why Ea? Surely there must be a reason behind it? __________________ Emiya Shirou,the Counter Guardian.

2008-07-12, 12:52	Link #2060
Alaya Counter Force Join Date: Nov 2007	Gil chooses the word Ea because he likes it. But I think Nasu choose the words Ea because of this reason: "he crisis is finally ended by Ea, the god of wisdom. Ea visits the place of the ancient primeval gods, gets from their storehouse a copper cutting instrument "which was used to separate the earth and the sky", and,using it, cuts Ullikummi from Ubelluri's shoulders." - Taken from http://rbedrosian.com/Memyth.htm under topic of Kummiya/Qumme. Credit to Aldeayeah of Beast's Lair. __________________ Fate/Zero: This was the tale of a man who, more than anyone else, believed in his ideals, and was driven to despair by them. Madoka: This was the tale of magical girls whose wishes are pure and by them are driven to despair.

2008-06-25, 04:56	Link #2042
iamandragon Martian diplomat Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Mars	Well you just have to choose which one you think is true: Fuyuki, me, or your own theory... The reason a servant disappear when they don't have enough mana to maintain their materialization--Archer's arm alone probably got mana when it's attached to Shirou?

2008-06-26, 23:11	Link #2043
sainclaire This space for rent. Join Date: Mar 2008	Just finished the Fate route for the first time. Such an excellent story; much more fufilling than the anime I might add. One question, It wasnt completely clear to me how Kiritsugu died. Somehow he was cursed by the holy grail?

2008-06-27, 12:58	Link #2045
sainclaire This space for rent. Join Date: Mar 2008	So the contents of the grail somehow shortened his life? Was his death directly a result of the holy grail's contents?

2008-07-03, 11:26	Link #2049
Fuuma Member Join Date: Oct 2007	In episode 12 when Rider died, you saw Sakura infront of a window and she sayd something, I believe this is Heaven's Feel part? So, what did she say?

2008-07-05, 23:27	Link #2051
rastilin Senior Member Join Date: May 2008	The people of it's time would have all known about it and there's plenty of people who still know the legend. Although there's no legend that says Gilgamesh himself ever got his hands on Ea; so there is creative license. There's a couple of other reasons, for one thing the weapon itself is pretty old, for another it's made of the divine and not from mortal materials. It's implied to be different than Excalibur in that way, since Ex has a form within mortal comprehension. Actually Ea is the wrong name for it. Because Ea was a god of fresh water in Babylon. The name "Enuma Elish" translates into "Epic of Creation" and is the name of an ancient story. So, they took a lot of creative license. Needless to say, the word "Giglamesh" doesn't come up at ANY point in said story.

2008-07-06, 23:27	Link #2055
fallin up my life is a harem Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: around Age: 33	why is saber considered an incomplete servant?

2008-07-06, 23:51	Link #2056
rastilin Senior Member Join Date: May 2008	The servants are heroes who have already died, but Saber is still alive in her own time. She made a pact with Akasha to get the grail before dying, however since she was inches from death at the time, the only thing Akasha could do was preserve her life and send her spirit into the grail war.

2008-07-07, 19:11	Link #2057
EMIYA Servant Archer Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Fuyuki City Age: 31	@Blade Lord: Well, quite frankly, it's just that. There is no reason for it. Gilgamesh called the sword 'Ea' because it just doesn't have a name. Simple. :P

2008-07-09, 13:03	Link #2058
sainclaire This space for rent. Join Date: Mar 2008	The name Ea might have come from the name of one of the gods from the tale of Gilgamesh in which he tries to attain eternal life. I remember reading this story a couple years back in 10th grade; not entirely sure but I think Ea was one of the creating gods which would explain why Gilgamesh said that his sword created/destroyed worlds in the visual novel.

2008-07-09, 20:14	Link #2059
OceanBlue Not an expert on things Join Date: Jun 2007	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enki He's also called "Ea", apparently. Not sure if it's related at all.