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D-KLAC · 2008-04-24, 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

Spam (and trolling and flamebait) happened wherein monir had to cut back 32 posts on one thread because....well, it got really out of hand, because it suddenly became a flamewar fest, and it has become so much so that nothing was happening except piling on flames for either side of the UC and CE war. Oddities every now and then....like sudden posts which some people may attribute to Kira by comparing him with so and so character, is considered normal, and good if used sparingly. If the posts get to more than what could be taken as normal - like just on discussing about Lelouch's hairstyle as reminiscent of Kira which suddenly jumps from that point to that of how the Geass episode so and so should've been like that for the last 100 pages (well, I'm exaggerating at this point but I guess you get the drift) - then that's spam/trolling/flamebait or whatever else. Geass hijack complete.

Anyway, the Geass spam has been doused with talks about the GS movie/GS 3rd series every now and then. Not that they've been talking nonstop Geass for the last 100 pages or so (again, I'm exaggerating). Unless there's no real movie, 3rd series yet to appear, randomness like this would happen every now and then.

well if you want ideas about GS well then maybe it would be better if GS fans really gives ideas for other GS project besides i've read some fanfic of GS & i'm thinking maybe GS fans should rally or something to get another GS showing besides i'm more interesting in a GS prequal chapter to events before GS to really explain like how did kira & cagalli get to be with their adpotive parents, history of the la flaga, mu rau battles, etc before the events of ep.1 of GS cause this really something still not yet explain.

hero147 · 2008-04-25, 19:24

Gundam Seed trilogy would be nice. The reason why Gundam seed itself did great was because of its simplistic plots, nothing to the lines of so and so caused the war, it was Naturals vs coordinators straight up. I would enjoy a trilogy. Liked Seed more than 00 as a Gundam series for several reasons...

Sir Dearka · 2008-04-26, 04:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by hero147

Gundam Seed trilogy would be nice. The reason why Gundam seed itself did great was because of its simplistic plots, nothing to the lines of so and so caused the war, it was Naturals vs coordinators straight up. I would enjoy a trilogy. Liked Seed more than 00 as a Gundam series for several reasons...

Well, to think of it, Gundam SEED was not that simple when it came to plot. It was just one of the least realistic series in Gundam franchise (if not THE least realistic, at least in terms of more "sugar" kawaii character designs and mecha capabilities; but everything could be forgiven after Kamille's "invincible shield at the end of Zeta, I guess

). There were numerous themes: genetic experiments (many shades of it), human intollerance ("racist" blue cosmos), terrorism (pretty much appearing in every Gundam series, but focused on in 00), military ideology (another theme that practically always appears in G-franchise), love (now that's one of the things SEED focused on), psychology of psychochicks (

Four Murasame or even Destiny's Stellar do not even compare to almighty queen of psychos - Fllay Alster, IMO), politics vs. ideology (Orb and Attha family) and friendship (that's my favorite theme in CE. The beautifully carried out Kira and Athrun love/hate relationship is the main factor that brought tears to my eyes and keeps me convinced that SEED is a great series). Maybe one could find these things in other Gundam series. But if they do, they should not say that SEED is simpler than them, I think.

Eidolon Sniper · 2008-04-26, 08:32

^^^ I think you just about tackled EVERYTHING that Gundam had to offer, and frankly, it's not new.

- Kamille got brain fried by Scirocco.
- The cyber NTs would like to have a word with you.
- Zeon, Neo Zeon, etc., etc.
- That's what basically every evil army/group of people did with every Gundam.
- *coughKATEJINAcough*
- Relena would also like to have a word with you.
- I guess Heero and Duo don't count eh (for the lulz I guess)? And probably others from other series.

SEED borrowed from all of the themes recurrent in Gundam, but it simply became a love hate relationship between Naturals and Coordinators in both series. Whatever "depth" that the Blue Cosmos/LOGOS/random EA grunt had was simply ONLY based on inherent hatred for the entire Coordinator race - something which was shown in both series. What Dullindal did in Destiny is not about of the same caliber that the EA did - hooray for trying to make Coordinators some of the bad guys as well - but it felt like it was just placed there as an afterthought, so that Kira and company would have somebody "evil" to fight against with. Whatever relationship that happened were also thrown out in favor of the Kira and Lacus "relationship". I am not a really great fan of Athrun and Cagalli, but I am sad and angry at what happened to their relationship, and to their characters as well. Cagalli's inability to lead in the beginning episodes of the series...what happened to kickass Cagalli we had at the end of SEED? Like she already knew better, but instead she ends up being bullied by the Seirans into ordering Orb to side with the EA? Athrun also turned out as soft as Cagalli as well. The entire war felt like it was always the same...the hatred between Naturals and Coordinators, with a rather foolish attempt for Dullindal going against the system in the PLANTs to say that "the war in Destiny isn't the same as in SEED". It had always been the same "what are they fighting for" stance like in SEED. Heck, it is STILL the same TSA in Destiny.

Attempts to make the plot deep and filled with idealism and ideologies about peace and war...and who they think are enemies...it only simply boiled down to the point that what TSA thinks is evil must be stopped and are therefore by default the good guys, and those opposing TSA are bad. The writing was all over the place, and while it was quite decent for SEED, it spiralled to what it was in Destiny. It's basically SEED 2.0 all over again, I mean, Kira gets the lead again. The new cast was an entire waste, whatever character development got thrown out of the window, and what could've made it more interesting - if it were Shinn really pitted against Kira without shifting the attention to Kira again - was basically abandoned. Athrun's mentor role to Shinn was also forgotten. Athrun going against Kira through Shinn or whatever could've made more sense rather than them being together in a single team that would definitely kill any effort of having a more "respectable" villain that could outmaneuver them. Seriously, any attempt by Fukuda by a new cast to introduce in the movie should stay being the main characters...there really is no point by getting all 3 aces together, the story's basically finished with that. With Kira and Shinn with Lacus and Athrun with Cagalli, what point would be left to argue with them?

Sir Dearka · 2008-04-26, 10:41

Frankly, what you said there is nothing new either. To me, SEED is the sole representation of everything I liked about Gundam series, with a touch of original chara design and teen soap approach. The themes and motiffs I mentioned, plus the greatest friendship in anime history IMO. I am a bit sorry that the whole dramatism was a bit spoiled by the clumsy story in Destiny. But nevertheless it does not change the fact that I think the first SEED series is not just decent. It is just awesome.

Eidolon Sniper · 2008-04-26, 13:05

Spoiler for Sir Dearka:

Teenage best friends forever friendship? It's been tackled a LOT of times in different kinds of anime, not just Gundam. Original character design? Well, it certainly catered to a lot of people who loved the fresh animation design, but rather became a cut and paste tragedy (associating it with what happened to Destiny of course) whenever a new show that sports that artwork and gets "hated" because of it. If this was probably drawn by Yun Kouga right now I wonder what would happen, lol.

or Akira Toriyama for that matter (however, Akira Toriyama also kinda suffers from Hirai-ism as well in some way). I haven't actually been weaned on UC that much, having only watched Zeta, and I admit that Wing was pretty much my first Gundam, but frankly I liked the old designs better than SEED and Destiny. >.<;; Anyway, it's all a matter of taste.

Teen drama in my Gundam? @.@;; wait, what does that make Kamille and his angst? He was ansgty at all people he became connected to in Zeta,

Spoiler:

but it never got to the point wherein the story became too melodramatic and seemed to feed on Kamille's helplessness and angst and whatever else.

In SEED, it was as if everybody had issues...well, of course they do, but then the writing sometimes focused too much on their issues - loss of family, loss of friends, etc., etc. - that whatever the reason the war was about was simply focused on the issue that the Naturals hated the Coordinators and vice versa. It simply became "character A became angsty because of so and so" and this was reflected a lot on what happened to most of the major characters - that they lost someone dear in some way, and being angsty was the only way to go for some of them. This also served as their backup plan to explain why "character B evolved and matured". The war was sort of neglected. Of course, wars in Gundam also started on hatred, but we then have memorable madmen and madwomen in them and stories that attempted to focus on all aspects of the war in some way, not just focusing primarily on the issues that the major characters have too much. They kinda struck some balance to them.

When was there a serious focus on EA? From the get go, the EA were shown to be heartless madmen bent on Coordinator destruction. Everything they did represented all evil in the CE universe, and sadly, the EA people who could've made a great difference were all killed off. The Coordinators were shown to be naturally good people, who deserve all the fans' sympathy, and that their suffering and anger at the Naturals also had a reason. The Naturals didn't even get to be fleshed out as to why they hate Coordinators...it was just like obsessed rage because Coordinators were better. They just got RAGED at Coordinators, and Azrael's flashback was the closest one which fleshed out the reason why he hates Coordinators that much. The problem of this hatred was not tackled at the end of SEED and was not also tackled at the end of Destiny.

The war was just stopped with force. The talks at the end of the Destiny SEs could bring hope, but to what end? The possible scenario that could happen is that they would officiate a peace talk with the EA and force them to surrender their hostile stance against the PLANTs and Orb and would use that as a reminder to anyone who would wish to go against their way. Surrender meaning getting reined in by either Lacus or Cagalli and maintain a police watch on the entire Earth and PLANT sphere, with Terminal and Factory and Orb military technology helping with it all the way. Where's the balance or awesome with that?

Sir Dearka · 2008-04-26, 17:57

I think that your judgement of SEED is a bit too harsh, to say the least. There were some great character developments in the series (starting from various stages of Fllay's psychosis and ending on Kira's dilemmas about killing others and learning about the tragedy of war; Also, my favorite character of the show, Dearka, got his 5 minutes there as well; he started off as an arrogant kid and ended up being one of the most understanding and reasonable persons of the show). What made me like the series was not its originality (as the era of numerous pioneers is really the matter of the past, IMO), but the way all the elements were tied and bound together. I never say that GS was the very first anime to use the friendship-go-opposite tragedy theme. It's just that I think it's one of the series that carried such motiff in the best possible way.

And there's my perception of awesomeness in that. Plus - cool visuals in relation to other Gundam shows and cool mecha designs. And great music. From ballads to upbeat. J-rock and classic-sounding symphonies. Everything was there.

And if we are already comparing SEED to Zeta, the two shows are essentially different, targetted at differend kinds of audience/tastes/generations, I think. The sugar-big-starry eyed designs are quite popular nowadays, so yeah, it is a matter of taste. Though I am the kind of person that'd love all Zeta, Gundam 00 and SEED for many reasons. Even the shows I perceive as not that good like Wing or Turn A had many aspects I liked. Because they were Gundams (Setsuna'd love me for those wrods

). And the quality and effort put in them were at least as plentiful as in the case of my favorites.

I never liked spoiling the fun of others by saying that some show was totally outrageous, thrashing it all the time just for the sake of it, especially when I knew that the other side thinks otherwise. Maybe it's because of my flexibility of taste. Maybe I just want to be fair, so I won't do to others what I'd not want others to do to me. But I'm open for further discussion, though I think that there isn't much to discuss on the matter between Eidolon Sniper and me. She doesn't like CE and thinks it is already a "lost universe" in her eyes (at least that's what I am assuming by relating to her posts). I think otherwise. Reasons given. Both sides remain with their stances, it seems.

Dean_the_Young · 2008-04-26, 18:47

Seed has its flaws (I don't think many deny it, and for some those flaws are enjoyment-ruining), but character progression wasn't one of them. You might not like where and how the characters developed, and personally I think some of the drama was more annoying than interesting (the entire Princess Clyne phenomenum which developed straight through Seed into Destiny), but the majority of the characters do progress, and with a fair amount of personality-exposure. That some don't get as much as the others is a simple fact that the two main characters were Kira and Athrun.

Eidolon Sniper · 2008-04-27, 07:59

Spoiler for Sir Dearka:

If my posts seem to insinuate that I am fanatically anti CE...frankly, you probably miss the entire point of the post. If it were, why would I even bother trying to write down in here all the things I think would not contribute towards a good 3rd series or movie? I had loved the show for some aspects, and I guess by my avatar and signature it would show that I am a fan of the "deranged" Fllay Allster, and so as you have actually said that you loved SEED, 00 and Zeta in some points, in some points I also loved SEED as well, like Kira Yamato before he got Freedom and Fllay Allster. Why, I was overcome with emotion when Kira and Athrun had that emotional fight wherein Kira got KIA/MIA and Athrun getting manhandled by Cagalli for it afterwards. I loved how the choreography was done in the Desert Arc...suddenly it became the pilot against the entire horde of Coordinator machines that were suddenly phased off in the latter parts of SEED (that "pilot makes the machine" bit).

My anti CE cries were not exactly anti CE to the extremest sense; as I have explicitly stated in some of my posts again and again, I still have hope for the CE franchise if it would come to the movie, but the Destiny SEs have made it pretty slim, and you cannot deny that. I didn't care much for the character designs, sorry, or for the plotholes in some parts of the story itself, but yes, the CE did have its good points, but as I also said, it's all a matter of taste. And I'm also trying to be as every bit of being open minded and fair about it myself...an anti CE person, a fanatic one or simply overzealous one at that, wouldn't even try posting sane posts or even posts that make sense in a thread filled with CE love...for that you might want to have a go at /m/ and they do not take too nicely to CE loving people over there, however innocent it may seem to you. They will probably gang up on you or something, unlike here in animesuki, where a lot of saner and fairer-minded people abound.

I dislike CE, but not to the extent you seem to be "assuming" Sir Dearka. I still like it for some reasons I mentioned, and dislike some aspects of it myself. I was just explaining my reasons why I think SEED did not probably fit my bill of what's good or whatever it is. Saying that a person likes a story is just "good" or "deep" or he likes certain art styles could pretty much be explainable in their own way, for not all people have the same tastes and reasons for liking them so, or they have no reason to explain to people why they like them. But there are people who would like to know something about them sometimes, in an effort to understand why they like it so much. It's not as if anti CE people just want to bash them or anything, but some "anti CE" people are actually curious as to why it seems so. I would like to think that I am that type of fan. I mean, I get with why a lot of people seemingly get murderous vibes when it comes to Fllay Allster, laughing or even actually happy that she died, and found most of their reasons quite

at the most (the "I hate Fllay because she slept with Kira" and all its other mutations mantra bit) and still made an effort to try understand them. Of course, you wouldn't just like it too if a person disses Dearka just for getting Miriallia, that Miriallia and Tolle deserve to be together, or that they hate Dearka for just being an afterthought so that Buster kits would sell well. You want to demand an explanation why, or ask them why, and you would probably get a lot of

reasons that would probably make you want to pull out all your hair in exasperation because they just don't make enough sense at all.

I never even said that you're saying that SEED was the first to employ all those techniques. Frankly, it's not just Fllay who went psycho or Kira who had to live all through the dilemmas of having to kill someone in a war in the entire Gundam universe, there had been other examples of them to great effect. You got rather sad that Dearka only had 5 minutes of fame, I got kinda sad when Jerrid Mesa always seem to kill all the women he meets and thrash really good MS and getting defeated; I mean, there seems to be something deeper to it than being Zeta's "running gag" of the series. I have always loved mechas ever since I got acquainted myself with Evangelion a long time ago, and probably it is also one of the reasons why I kinda loved CE mechas to an extent, until I saw what they did with the Double X.

In any case, you have already defined yourself to the reasons why you like SEED, and I think I have also stated my own reasons why I dislike SEED, but then again this is not the thread for that, it has another thread dedicated to it (but mostly GSD that is).

I don't like CE because I didn't like the story and a whole lot of other things; this automatically makes me think that CE is a "lost universe" cause?

why if that were the case I would take your admiration of SEED posts to be against other new Gundam anime because it would overshadow the SEED you've respected! But of course I know you're a better person than that, and wouldn't go rushing into battle saying why SEED is better than so and so, we have D-KLAC for that.

That's what I've assumed from your posts, that is, on this subject (being very articulate in defending SEED or on any other Gundam related subject for that matter).

Again, I will state that I still have hope left for the CE, no matter how bad it went during Destiny - I actually went throughout the series hoping it would pick up after Kira and company were introduced, going against what I have heard about them in some forums I have scanned before doing so. This could only be probably salvaged by the 3rd series or the movie, and I really hope so too, because I felt quite sad that I was reduced to helpless giggles when I ran through the last eps of Destiny again for no reason at all, and I have had such high hopes for the CE. Hope Morosawa doesn't fail me now. ;_____;

Sir Dearka · 2008-04-27, 10:38

Glad that you do not seem to be one of those radical people and you do see many good aspects of the show. I also have high expectations regarding the next installment (whether it'd be a movie or a series, I do not care, as long as it is good).

I think that enough was said to straighten up our point of views to each other. Of course, I never expected from you to change your mind and suddenly get to like the show. You watched it, you did not like it. And you know why. I watched it. I liked it. And I know why. And I know that you know why you did not like it and why I liked it, so everything is alright. Simple, isn't it?

On a sidenote, I have to say that I'm absolutely comfortable with the way Dearka was treated. That he was one of the five Gundam pilots but had his 5 minutes thanks to the "afterthought" and bad kit sales. That's what makes him not only interesting as a character, but as a marketing object. I think that he could be one good example of how to make a move that'd improve both the story and sales. Also, I am glad that his appearance in Destiny along with Yzak was more of a cameo, than a full role even as a supporting cast, so that the somehow lacking show did not smear his image to me like it did with the characters of Athrun, Cagalli and even Kira.

Eidolon Sniper · 2008-04-28, 08:51

I have always been very vocal of my dislike for SEED, but yes, even bad shows have some of its good points, and it has always been that way.

so yes, surprise surprise, I would like to think I am one of those fans. I did not suddenly like the show, I have always liked the show (le GASP!

) because of Fllay and pre-Freedom Kira, and I do defend Cagalli and Lacus every now and then if the situation calls for it, even if I don't really count myself as a great fan of them.

I also feel quite sad when Dearka did just turn into a "cameo" role in Destiny, I mean, he and Yzak could have been the interesting side to the war, as they now have more important roles than what they had in SEED. But yes, it was probably for the best because of what had happened to the majority of the old characters (most of all, Athrun and Cagalli - why Morosawa WHY??! ;_____; ). If there was an Athrun's Counterattack, I will cry like a little girl if Yzak and Dearka aren't included in there for real major roles.

incube · 2008-05-07, 08:26

So until now there is nothing more than Seed and Destiny right? I mean sequel, ova, movies

Pride · 2008-05-07, 08:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by incube

So until now there is nothing more than Seed and Destiny right? I mean sequel, ova, movies

C.E. 73 Stargazer and Seed after-phase.

incube · 2008-05-07, 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pride

C.E. 73 Stargazer and Seed after-phase.

Stargazer is a 3 episode side story and after phase is a 5 minute epilogue of GS?
That means that there is nothing out there that follows the story of GS & GSD?

4Tran · 2008-05-07, 09:04

That's right. There's a movie that's supposedly in production, but there has been no concrete information on that front for over a year now. There are side stories in the Cosmic Era universe, but if you're looking for more stories about Kira and crew, there probably won't be anything until the movie comes out. (There are also Seed and Seed Destiny mangas, but they're just alternate universe retellings of their respective shows)

incube · 2008-05-07, 09:45

I'll be waiting anxiously for the movie then and woudnt mind a third season =D Wanna see more of Lacus / Kira and Canagli / Arthurn

D-KLAC · 2008-05-10, 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Tran

That's right. There's a movie that's supposedly in production, but there has been no concrete information on that front for over a year now. There are side stories in the Cosmic Era universe, but if you're looking for more stories about Kira and crew, there probably won't be anything until the movie comes out. (There are also Seed and Seed Destiny mangas, but they're just alternate universe retellings of their respective shows)

well really because of morosawa's ill neck that she said wait for GSM

& if still need more GS series right now there mini GS & also soon the english dub of GSD s.e.

4Tran · 2008-05-22, 22:11

Moved Lacus Clyne posts to Lacus Clyne... the Plot Hole Character thread.

Pink_Princess578 · 2008-05-22, 22:37

I really hope that they at the least make a movie! I really love GS and GSD i think it would be awesome to see more and see how the characters continue to develop. I especially would like to see more of Yzak and Dearka! They weren;t in Destiny enough!

duotiga · 2008-05-23, 07:24

seed frame astray new gundam

2008-04-26, 08:32	Link #1384
Eidolon Sniper Tsubasa No Kami Artist Join Date: May 2004 Location: Returning to my Place as the QUEEN...XD	^^^ I think you just about tackled EVERYTHING that Gundam had to offer, and frankly, it's not new. - Kamille got brain fried by Scirocco. - The cyber NTs would like to have a word with you. - Zeon, Neo Zeon, etc., etc. - That's what basically every evil army/group of people did with every Gundam. - coughKATEJINAcough - Relena would also like to have a word with you. - I guess Heero and Duo don't count eh (for the lulz I guess)? And probably others from other series. SEED borrowed from all of the themes recurrent in Gundam, but it simply became a love hate relationship between Naturals and Coordinators in both series. Whatever "depth" that the Blue Cosmos/LOGOS/random EA grunt had was simply ONLY based on inherent hatred for the entire Coordinator race - something which was shown in both series. What Dullindal did in Destiny is not about of the same caliber that the EA did - hooray for trying to make Coordinators some of the bad guys as well - but it felt like it was just placed there as an afterthought, so that Kira and company would have somebody "evil" to fight against with. Whatever relationship that happened were also thrown out in favor of the Kira and Lacus "relationship". I am not a really great fan of Athrun and Cagalli, but I am sad and angry at what happened to their relationship, and to their characters as well. Cagalli's inability to lead in the beginning episodes of the series...what happened to kickass Cagalli we had at the end of SEED? Like she already knew better, but instead she ends up being bullied by the Seirans into ordering Orb to side with the EA? Athrun also turned out as soft as Cagalli as well. The entire war felt like it was always the same...the hatred between Naturals and Coordinators, with a rather foolish attempt for Dullindal going against the system in the PLANTs to say that "the war in Destiny isn't the same as in SEED". It had always been the same "what are they fighting for" stance like in SEED. Heck, it is STILL the same TSA in Destiny. Attempts to make the plot deep and filled with idealism and ideologies about peace and war...and who they think are enemies...it only simply boiled down to the point that what TSA thinks is evil must be stopped and are therefore by default the good guys, and those opposing TSA are bad. The writing was all over the place, and while it was quite decent for SEED, it spiralled to what it was in Destiny. It's basically SEED 2.0 all over again, I mean, Kira gets the lead again. The new cast was an entire waste, whatever character development got thrown out of the window, and what could've made it more interesting - if it were Shinn really pitted against Kira without shifting the attention to Kira again - was basically abandoned. Athrun's mentor role to Shinn was also forgotten. Athrun going against Kira through Shinn or whatever could've made more sense rather than them being together in a single team that would definitely kill any effort of having a more "respectable" villain that could outmaneuver them. Seriously, any attempt by Fukuda by a new cast to introduce in the movie should stay being the main characters...there really is no point by getting all 3 aces together, the story's basically finished with that. With Kira and Shinn with Lacus and Athrun with Cagalli, what point would be left to argue with them? __________________ Ethereal Exiled Queen. NATCH~~~!!!

2008-04-26, 13:05	Link #1386
Eidolon Sniper Tsubasa No Kami Artist Join Date: May 2004 Location: Returning to my Place as the QUEEN...XD	Spoiler for Sir Dearka: Teenage best friends forever friendship? It's been tackled a LOT of times in different kinds of anime, not just Gundam. Original character design? Well, it certainly catered to a lot of people who loved the fresh animation design, but rather became a cut and paste tragedy (associating it with what happened to Destiny of course) whenever a new show that sports that artwork and gets "hated" because of it. If this was probably drawn by Yun Kouga right now I wonder what would happen, lol. or Akira Toriyama for that matter (however, Akira Toriyama also kinda suffers from Hirai-ism as well in some way). I haven't actually been weaned on UC that much, having only watched Zeta, and I admit that Wing was pretty much my first Gundam, but frankly I liked the old designs better than SEED and Destiny. >.<;; Anyway, it's all a matter of taste. Teen drama in my Gundam? @.@;; wait, what does that make Kamille and his angst? He was ansgty at all people he became connected to in Zeta, Spoiler: and heck, his mom got killed right in front of his eyes, but it never got to the point wherein the story became too melodramatic and seemed to feed on Kamille's helplessness and angst and whatever else. In SEED, it was as if everybody had issues...well, of course they do, but then the writing sometimes focused too much on their issues - loss of family, loss of friends, etc., etc. - that whatever the reason the war was about was simply focused on the issue that the Naturals hated the Coordinators and vice versa. It simply became "character A became angsty because of so and so" and this was reflected a lot on what happened to most of the major characters - that they lost someone dear in some way, and being angsty was the only way to go for some of them. This also served as their backup plan to explain why "character B evolved and matured". The war was sort of neglected. Of course, wars in Gundam also started on hatred, but we then have memorable madmen and madwomen in them and stories that attempted to focus on all aspects of the war in some way, not just focusing primarily on the issues that the major characters have too much. They kinda struck some balance to them. When was there a serious focus on EA? From the get go, the EA were shown to be heartless madmen bent on Coordinator destruction. Everything they did represented all evil in the CE universe, and sadly, the EA people who could've made a great difference were all killed off. The Coordinators were shown to be naturally good people, who deserve all the fans' sympathy, and that their suffering and anger at the Naturals also had a reason. The Naturals didn't even get to be fleshed out as to why they hate Coordinators...it was just like obsessed rage because Coordinators were better. They just got RAGED at Coordinators, and Azrael's flashback was the closest one which fleshed out the reason why he hates Coordinators that much. The problem of this hatred was not tackled at the end of SEED and was not also tackled at the end of Destiny. The war was just stopped with force. The talks at the end of the Destiny SEs could bring hope, but to what end? The possible scenario that could happen is that they would officiate a peace talk with the EA and force them to surrender their hostile stance against the PLANTs and Orb and would use that as a reminder to anyone who would wish to go against their way. Surrender meaning getting reined in by either Lacus or Cagalli and maintain a police watch on the entire Earth and PLANT sphere, with Terminal and Factory and Orb military technology helping with it all the way. Where's the balance or awesome with that? __________________ Ethereal Exiled Queen. NATCH~~~!!!

2008-04-26, 17:57	Link #1387
Sir Dearka Inglourious Buster Join Date: Dec 2007	I think that your judgement of SEED is a bit too harsh, to say the least. There were some great character developments in the series (starting from various stages of Fllay's psychosis and ending on Kira's dilemmas about killing others and learning about the tragedy of war; Also, my favorite character of the show, Dearka, got his 5 minutes there as well; he started off as an arrogant kid and ended up being one of the most understanding and reasonable persons of the show). What made me like the series was not its originality (as the era of numerous pioneers is really the matter of the past, IMO), but the way all the elements were tied and bound together. I never say that GS was the very first anime to use the friendship-go-opposite tragedy theme. It's just that I think it's one of the series that carried such motiff in the best possible way. And there's my perception of awesomeness in that. Plus - cool visuals in relation to other Gundam shows and cool mecha designs. And great music. From ballads to upbeat. J-rock and classic-sounding symphonies. Everything was there. And if we are already comparing SEED to Zeta, the two shows are essentially different, targetted at differend kinds of audience/tastes/generations, I think. The sugar-big-starry eyed designs are quite popular nowadays, so yeah, it is a matter of taste. Though I am the kind of person that'd love all Zeta, Gundam 00 and SEED for many reasons. Even the shows I perceive as not that good like Wing or Turn A had many aspects I liked. Because they were Gundams (Setsuna'd love me for those wrods ). And the quality and effort put in them were at least as plentiful as in the case of my favorites. I never liked spoiling the fun of others by saying that some show was totally outrageous, thrashing it all the time just for the sake of it, especially when I knew that the other side thinks otherwise. Maybe it's because of my flexibility of taste. Maybe I just want to be fair, so I won't do to others what I'd not want others to do to me. But I'm open for further discussion, though I think that there isn't much to discuss on the matter between Eidolon Sniper and me. She doesn't like CE and thinks it is already a "lost universe" in her eyes (at least that's what I am assuming by relating to her posts). I think otherwise. Reasons given. Both sides remain with their stances, it seems. Last edited by Sir Dearka; 2008-04-26 at 18:08.

2008-04-27, 07:59	Link #1389
Eidolon Sniper Tsubasa No Kami Artist Join Date: May 2004 Location: Returning to my Place as the QUEEN...XD	Spoiler for Sir Dearka: If my posts seem to insinuate that I am fanatically anti CE...frankly, you probably miss the entire point of the post. If it were, why would I even bother trying to write down in here all the things I think would not contribute towards a good 3rd series or movie? I had loved the show for some aspects, and I guess by my avatar and signature it would show that I am a fan of the "deranged" Fllay Allster, and so as you have actually said that you loved SEED, 00 and Zeta in some points, in some points I also loved SEED as well, like Kira Yamato before he got Freedom and Fllay Allster. Why, I was overcome with emotion when Kira and Athrun had that emotional fight wherein Kira got KIA/MIA and Athrun getting manhandled by Cagalli for it afterwards. I loved how the choreography was done in the Desert Arc...suddenly it became the pilot against the entire horde of Coordinator machines that were suddenly phased off in the latter parts of SEED (that "pilot makes the machine" bit). My anti CE cries were not exactly anti CE to the extremest sense; as I have explicitly stated in some of my posts again and again, I still have hope for the CE franchise if it would come to the movie, but the Destiny SEs have made it pretty slim, and you cannot deny that. I didn't care much for the character designs, sorry, or for the plotholes in some parts of the story itself, but yes, the CE did have its good points, but as I also said, it's all a matter of taste. And I'm also trying to be as every bit of being open minded and fair about it myself...an anti CE person, a fanatic one or simply overzealous one at that, wouldn't even try posting sane posts or even posts that make sense in a thread filled with CE love...for that you might want to have a go at /m/ and they do not take too nicely to CE loving people over there, however innocent it may seem to you. They will probably gang up on you or something, unlike here in animesuki, where a lot of saner and fairer-minded people abound. I dislike CE, but not to the extent you seem to be "assuming" Sir Dearka. I still like it for some reasons I mentioned, and dislike some aspects of it myself. I was just explaining my reasons why I think SEED did not probably fit my bill of what's good or whatever it is. Saying that a person likes a story is just "good" or "deep" or he likes certain art styles could pretty much be explainable in their own way, for not all people have the same tastes and reasons for liking them so, or they have no reason to explain to people why they like them. But there are people who would like to know something about them sometimes, in an effort to understand why they like it so much. It's not as if anti CE people just want to bash them or anything, but some "anti CE" people are actually curious as to why it seems so. I would like to think that I am that type of fan. I mean, I get with why a lot of people seemingly get murderous vibes when it comes to Fllay Allster, laughing or even actually happy that she died, and found most of their reasons quite at the most (the "I hate Fllay because she slept with Kira" and all its other mutations mantra bit) and still made an effort to try understand them. Of course, you wouldn't just like it too if a person disses Dearka just for getting Miriallia, that Miriallia and Tolle deserve to be together, or that they hate Dearka for just being an afterthought so that Buster kits would sell well. You want to demand an explanation why, or ask them why, and you would probably get a lot of reasons that would probably make you want to pull out all your hair in exasperation because they just don't make enough sense at all. I never even said that you're saying that SEED was the first to employ all those techniques. Frankly, it's not just Fllay who went psycho or Kira who had to live all through the dilemmas of having to kill someone in a war in the entire Gundam universe, there had been other examples of them to great effect. You got rather sad that Dearka only had 5 minutes of fame, I got kinda sad when Jerrid Mesa always seem to kill all the women he meets and thrash really good MS and getting defeated; I mean, there seems to be something deeper to it than being Zeta's "running gag" of the series. I have always loved mechas ever since I got acquainted myself with Evangelion a long time ago, and probably it is also one of the reasons why I kinda loved CE mechas to an extent, until I saw what they did with the Double X. In any case, you have already defined yourself to the reasons why you like SEED, and I think I have also stated my own reasons why I dislike SEED, but then again this is not the thread for that, it has another thread dedicated to it (but mostly GSD that is). I don't like CE because I didn't like the story and a whole lot of other things; this automatically makes me think that CE is a "lost universe" cause? why if that were the case I would take your admiration of SEED posts to be against other new Gundam anime because it would overshadow the SEED you've respected! But of course I know you're a better person than that, and wouldn't go rushing into battle saying why SEED is better than so and so, we have D-KLAC for that. That's what I've assumed from your posts, that is, on this subject (being very articulate in defending SEED or on any other Gundam related subject for that matter). Again, I will state that I still have hope left for the CE, no matter how bad it went during Destiny - I actually went throughout the series hoping it would pick up after Kira and company were introduced, going against what I have heard about them in some forums I have scanned before doing so. This could only be probably salvaged by the 3rd series or the movie, and I really hope so too, because I felt quite sad that I was reduced to helpless giggles when I ran through the last eps of Destiny again for no reason at all, and I have had such high hopes for the CE. Hope Morosawa doesn't fail me now. ;_____; __________________ Ethereal Exiled Queen. NATCH~~~!!!

2008-04-28, 08:51	Link #1391
Eidolon Sniper Tsubasa No Kami Artist Join Date: May 2004 Location: Returning to my Place as the QUEEN...XD	I have always been very vocal of my dislike for SEED, but yes, even bad shows have some of its good points, and it has always been that way. so yes, surprise surprise, I would like to think I am one of those fans. I did not suddenly like the show, I have always liked the show (le GASP! ) because of Fllay and pre-Freedom Kira, and I do defend Cagalli and Lacus every now and then if the situation calls for it, even if I don't really count myself as a great fan of them. I also feel quite sad when Dearka did just turn into a "cameo" role in Destiny, I mean, he and Yzak could have been the interesting side to the war, as they now have more important roles than what they had in SEED. But yes, it was probably for the best because of what had happened to the majority of the old characters (most of all, Athrun and Cagalli - why Morosawa WHY??! ;_____; ). If there was an Athrun's Counterattack, I will cry like a little girl if Yzak and Dearka aren't included in there for real major roles. __________________ Ethereal Exiled Queen. NATCH~~~!!!

2008-04-25, 19:24	Link #1382
hero147 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	Gundam Seed trilogy would be nice. The reason why Gundam seed itself did great was because of its simplistic plots, nothing to the lines of so and so caused the war, it was Naturals vs coordinators straight up. I would enjoy a trilogy. Liked Seed more than 00 as a Gundam series for several reasons...

2008-04-26, 10:41	Link #1385
Sir Dearka Inglourious Buster Join Date: Dec 2007	Frankly, what you said there is nothing new either. To me, SEED is the sole representation of everything I liked about Gundam series, with a touch of original chara design and teen soap approach. The themes and motiffs I mentioned, plus the greatest friendship in anime history IMO. I am a bit sorry that the whole dramatism was a bit spoiled by the clumsy story in Destiny. But nevertheless it does not change the fact that I think the first SEED series is not just decent. It is just awesome.

2008-04-26, 18:47	Link #1388
Dean_the_Young Has a life IRL Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Somewhere in the Anglo-Saxon Sphere	Seed has its flaws (I don't think many deny it, and for some those flaws are enjoyment-ruining), but character progression wasn't one of them. You might not like where and how the characters developed, and personally I think some of the drama was more annoying than interesting (the entire Princess Clyne phenomenum which developed straight through Seed into Destiny), but the majority of the characters do progress, and with a fair amount of personality-exposure. That some don't get as much as the others is a simple fact that the two main characters were Kira and Athrun.

2008-04-27, 10:38	Link #1390
Sir Dearka Inglourious Buster Join Date: Dec 2007	Glad that you do not seem to be one of those radical people and you do see many good aspects of the show. I also have high expectations regarding the next installment (whether it'd be a movie or a series, I do not care, as long as it is good). I think that enough was said to straighten up our point of views to each other. Of course, I never expected from you to change your mind and suddenly get to like the show. You watched it, you did not like it. And you know why. I watched it. I liked it. And I know why. And I know that you know why you did not like it and why I liked it, so everything is alright. Simple, isn't it? On a sidenote, I have to say that I'm absolutely comfortable with the way Dearka was treated. That he was one of the five Gundam pilots but had his 5 minutes thanks to the "afterthought" and bad kit sales. That's what makes him not only interesting as a character, but as a marketing object. I think that he could be one good example of how to make a move that'd improve both the story and sales. Also, I am glad that his appearance in Destiny along with Yzak was more of a cameo, than a full role even as a supporting cast, so that the somehow lacking show did not smear his image to me like it did with the characters of Athrun, Cagalli and even Kira.

2008-05-07, 08:26	Link #1392
incube Dango Master IT Support Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Buenos Aires Argentina Age: 34	So until now there is nothing more than Seed and Destiny right? I mean sequel, ova, movies

2008-05-07, 09:04	Link #1395
4Tran Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005	That's right. There's a movie that's supposedly in production, but there has been no concrete information on that front for over a year now. There are side stories in the Cosmic Era universe, but if you're looking for more stories about Kira and crew, there probably won't be anything until the movie comes out. (There are also Seed and Seed Destiny mangas, but they're just alternate universe retellings of their respective shows) __________________ The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won...

2008-05-07, 09:45	Link #1396
incube Dango Master IT Support Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Buenos Aires Argentina Age: 34	I'll be waiting anxiously for the movie then and woudnt mind a third season =D Wanna see more of Lacus / Kira and Canagli / Arthurn

2008-05-22, 22:11	Link #1398
4Tran Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005	Moved Lacus Clyne posts to Lacus Clyne... the Plot Hole Character thread. __________________ The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won...

2008-05-22, 22:37	Link #1399
Pink_Princess578 Junior Member Join Date: May 2008	I really hope that they at the least make a movie! I really love GS and GSD i think it would be awesome to see more and see how the characters continue to develop. I especially would like to see more of Yzak and Dearka! They weren;t in Destiny enough!

2008-05-23, 07:24	Link #1400
duotiga Zander Yuusha Kyorugold Join Date: May 2003 Location: Singapore Age: 40	seed frame astray new gundam