(CR) 3-gatsu no Lion Season 2

[Marcus H.]

That reminds me, we only have four episodes to go, although the show can reach up to the second Sunday of April. Oh no, after this, we have to wait a long time for another season.

Sad times.

[orion]

I was rooting for Shimada. New (younger) blood winning would have made them more popular. People shouldn't have to be Saku's age to get awards like that. Now that he got that award he needs to retire imo.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by orion

I was rooting for Shimada. New (younger) blood winning would have made them more popular. People shouldn't have to be Saku's age to get awards like that. Now that he got that award he needs to retire imo.

People shouldn't have to retire and abandon their passion just because other people deem them too old. That was one of the main point that story was trying to make. Saku loves Shogi and if he wants to keep playing, he has every right to. It's not like he's stolen his titles, he's earned them through hard work and sheer willpower.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Kanon

People shouldn't have to retire and abandon their passion just because other people deem them too old. That was one of the main point that story was trying to make. Saku loves Shogi and if he wants to keep playing, he has every right to. It's not like he's stolen his titles, he's earned them through hard work and sheer willpower.

But if he can't ascend, he is just creating a bottleneck for the younger group.

[Wandering Soul]

Originally Posted by orion

But if he can't ascend, he is just creating a bottleneck for the younger group.

Except he can ascend, he did in this episode. You act as if older players have nothing to offer to younger ones, but they have years of experience that younger ones can learn from. Shimada may have lost, but he can learn from this failure. Older players can serve as a wall for younger ones to overcome which can provide 2 outcomes:

1- the younger player may beat them and prove that they truly earned their title
2- the younger player can lose and use that failure to improve themselves.

Both outcomes are beneficial to both parties. Besides who decides what the cut off age is for pursuing your passions?

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by orion

But if he can't ascend, he is just creating a bottleneck for the younger group.

So since he's at the very top he should retire? Sorry but that doesn't make much sense to me. Of course he can't "ascend", the only ascension left to him was the "eternal" title he gained this ep for defending the title ten times. Are you really going to complain about someone being unable to climb past the summit? For that matter, how is it a bottle neck? He's not blocking anyone until they make it all the way to the top themselves, at which point instead of a bottleneck he's more of a last boss sort of thing, an old master who stands as the final challenge to overcome. Besides, would it really be right to simply give the title away like that? The title would lose some of its value if you ask me. Say perhaps that after this fierce battle Yanagihara were to suddenly retire and say "OK, I've proven my stuff; Shimada, you can have the title", do you think Shimada would want it? The title has meaning because you have to face off against countless opponents and then defeat the current title holder in order to earn it.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Wandering Soul

Except he can ascend, he did in this episode. You act as if older players have nothing to offer to younger ones, but they have years of experience that younger ones can learn from. Shimada may have lost, but he can learn from this failure. Older players can serve as a wall for younger ones to overcome which can provide 2 outcomes:

1- the younger player may beat them and prove that they truly earned their title
2- the younger player can lose and use that failure to improve themselves.

Both outcomes are beneficial to both parties. Besides who decides what the cut off age is for pursuing your passions?

It's more than a passion. It's a livelihood for those players.

[Verso Sciolto]

The animators pointedly included some street scenes, well beyond the venue, to show present day Japan, show people outside shogi, brief glimpses edited in with their match footage. The old men gathering for the photo still create an environment in which younger people have to fit in (but don't). That environment here consists of the old boys network Yanagihara represents. Their way of doing things, their mentalities, are in dire need of replacement here but they deem themselves irreplaceable and care but for their own then wonder why so few join their ranks and do the work they will only do their own way. It is a vicious cycle.

[BWTraveller]

Yes, it's a livelihood, but it's a matter of pride as well. As I said, it would not be appreciated to "step aside" for the younger individuals who are not yet capable of defeating them. Even the people who talked to Saku about retirement talked of him doing so AFTER demotion. Right now he may be an old man, but he's an old man who can take out some of the best players around. That's what was being shown in the later part from my perspective, not a look at an "old boys' club" of geezers past their prime who tried to control things and make younger people conform when they should be stepping aside for the younger men, but rather a veterans' club of hardened warriors who'd fought hard for decades doing the best they could and proving their own strength and power, standing at the summit they'd earned through blood, sweat and tears shed every single day from the moment they awake. And the younger pros are HONORED to be invited to join in. Nikaido was on cloud nine to be sitting next to the Eternal Kishou. But he was not forced to conform or treated to some sort of handout, he and Shimada and the rest were openly welcomed.

Basically, he's not like the old man Rei faced back in the first season, who lacked the strength or stamina or mental ability left to continue in the profession but didn't want to leave. He's just like the rest of them, fighting alongside everyone else and proving time and time again that he has not lost his edge. He's one of the most powerful pros in the association, and stepping down or retiring would be utter nonsense, no better than suggesting that Nikaido should quit because a sick kid ought to step aside and let one of the kids below him rise up.

Also, the images of the streets and the city were shown against the match itself, not the afterparty. It compared the outside city to the quiet shogi hall, but I don't see any connection between that and the old men.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

Yes, it's a livelihood, but it's a matter of pride as well. As I said, it would not be appreciated to "step aside" for the younger individuals who are not yet capable of defeating them. Even the people who talked to Saku about retirement talked of him doing so AFTER demotion. Right now he may be an old man, but he's an old man who can take out some of the best players around. That's what was being shown in the later part from my perspective, not a look at an "old boys' club" of geezers past their prime who tried to control things and make younger people conform when they should be stepping aside for the younger men, but rather a veterans' club of hardened warriors who'd fought hard for decades doing the best they could and proving their own strength and power, standing at the summit they'd earned through blood, sweat and tears shed every single day from the moment they awake. And the younger pros are HONORED to be invited to join in. Nikaido was on cloud nine to be sitting next to the Eternal Kishou. But he was not forced to conform or treated to some sort of handout, he and Shimada and the rest were openly welcomed.

Basically, he's not like the old man Rei faced back in the first season, who lacked the strength or stamina or mental ability left to continue in the profession but didn't want to leave. He's just like the rest of them, fighting alongside everyone else and proving time and time again that he has not lost his edge. He's one of the most powerful pros in the association, and stepping down or retiring would be utter nonsense, no better than suggesting that Nikaido should quit because a sick kid ought to step aside and let one of the kids below him rise up.

Also, the images of the streets and the city were shown against the match itself, not the afterparty. It compared the outside city to the quiet shogi hall, but I don't see any connection between that and the old men.

I couldn't agree more with you. I'd just like to add that while it's true that journalists were talking to him about retiring if he were to be demoted, we also heard voices from younger players saying an old fart like him should retire already (not word for word, but that was the meaning). Furthermore, the Shougi association is trying hard to promote their younger players like Rei, Souya, or that bishounen who almost became the challenger for the Kishou match, because older guys like Saku don't appeal to the masses. So you can't say they only care for their own.

I believe Verso Sciolto is gravely misinterpreting the message of this arc. Saku was portrayed in an extremely positive light, an old man struggling to stay in the game, who has lost countless comrades over the years and took it upon himself to carry their hopes and dreams, but also someone who is also looking out for the younger generation (he was worried about Shimada earlier in the series, he then realized and acknowledged how strong he was during this match, and he invited him and even younger players like Nikaidou for the commemorative photo). This arc was pretty much a love letter to the older generation. You could sense how strongly the author respects her elders.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Kanon

<snip>

I believe Verso Sciolto is gravely misinterpreting the message of this arc. Saku was portrayed in an extremely positive light, an old man struggling to stay in the game, who has lost countless comrades over the years and took it upon himself to carry their hopes and dreams, but also someone who is also looking out for the younger generation (he was worried about Shimada earlier in the series, he then realized and acknowledged how strong he was during this match, and he invited him and even younger players like Nikaidou for the commemorative photo). This arc was pretty much a love letter to the older generation. You could sense how strongly the author respects her elders.

Rei and Nikaidou were the commentators for the match so they most likely would have been in the photo. Shimada was the challenger so his place in the photo was secure.

He also skipped the post-mortem with Shimada to party. So unless there's a post-mortem in the next episode, he wasn't very helpful with his opponent.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by orion

Rei and Nikaidou were the commentators for the match so they most likely would have been in the photo. Shimada was the challenger so his place in the photo was secure.

He also skipped the post-mortem with Shimada to party. So unless there's a post-mortem in the next episode, he wasn't very helpful with his opponent.

Um, actually there's no indication that they "most likely" would've been in the photo. And Shimada lost, he didn't have any guaranteed place either. It was a direct choice on Yanagihara's part. He decided that as you said they were part of the match and should be in the photo. What, so it's an "exclusive" club unless he invites in random strangers and spectators who had nothing to do with anything?

Also, bear in mind that this was the LAST game only. The final title decision comes from a best-of-seven series of matches between the challenger and defender. This was the last of those matches. Thus, if he didn't do the postmortem here that's ONE match he didn't do it on, following an immensely long, grueling battle of minds. It's not even stated whether he was the one that decided not to do it.

[Stark700]

ED card for this week's episode:

[foxbox360]

Originally Posted by Stark700

ED card for this week's episode:

jojos bizarre shogi???

[SeijiSensei]

I was a bit disappointed with Hina because she didn't hug Chiho on the bench. Otherwise another brilliant episode that pulls on your heartstrings from start to finish.

Only a couple more episodes to go. I could watch this forever.

[grecefar]

Shogi is cool and all that but when kawamto sisters are back is just warm my heart, see how hikari added reÃ* in the kawamoto family in the war cry?

Baby steps for chiho the last step is the hardest

[Kanon]

Was that the first time we saw the Kawamotos' mother and grandmother? Out of the three sisters, Akari is the one who took after her mother the most.

Sad to see that Chiyo still hasn't fully gotten over her trauma. I think it was for the best that Hina left her alone when she froze up, she could have caused more harm than good. It's a problem only Chiyo herself can solve.

As for Takagi, it looks like even the badass teacher has given up on her. I wish the newbie homeroom teacher luck.

[Wandering Soul]

It's not surprising that to see that Chiyo still hasn't gotten over her trauma, but she's is one the path to recovery. Even small steps in the right direction are still steps.

While the older teacher may not have full gotten through to Takagu, he hopefully at least paved the way for the new teacher to.

[BBOvenGuy]

Originally Posted by Kanon

As for Takagi, it looks like even the badass teacher has given up on her. I wish the newbie homeroom teacher luck.

I don't know if "giving up" is the right way to think about it. They're at an impasse, yes, and Takagi won't go any farther until she decides to herself. But the teacher's parting lesson - one that was long overdue, if you ask me - may shake her up enough to make a difference.

Very nice contrast between Takagi and Hina. Takagi is mean because she's afraid of failure and doesn't know what she wants to do. Hina knows exactly what she wants to do, and is so busy barreling forward with it that she doesn't have time to think about herself. In other words, she's not getting in her own way.

PS - I can't help thinking it must be a blast in the studio when the ladies who play the Kawamoto sisters are in there. They play off each other really well.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Stark700

ED card for this week's episode:

I was thinking Space Adventure Cobra.