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zibi88 · 2018-01-09, 17:43

Well not really, there is still the case of how and why did Gendo use NOVA to describe those figures, he had to had some other plan on his mind, like he wanted humans to evolve into transcendence in order to overthrow that space transendence will that forces world to do as it pleases. Maybe this is the reason why the will is sending those vessels to earth becouse it wants to stop that plan from happening.

Why did maria drop kazuya and arcadia to elca. It could be that she wanted to save her grandchildren and give them brighter future than on earth. So when the goddesses die along with evil-gendo, she will cut off the link and make kazuya stay there and become the new head male to create offsprings with that stigma bodies.

GendoAizenPig · 2018-01-09, 18:23

@zibi88

If Maria had plans to leave them on Elca she didn't tell the Legendary Pandora, who clearly want to bring Kazuya back. She more than likely sent them there to end the Nova threat to Earth. Also Ibaneil is not the only male on Elca. They're rare, but there are others. Kazuya doesn't need to stay there for that. I also seriously doubt they'll have a head male after this is over considering all of the trouble they've suffered until Ibaneil who is in a similar position.

Gengo's plan is psychotic. He wants all of humanity to transcend which sounds okay until you realize that would give him complete control over it through Kazuya. He would be a dictator because humans wouldn't have free will anymore. That's not evolution. It's a step back.

Transcendental Will needs to be elaborated on more. So far it seems like a concept that lacks physical form. If that's the case you can't really combat it.

Kadmos1 · 2018-01-09, 23:36

Here's an interesting harem ship question concerning "Freezing" and "Sekirei". Of the respective couples of Minato/Musubi and Kazuya/Satellizer, which pair do you think has a more beautiful relationship? This is not about which series you like better, but more of which couple you think has a more beautiful or sweeter relationship. Though I have/do read the manga of both, I found Minato/Musubi to be more romantic. One reason is because "Sekirei" has more "strongly romantic scenes" for than "Freezing" has had for Aoi/Kazuya. Also, given that "Sekirei" isn't as dark as "Freezing", I think Minato/Musubi is the sweeter couple.

From "marry her and get her pregnant already" or "never wear a condom when banging her" standpoints, I think Kazuya/Satellizer have more sexual tension.

GendoAizenPig · 2018-01-09, 23:53

@Kadmos1

Kazuya and Satellizer hands down. It wins on the virtue that he only has eyes for her. Harems destroy any sort of romance to me when I know the guy messes with other girls. Kazuya also went through a heck of a lot more to earn Satellizer's affection imo. Musubi literally fell out of the sky. Minato didn't earn anything. That's just my take on it though.

It helps that Freezing isn't a harem. Not really a fair comparison.

Kadmos1 · 2018-01-09, 23:59

If you apply "harem" in the sense of at least 3 girls liking/lusting after the lead guy (Satellizer, Rana, and Cousin Ouka), then I would say the series is a harem. Also, a harem can have the lead guy having eyes or pants for only 1 lady. For example, "Ai Yori Aoshi" saw Kaoru having a clear dedication to Aoi-chan, despite living with a few other gals.

GendoAizenPig · 2018-01-10, 01:23

@Kadmos1

Considering Ouka has been non-existent for a long time and was turned down instantly that seems like reaching to me. At best it's a love triangle, but even that has never really been more than fuel for some comedy moments. Multiple sites don't list the manga as a harem, and I happen to agree with them.

I know the difference between True Harem and Harem anime/manga. I also know that Sekirei definitely leans to the True Harem. I should've made it clear that I was referring to True Harems. My apologies.

Kadmos1 · 2018-01-10, 02:05

None taken. My last post is how I define a harem anime/manga/LN.

Tachibana · 2018-01-10, 03:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by GendoAizenPig

Gengo's plan is psychotic. He wants all of humanity to transcend which sounds okay until you realize that would give him complete control over it through Kazuya. He would be a dictator because humans wouldn't have free will anymore. That's not evolution. It's a step back.

Transcendental Will needs to be elaborated on more. So far it seems like a concept that lacks physical form. If that's the case you can't really combat it.

I wouldn't say psychotic but rather it's so unbelievable that it's sane. Gengo never intended to control all of humanity after they transcended, he's just a temporary leader. Kazuya will ultimately be the true leader once he's up to par and then Gengo will step down and Kazuya will take up the role of leading the new human race. Kazuya isn't going to just lead but also guide them. That is also part of his role.

From what I can understand. Unless all of humanity unite and transcend as a whole, they'll all be doomed. The only way to overcome the Transcendental Will is to evolve and overcome it. And the only way to do that is to transcend into a higher state of existence.

As for detail on the Transcendental Will. It seems like it's some kind of natural phenomenon.

GendoAizenPig · 2018-01-10, 04:14

@Tachibana

I'd argue all the leadership being his blood is more or less the same thing. Kazuya and the Legendary Pandora are the top of the totem pole in his plan. Any one person controlling all of the humanity is crazy. It's a forced dictatorship and it's convenient that it's Gengo's grandson that would be leading. The guy has a massive God Complex and the Chevalier are right to try to get rid of him. What he wants to make won't be humanity anymore. They'll just be drones for their master Kazuya. So either way humanity is doomed.

I have no issue with humanity transcending, but I do take major issue to the fact that Kazuya will have the ability to control them all. It's like a sick dystopia.

You say Gengo never intended to be in control and yet he has spent the entire manga hoarding secrets and manipulating valuable assets away from the Chevalier. I'll never see him as a good person after what he did to his son, daughter-in-law, Kazuha, and Cassandra. I'm holding out hope that he dies.

I know that the manga has tried to take a positive spin on Gengo recently, but I think it has failed miserably.

Like I said earlier, Transcendental Will needs to be explained better. All we have gotten thus far is vague. If it's controlling what has happened in Elca, does that mean it will just send another dimension after Earth if the Goddesses are defeated? Are the Natural Earth Pandora (Rana and her sister) part of its grand design too. If so, what purpose do they serve? Why did Maria even come to Earth to help? It's all pretty confusing stuff.

Tachibana · 2018-01-10, 05:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by GendoAizenPig

@Tachibana

I'd argue all the leadership being his blood is more or less the same thing. Kazuya and the Legendary Pandora are the top of the totem pole in his plan. Any one person controlling all of the humanity is crazy. It's a forced dictatorship and it's convenient that it's Gengo's grandson that would be leading. The guy has a massive God Complex and the Chevalier are right to try to get rid of him. What he wants to make won't be humanity anymore. They'll just be drones for their master Kazuya. So either way humanity is doomed.

Whoever said anything about controlling them under dictatorship? Gengo up and told Kazuya that his role was simply to lead and guide them. This is more aimed at the Pandora rather than humanity. The Pandora themselves will be followed by humanity who has united as a whole and so on. The Chevalier are right to assume that Gengo is holding secrets but not that he's going to become some kind of tyrant.

Besides, Radox seems to be the perfect candidate to become a dictator leading the world. He used European forces and went to the nation of Japan to deal with Gengo. This is not only an invasion of another country but it can result in a war. Radox even declared that he is willing to destroy Japan to get the Gengo. This man has clearly lost his mind. This is also a man who is letting a petty grudge against Gengo get the best of him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GendoAizenPig

You say Gengo never intended to be in control and yet he has spent the entire manga hoarding secrets and manipulating valuable assets away from the Chevalier. I'll never see him as a good person after what he did to his son, daughter-in-law, Kazuha, and Cassandra. I'm holding out hope that he dies.

Gengo has a damn good reason for keeping those secrets. There are some secrets that cannot be yet known until the time is right. Gengo even admitted that if the Chevalier knew the truth they would have tried to take action but would have failed miserably. The Chevalier wouldn't even know what the hell to do.

GendoAizenPig · 2018-01-10, 06:00

@Tachibana
It's not about intent. It's about the fact that Kazuya could do it. It's about the fact that the Legendary Pandora are far more powerful than anything humanity has to offer. They would have full control and they're all related. If you don't see how that's a bad thing, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Power has to be spread. Gengo was given information and used it to make a family dynasty.

Radox is an asshole, but he sees Gengo as a threat to humanity (which I do too obviously). The only reason he was given power back was because Gengo took West Genetics hostage. He literally took all of the best Pandora from around the world and made them all traitors to their home countries. If you're going to call out Radox for his bullshit, at least call out Gengo for his lol. This wasn't some unprovoked attack. Gengo knew that it was coming because he pretty much declared war on the world. He already is a tyrant.

Gengo not believing anyone could handle what he knows just shows what a pompous asshole he is. Maria couldn't have picked a more arrogant jerkwad.

A good portion of the problems in the story are because of him. The E-Pandora project wouldn't have happened had he just trusted Scarlett from the beginning. This caused one of his daughters to fix his screw up and die along with a lot of Pandora. The Saurian invasion would've been prevented had he just revealed that Seiga Industries was up to something instead of just letting it happen. This again caused a lot of Pandora deaths. The Busters killed a bunch of Pandora trying to get him for betraying the Chevalier. The amount of corpses caused by this guy that is so much more intelligent than any other human is astounding. 10 out of 10 would vote as savior of humanity.

Needless to say, I don't agree with you at all on Gengo, but that's okay. This is what good discussion looks like.

Culaio · 2018-01-10, 06:21

@Tachibana
How how can Gengo be sure that he is most qualified to do what needs to be done, reality is that most likely there is someone who could find better solution to resolve problems gengo has problems with.

for example gamers resolved problems MUCH faster then scientists, in one case gamers resolved problem in 3 week while scientists couldnt do it in 13 YEARS. it was problem related to protein folding.
and there was multiple cases like that. what I am trying to say is that Gengo believeing only he can do it and that he knows whats best way to do it is extremly arrogant and very risky for humanity even in story we have example showing that sometimes other people are better at doing pandora related stuff compared to gengo: Roxanne Elipton has PLASMA weapon which was developed by america faster then gengo developed his.

and fact is that gengo keeping secrets needlessly costed good people lives, E-Pandora Project disaster happen because of him keeping secrets(there is no need for E-pandora with valkyrie project being in the work and whats more Ohara wouldnt be pissed at gengo if she known truth he shown her later) which means he also is responsible for Chiffon death

zibi88 · 2018-01-10, 14:43

Chevalier and Radox are simply greedy for power, they want to be seen as those that saved the world and those that can destroy the world if they wanted, like evil gendo.

They treat pandoras as personal weapons, they use the pandoras to fight off other pandoras more than fight off novas. The typical quarel over power is happening.

We can see that power greed and insanity when Chevalier and mostly Radox used that plasma stigma, they put power before balance which could result in pandoras short life. Chevalier also created and termineted e-pandoras, normal human girls that wanted to help save humanity, yet they got tossed aside like trash and not human species.

Gendo was the one to share stigma tech with others, that wasnt a tech that was given to him as "ready set go", he used his years to create it. He could use that tech for himself and create his own army to conquer the world, but he didnt, he shared the tech he created with other countries so they can help fight off novas. After that Gendo was still developinig it steadily further, but Chevalier wanted to sit around and wait for new tech to be given to them for free, non of them tried to develop it fughter on their own.

When they heared about the legendary pandoras they instantly wanted it, but after sending those assasins to kill off gendo, they lost their face and its clear that legendary pandora tech will be not given to them.

Chevalier and Radox remind me of evil-gendo, use all means to "control" pandoras as they please, not to save the humans but for their own desires.

Still its possible that the blond scientist that called Radox after Kazuya disappeared will leak to Chevalier the legendary pandoras or the legendary pandora stigmata stats. Yet Suna was to watch over that blondie so it might be the matter of time she gets rid of the rat, since only few people in the lab knew that the legendary pandora cant engage in fighting.

Personaly I wonder who would the pandoras save, Gendo or Kazuya. Seriously I would like to have more chapters with Kazuya interreaction with the legenday pandoras and with Arcadia to let them bond more. I really liked that ch151, with them going to the city together, so I am interested how Kazuya will interreact with his new younger-sister Arcadia.

ChuckE · 2018-01-10, 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Culaio

for example gamers resolved problems MUCH faster then scientists, in one case gamers resolved problem in 3 week while scientists couldnt do it in 13 YEARS. it was problem related to protein folding.

it's not like your average DOTA players solved this problem. Of course thousands and thousands of gamers, that are proficient in the similar task will be more capable that handful of scientists.

But anyway it was pretty obvious that Chevalier or whatever wanted to get rid of Gengo and get access to all his knowledge for obviously greater good

Moreover I am sure that knowing about the separate universe other organizations would start projects to get or move something there and possibly contact the beings from the other side. It's been always like this in the human history.

GendoAizenPig · 2018-01-10, 15:43

@zibi88

Gengo created unstable Legendary Pandora that have very screwed up morals and emotions. He literally created alien weapons.

The Chevalier did come up with new tech. Roxxane in particular surprised even Gengo with her faux Anti Nova System. Also despite them being faulty, the Busters were pretty impressive with their anti-freezing. They also provided the bodies and funds for the Pandora army that has protected Earth. Also keep in mind Gengo came up with a lot of this new tech because an alien came down and met him. He literally made the Legendary Pandora from her dna. How the hell were the Chevalier supposed to do that?

The E-Pandora stuff is screwed up, there is no defending that. It wouldn't have happened though if Gengo hadn't fired Scarlett without explaining anything.

The only reason that information was leaked in the first place is because Atsuko was blackmailed by Gengo. She was there against her will. Just another moronic decision by our resident genius who knows better than all of humanity.

Basically what I'm getting here is no matter what Gengo is right always because he knows better. Chevalier are bad because they don't want one man with power over all of the military that they funded and provided soldiers for. How dare they? Isn't it possible that Gengo is responsible for all of this because despite wanting to save humanity, he doesn't trust it?

Tachibana · 2018-01-10, 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by GendoAizenPig

@Tachibana
It's not about intent. It's about the fact that Kazuya could do it. It's about the fact that the Legendary Pandora are far more powerful than anything humanity has to offer. They would have full control and they're all related. If you don't see how that's a bad thing, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Power has to be spread. Gengo was given information and used it to make a family dynasty.

It's not like Kazuya would go out and control everything under a cruel iron fist. Sooner or later, someone has to step up the plate and be humanity's guiding light in the darkness. The LPs on the other hand were early Pandora prototypes and one of Gengo's earliest known attempts to create warriors to fight the Nova, but all this failed. They also just so happen to be very powerful. And they were later used as part of a project to produce powerful Pandora who served as a middle ground between normal Pandora and Novas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GendoAizenPig

Radox is an asshole, but he sees Gengo as a threat to humanity (which I do too obviously). The only reason he was given power back was because Gengo took West Genetics hostage. He literally took all of the best Pandora from around the world and made them all traitors to their home countries. If you're going to call out Radox for his bullshit, at least call out Gengo for his lol. This wasn't some unprovoked attack. Gengo knew that it was coming because he pretty much declared war on the world. He already is a tyrant.

Gengo had to take action because the Chevalier were getting too reckless. He doesn't have time to sugar coat or sweet talk people into what he has to do. Gengo even admitted to becoming the world's enemy to save it. Sometimes in life you have to make choices that even you yourself don't agree with in order to get the results you're looking for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GendoAizenPig

Gengo not believing anyone could handle what he knows just shows what a pompous asshole he is. Maria couldn't have picked a more arrogant jerkwad.

Perhaps, but he's an excellent choice considering he won't hesitate to get the job done and actually knows what he's doing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GendoAizenPig

A good portion of the problems in the story are because of him. The E-Pandora project wouldn't have happened had he just trusted Scarlett from the beginning. This caused one of his daughters to fix his screw up and die along with a lot of Pandora. The Saurian invasion would've been prevented had he just revealed that Seiga Industries was up to something instead of just letting it happen. This again caused a lot of Pandora deaths. The Busters killed a bunch of Pandora trying to get him for betraying the Chevalier. The amount of corpses caused by this guy that is so much more intelligent than any other human is astounding. 10 out of 10 would vote as savior of humanity.

Don't go and blame Gengo and Scarlett's past on what happened to the E-Pandora project. It was the Chevalier that approved the project to begin with despite Gengo's protests against it. In truth, the project itself wouldn't produce any good results anyway. It was just a sideshow that the Chevalier authorized to distract the public until the Chevalier themselves could come up with a decent plan. Scarlett took advantage of it to produce Maria clones to prove that she was better than Gengo.

The 12th Nova Clash was the result of the Chevalier working with Seiga to get at Gengo. And yes, he did take action to put an end to it but he wanted to witness what would happen first before he did. Perhaps he felt it was critical to the Pandora's evolution, and he was right. It's thanks to this event that we now have Transcendental Pandora. Even if it did come at a price.

By the time of the Busters. The Chevalier had lost their patience with Gengo and decided pretty much on a suicide mission to kill him using the Busters. Gengo's past actions were a catalyst that led to the Busters attack on West Genetics but it's unfair to put the blame solely on Gengo. This just shows how far the Chevalier are willing to go in order to get their way.

Endscape · 2018-01-10, 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by GendoAizenPig

@Tachibana
A good portion of the problems in the story are because of him. The E-Pandora project wouldn't have happened had he just trusted Scarlett from the beginning.

This is so nonsensical it blows my mind. You have a point about Gengo not trusting the Chevalier, I honestly wouldn't trust those guys myself, but it's still a solid point. Why on Earth does Gengo have an obligation to trust Scarlett with any kind of world-ending secrets?

Quote:

This caused one of his daughters to fix his screw up and die along with a lot of Pandora.

Chiffon died because Scarlett was running clandestine human experiments. Gengo didn't put a gun to her head and make her do that.

GendoAizenPig · 2018-01-10, 16:09

@Tachibana

Like I said in my last post about it, if you can't see anything wrong with Gengo's family being the sole leaders of humanity I don't know what more I can say. Nepotism laws exist in real life because that's never a good idea.

You say Gengo knows what he's doing, but he only knows that because Maria helped him. There's absolutely no way of knowing if he was the best candidate because he never shared the full story with anyone else until Scarlett.

Gengo turning Scarlett away without explaining anything is the reason everything went to hell in the E-Pandora arc. That's exactly what happened. This is made even more ridiculous when he decides to let Maria tell her everything after the fact. Why not just do that to begin with?

So you admit that Gengo sacrificed a good bit of innocent Pandora to see what would happen during the 12th Nova Clash. Jury's still out on whether or not the transcended pandora were even worth it.

Gengo consolidated power at West Genetics for an obvious coup d'etat. It was solely his fault that the Busters were sent after him.

The problem with Gengo is he's willing to take away what makes humans great in order to save them. He's also pretty reckless.

@Endscape

That's exactly the reason why it happened though. Gengo later takes her to Maria and lets Maria tell her the truth. If Gengo would've explained from the beginning the E-Pandora arc would've never happened. Scarlett was Gengo's brightest pupil, she had every right to know.

Endscape · 2018-01-10, 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by GendoAizenPig

@Tachibana

Like I said in my last post about it, if you can't see anything wrong with Gengo's family being the sole leaders of humanity I don't know what more I can say. Nepotism laws exist in real life because that's never a good idea.

I can agree that Gengo concentrating all this power along his family line is bad, but with the fate of humanity at stake, I can understand why he didn't trust some politicians with all that power. The Legendary Pandora have more or less not done anything yet. The Chevalier would probably have had them running wars.

Quote:

Gengo turning Scarlett away without explaining anything is the reason everything went to hell in the E-Pandora arc. That's exactly what happened.

Again, Gengo has no obligation to tell Scarlett anything. Gengo not telling some junior scientist important secrets does not justify her running human experiments.

Quote:

This is made even more ridiculous when he decides to let Maria tell her everything after the fact. Why not just do that to begin with?

Because she is now thirteen years and a huge disaster wiser than she was before.

Quote:

So you admit that Gengo sacrificed a good bit of innocent Pandora to see what would happen during the 12th Nova Clash. Jury's still out on whether or not the transcended pandora were even worth it.

Gengo might have known they were up to something, but he didn't predict that it would go so pear shaped, and he moved to stop it pretty quickly.

Quote:

Gengo consolidated power at West Genetics for an obvious coup d'etat. It was solely his fault that the Busters were sent after him.

So before Gengo actually committed a crime, these guys sent insane assassins after him with untested tech they don't know the ramifications of, and you want me to think of Gengo as the bad guy in this scenario?

GendoAizenPig · 2018-01-10, 16:33

@Endscape

The Legendary Pandora went crazy and killed Pandora on their own side in the Busters arc. They're highly unstable and susceptible to the transcendental will.

I'd argue he did. He even says later that he sent her away because she was going to learn about his secrets on her own. He sent her away because she was too smart basically. She was trying to come up with a way to make up for the Pandora shortage with Maria clones. Anything goes when it's for humanity's survival right? Or is that only when Gengo does it? She didn't purposely screw up in the E-Pandora arc after all.

Yeah let's wait for the guy with super powered alien daughters to get prepared for his coup d'etat. A preemptive attack was their only chance. They took it. Both sides are the bad guys in this scenario. I'm not saying the Chevalier are good, but I am saying that Gengo is bad.

2018-01-09, 23:36	Link #4403
Kadmos1 ≠epic failure Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Glendale, AZ Age: 37	Here's an interesting harem ship question concerning "Freezing" and "Sekirei". Of the respective couples of Minato/Musubi and Kazuya/Satellizer, which pair do you think has a more beautiful relationship? This is not about which series you like better, but more of which couple you think has a more beautiful or sweeter relationship. Though I have/do read the manga of both, I found Minato/Musubi to be more romantic. One reason is because "Sekirei" has more "strongly romantic scenes" for than "Freezing" has had for Aoi/Kazuya. Also, given that "Sekirei" isn't as dark as "Freezing", I think Minato/Musubi is the sweeter couple. From "marry her and get her pregnant already" or "never wear a condom when banging her" standpoints, I think Kazuya/Satellizer have more sexual tension. __________________ ≠epic fail

2018-01-09, 23:59	Link #4405
Kadmos1 ≠epic failure Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Glendale, AZ Age: 37	If you apply "harem" in the sense of at least 3 girls liking/lusting after the lead guy (Satellizer, Rana, and Cousin Ouka), then I would say the series is a harem. Also, a harem can have the lead guy having eyes or pants for only 1 lady. For example, "Ai Yori Aoshi" saw Kaoru having a clear dedication to Aoi-chan, despite living with a few other gals. __________________ ≠epic fail

2018-01-10, 02:05	Link #4407
Kadmos1 ≠epic failure Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Glendale, AZ Age: 37	None taken. My last post is how I define a harem anime/manga/LN. __________________ ≠epic fail

2018-01-10, 04:14	Link #4409
GendoAizenPig Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: United States	@Tachibana I'd argue all the leadership being his blood is more or less the same thing. Kazuya and the Legendary Pandora are the top of the totem pole in his plan. Any one person controlling all of the humanity is crazy. It's a forced dictatorship and it's convenient that it's Gengo's grandson that would be leading. The guy has a massive God Complex and the Chevalier are right to try to get rid of him. What he wants to make won't be humanity anymore. They'll just be drones for their master Kazuya. So either way humanity is doomed. I have no issue with humanity transcending, but I do take major issue to the fact that Kazuya will have the ability to control them all. It's like a sick dystopia. You say Gengo never intended to be in control and yet he has spent the entire manga hoarding secrets and manipulating valuable assets away from the Chevalier. I'll never see him as a good person after what he did to his son, daughter-in-law, Kazuha, and Cassandra. I'm holding out hope that he dies. I know that the manga has tried to take a positive spin on Gengo recently, but I think it has failed miserably. Like I said earlier, Transcendental Will needs to be explained better. All we have gotten thus far is vague. If it's controlling what has happened in Elca, does that mean it will just send another dimension after Earth if the Goddesses are defeated? Are the Natural Earth Pandora (Rana and her sister) part of its grand design too. If so, what purpose do they serve? Why did Maria even come to Earth to help? It's all pretty confusing stuff. Last edited by GendoAizenPig; 2018-01-10 at 04:27.

2018-01-09, 17:43	Link #4401
zibi88 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008	Well not really, there is still the case of how and why did Gendo use NOVA to describe those figures, he had to had some other plan on his mind, like he wanted humans to evolve into transcendence in order to overthrow that space transendence will that forces world to do as it pleases. Maybe this is the reason why the will is sending those vessels to earth becouse it wants to stop that plan from happening. Why did maria drop kazuya and arcadia to elca. It could be that she wanted to save her grandchildren and give them brighter future than on earth. So when the goddesses die along with evil-gendo, she will cut off the link and make kazuya stay there and become the new head male to create offsprings with that stigma bodies.

2018-01-09, 18:23	Link #4402
GendoAizenPig Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: United States	@zibi88 If Maria had plans to leave them on Elca she didn't tell the Legendary Pandora, who clearly want to bring Kazuya back. She more than likely sent them there to end the Nova threat to Earth. Also Ibaneil is not the only male on Elca. They're rare, but there are others. Kazuya doesn't need to stay there for that. I also seriously doubt they'll have a head male after this is over considering all of the trouble they've suffered until Ibaneil who is in a similar position. Gengo's plan is psychotic. He wants all of humanity to transcend which sounds okay until you realize that would give him complete control over it through Kazuya. He would be a dictator because humans wouldn't have free will anymore. That's not evolution. It's a step back. Transcendental Will needs to be elaborated on more. So far it seems like a concept that lacks physical form. If that's the case you can't really combat it.

2018-01-09, 23:53	Link #4404
GendoAizenPig Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: United States	@Kadmos1 Kazuya and Satellizer hands down. It wins on the virtue that he only has eyes for her. Harems destroy any sort of romance to me when I know the guy messes with other girls. Kazuya also went through a heck of a lot more to earn Satellizer's affection imo. Musubi literally fell out of the sky. Minato didn't earn anything. That's just my take on it though. It helps that Freezing isn't a harem. Not really a fair comparison.

2018-01-10, 01:23	Link #4406
GendoAizenPig Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: United States	@Kadmos1 Considering Ouka has been non-existent for a long time and was turned down instantly that seems like reaching to me. At best it's a love triangle, but even that has never really been more than fuel for some comedy moments. Multiple sites don't list the manga as a harem, and I happen to agree with them. I know the difference between True Harem and Harem anime/manga. I also know that Sekirei definitely leans to the True Harem. I should've made it clear that I was referring to True Harems. My apologies.

2018-01-10, 06:00	Link #4411
GendoAizenPig Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: United States	@Tachibana It's not about intent. It's about the fact that Kazuya could do it. It's about the fact that the Legendary Pandora are far more powerful than anything humanity has to offer. They would have full control and they're all related. If you don't see how that's a bad thing, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Power has to be spread. Gengo was given information and used it to make a family dynasty. Radox is an asshole, but he sees Gengo as a threat to humanity (which I do too obviously). The only reason he was given power back was because Gengo took West Genetics hostage. He literally took all of the best Pandora from around the world and made them all traitors to their home countries. If you're going to call out Radox for his bullshit, at least call out Gengo for his lol. This wasn't some unprovoked attack. Gengo knew that it was coming because he pretty much declared war on the world. He already is a tyrant. Gengo not believing anyone could handle what he knows just shows what a pompous asshole he is. Maria couldn't have picked a more arrogant jerkwad. A good portion of the problems in the story are because of him. The E-Pandora project wouldn't have happened had he just trusted Scarlett from the beginning. This caused one of his daughters to fix his screw up and die along with a lot of Pandora. The Saurian invasion would've been prevented had he just revealed that Seiga Industries was up to something instead of just letting it happen. This again caused a lot of Pandora deaths. The Busters killed a bunch of Pandora trying to get him for betraying the Chevalier. The amount of corpses caused by this guy that is so much more intelligent than any other human is astounding. 10 out of 10 would vote as savior of humanity. Needless to say, I don't agree with you at all on Gengo, but that's okay. This is what good discussion looks like.

2018-01-10, 06:21	Link #4412
Culaio Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009	@Tachibana How how can Gengo be sure that he is most qualified to do what needs to be done, reality is that most likely there is someone who could find better solution to resolve problems gengo has problems with. for example gamers resolved problems MUCH faster then scientists, in one case gamers resolved problem in 3 week while scientists couldnt do it in 13 YEARS. it was problem related to protein folding. and there was multiple cases like that. what I am trying to say is that Gengo believeing only he can do it and that he knows whats best way to do it is extremly arrogant and very risky for humanity even in story we have example showing that sometimes other people are better at doing pandora related stuff compared to gengo: Roxanne Elipton has PLASMA weapon which was developed by america faster then gengo developed his. and fact is that gengo keeping secrets needlessly costed good people lives, E-Pandora Project disaster happen because of him keeping secrets(there is no need for E-pandora with valkyrie project being in the work and whats more Ohara wouldnt be pissed at gengo if she known truth he shown her later) which means he also is responsible for Chiffon death

2018-01-10, 14:43	Link #4413
zibi88 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008	Chevalier and Radox are simply greedy for power, they want to be seen as those that saved the world and those that can destroy the world if they wanted, like evil gendo. They treat pandoras as personal weapons, they use the pandoras to fight off other pandoras more than fight off novas. The typical quarel over power is happening. We can see that power greed and insanity when Chevalier and mostly Radox used that plasma stigma, they put power before balance which could result in pandoras short life. Chevalier also created and termineted e-pandoras, normal human girls that wanted to help save humanity, yet they got tossed aside like trash and not human species. Gendo was the one to share stigma tech with others, that wasnt a tech that was given to him as "ready set go", he used his years to create it. He could use that tech for himself and create his own army to conquer the world, but he didnt, he shared the tech he created with other countries so they can help fight off novas. After that Gendo was still developinig it steadily further, but Chevalier wanted to sit around and wait for new tech to be given to them for free, non of them tried to develop it fughter on their own. When they heared about the legendary pandoras they instantly wanted it, but after sending those assasins to kill off gendo, they lost their face and its clear that legendary pandora tech will be not given to them. Chevalier and Radox remind me of evil-gendo, use all means to "control" pandoras as they please, not to save the humans but for their own desires. Still its possible that the blond scientist that called Radox after Kazuya disappeared will leak to Chevalier the legendary pandoras or the legendary pandora stigmata stats. Yet Suna was to watch over that blondie so it might be the matter of time she gets rid of the rat, since only few people in the lab knew that the legendary pandora cant engage in fighting. Personaly I wonder who would the pandoras save, Gendo or Kazuya. Seriously I would like to have more chapters with Kazuya interreaction with the legenday pandoras and with Arcadia to let them bond more. I really liked that ch151, with them going to the city together, so I am interested how Kazuya will interreact with his new younger-sister Arcadia.

2018-01-10, 15:43	Link #4415
GendoAizenPig Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: United States	@zibi88 Gengo created unstable Legendary Pandora that have very screwed up morals and emotions. He literally created alien weapons. The Chevalier did come up with new tech. Roxxane in particular surprised even Gengo with her faux Anti Nova System. Also despite them being faulty, the Busters were pretty impressive with their anti-freezing. They also provided the bodies and funds for the Pandora army that has protected Earth. Also keep in mind Gengo came up with a lot of this new tech because an alien came down and met him. He literally made the Legendary Pandora from her dna. How the hell were the Chevalier supposed to do that? The E-Pandora stuff is screwed up, there is no defending that. It wouldn't have happened though if Gengo hadn't fired Scarlett without explaining anything. The only reason that information was leaked in the first place is because Atsuko was blackmailed by Gengo. She was there against her will. Just another moronic decision by our resident genius who knows better than all of humanity. Basically what I'm getting here is no matter what Gengo is right always because he knows better. Chevalier are bad because they don't want one man with power over all of the military that they funded and provided soldiers for. How dare they? Isn't it possible that Gengo is responsible for all of this because despite wanting to save humanity, he doesn't trust it?

2018-01-10, 16:09	Link #4418
GendoAizenPig Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: United States	@Tachibana Like I said in my last post about it, if you can't see anything wrong with Gengo's family being the sole leaders of humanity I don't know what more I can say. Nepotism laws exist in real life because that's never a good idea. You say Gengo knows what he's doing, but he only knows that because Maria helped him. There's absolutely no way of knowing if he was the best candidate because he never shared the full story with anyone else until Scarlett. Gengo turning Scarlett away without explaining anything is the reason everything went to hell in the E-Pandora arc. That's exactly what happened. This is made even more ridiculous when he decides to let Maria tell her everything after the fact. Why not just do that to begin with? So you admit that Gengo sacrificed a good bit of innocent Pandora to see what would happen during the 12th Nova Clash. Jury's still out on whether or not the transcended pandora were even worth it. Gengo consolidated power at West Genetics for an obvious coup d'etat. It was solely his fault that the Busters were sent after him. The problem with Gengo is he's willing to take away what makes humans great in order to save them. He's also pretty reckless. @Endscape That's exactly the reason why it happened though. Gengo later takes her to Maria and lets Maria tell her the truth. If Gengo would've explained from the beginning the E-Pandora arc would've never happened. Scarlett was Gengo's brightest pupil, she had every right to know.

2018-01-10, 16:33	Link #4420
GendoAizenPig Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: United States	@Endscape The Legendary Pandora went crazy and killed Pandora on their own side in the Busters arc. They're highly unstable and susceptible to the transcendental will. I'd argue he did. He even says later that he sent her away because she was going to learn about his secrets on her own. He sent her away because she was too smart basically. She was trying to come up with a way to make up for the Pandora shortage with Maria clones. Anything goes when it's for humanity's survival right? Or is that only when Gengo does it? She didn't purposely screw up in the E-Pandora arc after all. Yeah let's wait for the guy with super powered alien daughters to get prepared for his coup d'etat. A preemptive attack was their only chance. They took it. Both sides are the bad guys in this scenario. I'm not saying the Chevalier are good, but I am saying that Gengo is bad.