2021-11-28, 06:08 | Link #7561 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
|
Quote:
Loki has the mental compression of the magic to create such things, but at the end his magic has the power to stop easily the attacks of two maou-class beings together. The equation is necessary for every step of the magic. The more advanced magic system didn't allow Ross to easily handle opponents of her same level or above. Second. Maybe there is a little difference between CxC vol24 and vol20? The fact he unlocked DxD form that increased the strength of CxC to maou-class. I believe Issei was trashed by Belial in Agreas. His CxC was Ultimate-class while Belial is maou-class. Quote:
Issei who had to use P DxD, a God level form to fight Thanatos, a God-Class being because He said CxC, maou-class was useless against them. Tell me for which Reason Issei said he has to use DxD to fight Sairaorg btb? Because his power overpassed the maou-class. It's Higher that reached the God-Class. Why did Issei say he has to use DxD to fight God-Class beings? Saying DxD is so strong that can face God-Class beings. Not CxC, strange. It doesn't matter Super Devils here. Ishibumi created a new term, Over the maou-class. If the maou-class was so strong on par with Gods, He would have never created a new term Super Devils is a term for those Devils who have overpassed and by much the the limit of devils that's the maou-class. Like Hades said Sirzechs had outclassed so much the Maou that couldn't be called more a Devil. Ishibumi neither confirmed Issei is stronger than Miltan, so he can beat Issei? Vali ejod was called a Super Devil because his power overpassed the maou-class reaching the God-Class. He instantly killed a maou-class being as Pluton showing God-Class is superior to Maou-class. The same Vali said Ejod has the power to rival Gods. |
||
2021-11-28, 08:23 | Link #7562 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2020
|
Kiba also confirmed that CxC does not have enough power to oppose a God-class being in Shin DxD 4. Technically, it does have the firepower with Crimson Blaster or Longinus Smasher but Issei can't spam those techniques.
Quote:
|
|
2021-11-28, 11:53 | Link #7563 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
|
Quote:
|
|
2021-11-28, 16:26 | Link #7564 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2020
|
^That quote was from Issei, actually. This is what Kiba said about CxC against God-class beings:
Quote:
|
|
2021-11-30, 16:14 | Link #7565 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
|
Well the classes does not make sense to me. I mean the author never gave as an explanation what are the criteria to ultimate or satan class devil ? I mean that is the bare minimum or the maximus to be an ultimate or satan class devil. Even a low god class surpass a satan class opponent.
When Ise was fighting Thanto´s he did not use Boost to increase his power, but went straight pseudo DXD mode. |
2021-12-01, 11:17 | Link #7566 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2020
|
Quote:
|
|
2021-12-01, 15:59 | Link #7567 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
|
Quote:
As I said, this class does not make sense, because what is above satan class which is not a superdevil (God level) but is still stronger than a satan class, but weaker than a low god class. |
|
2021-12-02, 12:53 | Link #7568 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2020
|
Quote:
Quote:
So the criteria should be: *Strength surpassing High-class devils *Certain level of contribution in the Underworld *Being a direct descendant of the original Maou (which would also mean far more demonic power than High-class devils) Quote:
|
|||
2021-12-02, 22:07 | Link #7569 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
|
Quote:
He has not said it, but he also has not say so. Serafall and Falbium are Satan Class tier, just that. While Sirzechs even in base is as strong or strogner than the original lucifer who was the strongest Maou. Yeah, it was said that Satan could already rival the power of the weakest God's and they also had tricky powers which could lead them defeating the weakest gods. |
|
2021-12-02, 22:17 | Link #7570 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
|
Quote:
Quote:
Neither Azazel or Barakiel are Satan Class, they are ultimate class tier as Angel or Devils. And Super Devils could already rival the strongest Gods, even normal Satans such as belial could defeat low class Gods. Quote:
1/4 of the power of Ophis is wrong I believe, I dont quite remember. |
|||
2021-12-02, 22:29 | Link #7571 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
|
Quote:
Satan class is the pinacle of the devils power, and in a volume of Belial fighting the weakest gods was said, they he could overpower them thanks to the tricks of the Devils powers. Satan Class is the weakest level of Gods, but they still can defeat them due their abilities. And Super Devils surpasses the limits of the Devils and surpassing even top gods. |
|
2021-12-02, 22:39 | Link #7572 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
|
Quote:
|
|
2021-12-02, 23:53 | Link #7573 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
|
The thing about Gods and Maou/Satan isn't about just strength from the start. Gods and Devils are opposite beings. Ise suffer minor damage simply by doing Buddhist chant. That was in V1. Prayers, light, items blessed with power of God or Buddha are known to be poison to Devil from V1, Rias even mention sunlight affects Devils too. If we're going to use a species' weakness to rank their strength, I suppose we need to consider Samael the strongest being then? Cause he can kill Ophis and maybe Great Red.
|
2021-12-03, 09:42 | Link #7574 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
|
Quote:
Leaving aside how much is illogic something like that because since the beginning the three faction were balanced in power (before the civil war and that Rivezim was introduced). Without Maou-class being the Fallen Angels would have been erased since the big war or before. 1. Kiba during the conference peace of vol4 said Azazel’s aura was the second strongest here, even though there were Serafall (maou-class) and Michael. 2. Kokabiel is ultimate class and is nowhere near the level of Azazel and even for the wings. 3. Issei said he could fight Barakiel only because his armour got enhanced (maou-class) and even without this, do you really think an ultimate class could fight Issei CxC maou class? For your logic you are saying Azazel considerated their strength only in base form without BxB? It has not sense. It like if I should bring Issei to fight a God and only because is in his base form, I say he can’t fight a God without considerate his full potential. Anyway saying Hades is just x4 Maous is illogical when a weaker God like Loki could already handle two maou-class beings. Hades Handled the attacks of Two top 10 beings and all DxD team. Combined attacks maybe more powerful than 4 Maous. |
|
2021-12-03, 12:24 | Link #7575 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
|
Quote:
Quote:
First of all, it was said that Heaven and Hell were balanced, there is ultimate Angels such as Michael and there is Ultiamte Devils such as Tannin. If Ultimate level of Angels were able to fight the Maou, then there is no reason for God, hell and all the devils would be eradicated. Ultimate level of Devils already rival the Serafin or the strongest Angels. 1.- Kiba's statement was wrong, proved when Catteleta was defeating Azazel without much problem and where he had to use his BxB to defeat her. Just as Azazel said he had to use BxB for Creusdarry which Sirzechs defeated with ease in base, heck, even Azazel said he had to use BxB for Pluto, a Ultimate Class Reaper. To further prove that Kiba was wrong, even Akeno said that it was needed Sirzechs, a power level of Satan to defeat Kokabiel in Volumen 3 ""Buchou criticised. But Akeno-san had an angry expression. “Rias. I know that you don’t want to cause problems for Sirzechs-sama. It happened in your territory. In your base. And it happened after the family problem. But it’s a different story if the leader of the enemy appears. It is a problem that surpasses the level that you can solve. Let’s borrow the strength of a Maou.”" They dont know very well the power levels. Also read this: " The demonic power given off by Cattleya’s body swelled up and gave off an ominous aura. A mass that was near that of Sirzechs-sama and Serafall-sama... Just what on earth was that snake she just swallowed...? Azazel fired countless spears of light at her, but they easily vanished just by Cattleya calmly moving her right hand sideways. Such power! Even though you can say the Fallen Angel Governor Azazel’s power is the first or second most powerful of those here today!" Kiba said that Cattleya power were close to Sirzechs and Serfall, which will make Catteya weaker than both, yet said that Azazel was the first or second strongest? Mmmm is a bit contradictive. And then, when Azazel was inferior to Snake Catt, Azazel and Cat said the next: "“Yes, he who is the Dragon that possesses infinite power. For the sake of the world’s reformation, I borrowed a little of his power. Thanks to that, I can fight against you. There’s even a chance that I can beat Sirzechs and Michael. They’re such foolish Governors, and so are you.” “...So I am. I may be foolish. I can’t do anything without Shemhaza. I’m just a Sacred Gear enthusiast. —But you know, do you really think that Sirzechs and Michael are idiots? At least they’re far superior compared to someone mediocre like you.”" Catt even with the power of Ophis, was not sure he could take Sirzechs or Michael and Azazel further proves that he is weaker than both. 2.- Yes, an Ultimate Class devil can fight a Satan Class, of course it wont win just as Barakiel lost. Barakiel was very inferior to Issei, he did have great power, but Issei was not going all out, even Barakiel admitted from a few hits he was not a rival and decided to run and hide for a moment. 3.- Once again dude, Azazel does not know the power of Dulio, Azazel just knew he was the strongest angel, he has never saw him use his balance breaker, and Tobio with his balance breaker is mid God Level at best at that moment, Dulio is an Ultimate level angel since Azazel does not know his power, Sirzechs is a Satan tier and Azazel is an Ultimate Class Angel too, as I already proven to you. You are ignoring what Azazel knew at that time and trying to use what we know, which is different. At best, Azazel thought that their power power combined could be 4 times satan class, at best since he didnt knew the real power of everyone. |
||
2021-12-03, 14:27 | Link #7576 | ||||||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
|
[QUOTE=kiiro94;6493832]Who was talking about that? I didnt understand you.
What makes them weaker than Satan Class? Mmm it should be, what makes them on that tier? Quote:
“To tell you the truth, out of the three factions of the God, the Fallen Angels and the Devils, the Devils have the least power. We are actually in a tight spot but we are still safe because the current Maou-samas have powers equal to those of the previous Maou-samas.” This was before Ishibumi introduced the Super Devils and other maou-class beings like Grayfia or Belial. So Fallen Angels have maou-class beings. Michale like Uriel or Gabriel who are the strongest Angels are the four seraphs for a reason. After them there are the other 6 seraphs and below the Ultimate Angels. Quote:
Quote:
Where and when She was defeating Azazel? Because in the novel after She enhanced her powers, suddenly an attack hit Azazel and was from Vali. Immediately after Azazel used Fenrir’s SG. Quote:
Quote:
Also the fact how Vali BxB defeated easily Kokabiel shows a maou wasn’t necessary. Vali BxB was said to be on the same level of CxC Issei before the power up. Quote:
Quote:
Even if Michael and Sirzechs should be more powerful, what does change? Because in every level there are three tier and this just shows those just are on a higher tier of maou class. Sairaorg in vol9 was much stronger than Rias? Does it mean she’s not high class? No, that Rias is on an inferior tier. Quote:
Issei CxC were easily destroyed by Belial in vol20 because Issei wasn't maou class. High-class devils can’t fight Ultimate devils class and for your logic Ultimate devils can fight Maou class devils even if they’re weaker? Still Barakiel fought Issei when he went out with so many boost and else. Anyway Issei stated he could fight Barakiel only because was Maou-class, are you going to go against the novel? I forgot Armaros who is even Maou-class and fought Rossweisse and Grayfia without being eliminated. Quote:
Did someone see the four maou fight Indra? No, but everyone uses that citation. Did Issei never see Sirzechs true form? No, but he knew Rivezim was far inferior. Did Rossweisse ever see Vidar fight Thor? No, but she knew Vidar was on the same level of his brother. So the fact he didn’t see Dulio fight is not relevant. Do you really believe the TRUMP CARD of Heaven is just ultimate class? Wow, they have planty of ultimate angels. Mid God level, not bad considerating Loki could easily handle two maou class beings and for you Dulio is on that level. Quote:
|
||||||||||
2021-12-03, 23:32 | Link #7577 | |||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
|
[QUOTE=Giuseppe1234;6493839]
Quote:
But thanks that they still have OP characters such as Maous, then they are ok. You are just twisting things. And Angels are not Satan Class, nothing says that. What I can say, is that even though they are weaker, they have the natural weakness of Devils, Read this: "Mirana-san created an extremely large spear of light (its power was almost on the same level as a Fallen Angel Cadre) to easily obliterate her spells." "—In the prime of Your Eminence, you were able to totally defeat Fallen Angel cadres, and also ultimate-class Devils. Even the Maous were fearful of your sword.”" Azazel is Cadre, an Ultimate Class Angel, and yet there is still a distinction between Satan Class power and Cadre or Ultimate Class such as Azazel. Mirana, is said to have power near or equal to Azazel and she can take on Ultimate Class Devils. Quote:
Quote:
Azazel was out of her league, he had to use his sacred gear in balance breaker to ddefeat Catt. And now Azazel was gonna use his SG just because he wanted and not needed? Lol, the same happened with Catt, he needs more power for Satan Class tiers. Quote:
Quote:
Then she uses the Snake, boosts her power near Sirzechs, and then she was casually negging his attacks, yet she still doubts if she could win Sirzechs lol. And there is still a difference between being a Satan and Ultimate Class. Tannin is an Ultimate Class devil with power near Satan, yet still not on that tier. Quote:
And you are wrong, Belial never destroyed his CxC, that was Rizevim, still, Belial was stronger. High-class devils canÂ’t fight Ultimate devils class and for your logic Ultimate devils can fight Maou class devils even if theyÂ’re weaker? Still Barakiel fought Issei when he went out with so many boost and else. Anyway Issei stated he could fight Barakiel only because was Maou-class, are you going to go against the novel? Quote:
Sirzechs > Michael > Azazel Satan > Serphin > Cadre Satan > Ultimate Devil > Ultimate Devil. Both Michael and Azazel are Ultimate devil tier as power, they could fight Sirzechs for sure, but Satan is still a tier above. |
|||||||
2021-12-04, 04:49 | Link #7578 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
|
But Azazel's true worth isn't at his strength though. Even Cao Cao mention it to Ise.
Quote:
|
|
2021-12-04, 15:40 | Link #7579 | ||||||||||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
|
[QUOTE=kiiro94;6493878]
Quote:
Exactly how do you think Fallen Angels could compete and have more power than the devils with their Maous with less members? having Maou-class beings. Quote:
Read this: Quote:
Vasco defeated Kokabiel that’s not Maou-class being. Quote:
Catt who specifically said one she reached the maou-class that could only thanks to the snake she could now fight Azazel? Strange. Because I remember Catt was completely dominated by Azazel before. No one ever stated Azazel was inferior Sure, not mentioning Azazel’s aura was the second strongest even if there were Serafall or Michael Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Anyway Vali demonstrated a maou class being wasn’t necessary to defeat Kokabiel Quote:
Quote:
I already explained you there are tiers in every class and the difference between them are immense. Clearly Azazel is not on the high-tier. Are you making a discussion without know the difference between having maou-class power and not having a such status on the society? First, Satan is the title of devil society for the four great kings and because the Satans were so powerful, they created a power level based on their strength for anyone who can rivals them or overpass. Exactly this is what someone means when someone has Maou-class powers. Second, Tannin in raw power is Maou-class beings and the fact he’s ultimate devil class is irrelevant because is a noble title and the highest you can reach on the devil society. Belial is ultimate class devil with maou class powe. Quote:
They fought for the whole match and Issei went out using dozens of Boost. An ultimate class can’t fight a maou-class not even for a second. Or shall I remember you how the Maous’descendants were easily killed in Zero? Oh yes, you are negating Issei’s declaration where him-self said he could fight Barakiel only because his strength was maou-class. Quote:
Or how successfully Belial blitzed and stopped Issei, doing drink him the blood? Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Same thing for the Cadre ignoring it’s not always in this way because there are Maou-class fighters. Go and read the wiki. Michael is ultimate class as Azazel? Explain me so how Devils had smallest power with maou-class beings when the other faction didn’t have? Because they have maou-class beings. Catt who said only because was maou class she could fight Azazel and even Michael. Ultimate class can’t fight Maou-class beings, stop with this that’s doesn’t exist. High-class devils can’t fight ultimate class devils. And why did you even do another discussion on Reddit on the same argument without reply anymore? |
||||||||||||||
2021-12-04, 16:31 | Link #7580 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
|
Quote:
I am sorry, that I did not explained well: The classes did not make sense, because they are social status in the underworld, although they are also used as measurement for strength. How strong a devil must be to be qualified to be an ultimate class devil in terms of strengths? I mean sure you need to be stronger than a high-class devil, but not all the high class devil are equal in strength: I mean Sairaorg Bael defeated Zephyrdor. Sure this guy was joke, but his demonic power are above Rias. And Sairaorg has barely any demonic powers. Well I will try to explained in detail: When Sona´s sister was introduce, Sona was worried, because he knew she has a sister complex, as she could destroy Japan easy sure Japan is not a big country, but we got an idea how strong a satan class devil might be. We did not knew full strength of her based just on Sona´s comment, but it was just a guess. As the story continued we learn that even the weakest god surpass a satan class devil in terms of strength. So we were introduce to Vali´s grandfather Rizevim Livan Lucifer who was the first super devil. We learn that, when a devil exceed the power of Maou he is consider irregular as devil or a super devil. So rivals the gods. Sure the author never stated, that Rizevim Livan Lucifer was among the 10 strongest. So it means, that when you surpass the satan level you are super devil. We know that Sirzeches and Ajkua are among the top 10. Rizevim could fight with Ise DxD mode G was far stronger, that his pseudo DxD mode. So if a devil surpass Maou level he is super devil, because a super devil is just a god class being. So when Rias use her Forbidden Invade Balor the Princess for the first time her power was above Satan level. Does this idea make sense ? In my honest opinion,no. If you surpass Satan level you reached the power of the gods, which are stronger than a satan level. So if Rias´s and Sairorg are above satan classed, why are the not superdevil? As Ise stated about Sairorg, that his power is above satan class. He would need his pseudo DxD mode to fight Saiorg. Which proves, that he has reached the level of the gods. I mean we know Ise CxC is satan class why he did not think about to use Boost to increase his satan power? Ise has realized that it does matter how much he Booted his power, it would not be enough to fight Sairorg, so he needs his strongest form to win. It is unforunted that Sairogr has reached his limit. Last edited by bashkim1234; 2021-12-04 at 17:12. Reason: Correction |
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|