(CR) Vanishing Line: Garo

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by DMurphy

I mean, this show definitely has shades of the 'it's like a fourteen year old boy designed it based on what he thought was kewl,' but Garo's kind of like that in general. That's part of its charm.

Well yeah, that's why my tone on the show's tryhardness immediately changed once I found out that it was a Garo show. But in this particular chase the charm is not working for me to the extent I hoped it would. So far it's not genuine and fun, due to the reasons I mentioned above, IMO and all that. (But man, that roller skate girl and her boobs flopping around like fish on land. That wasn't charming, that was embarrassing.)

[B214]

Well this is another unique Garo for sure, considering how Makai Knights are supposed to act in covert this is quite fun to watch. Kinda pity the Makai Priest who is supporting Sword. I wonder how many times has he had to erase people's memory.

[IceHism]

Great action scenes but don't care about macho men (or any of the characters really) and it didn't convince me to care about Eldorado.

[Tenzen12]

Not sure about battles yet, but I like idea of "not hero archetype" Garo like Sword is. He certainly is cool guy, but not in way it would cater your regurlar chuuni teenagers. I like him, though he will nedd some good interaction with other to be able shine as character. He does has failing potential for sure.

[MgMaster]

I personally welcome the massive amount of GAR this Garo had(hue hue ~ k that was horrible...). Just hoping it's more than that, though given the previous season, even the lackluster Guren no Tsuki, I'm not too worried about that.

[Cloudedmind]

I also really liked the first episode. Between this and Blood battle, I think I'm in for a fun season.

I also really liked Sword. Fun character, who doesn't seem to take himself to seriously, but still does his job properly, more or less. And I liked his interactions with Sophie and Zaruba. I also got a chuckle out of his dinner choice. I can imagine how much food, especially protein he's got to consume just to maintain his bulk.

[PhoenixRising]

I like Sword too. He reminds me of Dante from Devil May Cry. I'm looking forward to seeing his interactions with Luke/Rook.

Though I admit that the battles threw me through a loop at first because it was so fast-paced, but I really enjoy the Garo bike battles and it looks like its going to be interesting.

[The 48th Ronin]

This is an interesting take on Garo. Gives me a Kekkai Sensen vibes. Doesn't help that they're both airing this season.

Zaruba talked more in this episode than the previous two installments combined.

And, holy damn, That Madou Bike is plain awesome.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Not sure about battles yet, but I like idea of "not hero archetype" Garo like Sword is. He certainly is cool guy, but not in way it would cater your regurlar chuuni teenagers. I like him, though he will nedd some good interaction with other to be able shine as character. He does has failing potential for sure.

Sword is chick bait and drives a hot motorcycle. He had sex off camera with a hot girl. He even will have a loli following him. That's got to appeal to teen males.

[willyvereb]

Originally Posted by orion

Sword is chick bait and drives a hot motorcycle. He had sex off camera with a hot girl. He even will have a loli following him. That's got to appeal to teen males.

It doesn't work since most people can never imagine themselves to work up the effort for a body like Sword's and IMO in Asian cultures such build is often a point of ridicule than anything to be admired. The idea of "dumb muscle" is well-ingrained to it while women find it more intimidating than anything. Don't take my previous sentence as a fact, I may as well be wrong.

But AFAIK there's a good reason why most anime characters are slim and handsome teenagers than grown-ass macho men. Even in the West such a person would appeal more like a dad figure or future role model than something a teenager can identify as even in their dreams. Which isn't bad, actually. I can kinda say this could even inspire a youth to work towards this which is infinitely better than the mindset the typical "bishounen hero" produces. Just don't say this would really appeal to teen audiences. If anything it works for my generation. Sword has a very late 80s to early 90s style "badass hero" vibe which I am fully approving of.

[orion]

Originally Posted by willyvereb

It doesn't work since most people can never imagine themselves to work up the effort for a body like Sword's and IMO in Asian cultures such build is often a point of ridicule than anything to be admired. The idea of "dumb muscle" is well-ingrained to it while women find it more intimidating than anything. Don't take my previous sentence as a fact, I may as well be wrong.

But AFAIK there's a good reason why most anime characters are slim and handsome teenagers than grown-ass macho men. Even in the West such a person would appeal more like a dad figure or future role model than something a teenager can identify as even in their dreams. Which isn't bad, actually. I can kinda say this could even inspire a youth to work towards this which is infinitely better than the mindset the typical "bishounen hero" produces. Just don't say this would really appeal to teen audiences. If anything it works for my generation. Sword has a very late 80s to early 90s style "badass hero" vibe which I am fully approving of.

This isn't a teen title in the West. It's going to get a 17+ rating here judging by ep. 1 content and the dark shading in certain spots imo. With all the bodybuilding and physical appearance mentality, sports emphasis that's going on here, a few teens would prob be wanting to identify with him. He's not a father figure type here imo.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by orion

This isn't a teen title in the West. It's going to get a 17+ rating here judging by ep. 1 content and the dark shading in certain spots imo. With all the bodybuilding and physical appearance mentality, sports emphasis that's going on here, a few teens would prob be wanting to identify with him. He's not a father figure type here imo.

But Tenzen's post that you argued mentioned how Sword doesn't particularly cater to "regular chuuni teenagers" which I agree to some degree. Garo is made for Japanese audience and chuuni-teenagers are more of Japanese thing. Those chuuni-teenagers & otakus relate more to MCs like Kirito and whoever that MC dude's name from No Game No Life was. The former is a prime example of a cool-tryhard MC and the latter is basically otaku-avatar put in wish-fulfilling setting. Sword, not so much. He's more like Wild Tiger from Tiger & Bunny.

So, what Tenzen & Willy said still stands since your argument mostly only involved western audience.

[orion]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

But Tenzen's post that you argued mentioned the show doesn't particularly cater to "regular chuuni teenagers" which I agree to some degree. Garo is made for Japanese audience and chuuni-teenagers are more of Japanese thing. Those chuuni-teenagers & otakus relate more to MCs like Kirito and whoever that MC dude's name from No Game No Life was. The former is a prime example of a cool-tryhard MC and the latter is basically otaku-avatar put in wish-fulfilling setting. Sword, not so much. He's more like Wild Tiger from Tiger & Bunny.

So, what Tenzen & Willy said still stands since your argument mostly only involved western audience.

...which this title is also marketed to as Funimation is the distributor for this.

Not even a Wild Tiger stand in. He's not a father figure type. He's a bachelor (single hetero male) having fun.

We can agree to disagree as our disagreement is regionally based.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by orion

...which this title is also marketed to as Funimation is the distributor for this.

There's a difference between "intended audience" and "other parties who are also interested in watching". The former are Japanese and the latter are overseas/western.

Originally Posted by orion

Not even a Wild Tiger stand in. He's not a father figure type. He's a bachelor (single hetero male) having fun.

My comparison is more about their attitude. Though we haven't see much of Sword, so my comparison is still on surface-level so far.

Originally Posted by orion

We can agree to disagree as our disagreement is regionally based.

Which is why your argument does not connect. Tenzen & Willy are discussing about Japanese/Asian audience but then you came talking about western audience .

[willyvereb]

Originally Posted by orion

This isn't a teen title in the West. It's going to get a 17+ rating here judging by ep. 1 content and the dark shading in certain spots imo. With all the bodybuilding and physical appearance mentality, sports emphasis that's going on here, a few teens would prob be wanting to identify with him. He's not a father figure type here imo.

I can see your point. Certainly the man's man has far more appeal where I live in,too. Albeit with movements against "toxic masculinity" and "incorrect body image" I can also see that many companies steer away from this trope,actually. Regardless, you are right. It's more marketable in the West.

Not sure if there are many teens or youths can identify as Sword, though. Again, he's an adult man and has a lifestyle you can only relate as someone who experienced that age. His interactions with and treatment of Sophie and his whole attitude also screams an adult rather than a teenager. Granted, the buyer base in the West is more grounded in adults anyways, so yeah. In short as you said marketed for 17+ in the West so right around where this character type would be fit.

The point is as Obelisk said is that like almost every Japanese anime this is primarily marketed for the Japanese audience. It's aired on TV and watched by teens. Yet as Tenzen said its protagonist doesn't appeal to the chuuni demographic. That was the point. You might argue that it could appeal to a demographic of "edgy" teens but the term "chuunibyou" or just in short "chuuni" is AFAIK a Japanese-specific term so by default you should assume that country or possibly the region and not anything else.

[kuromitsu]

But... how does Sword not appeal to the "chuuni demographic"? He's a strong macho dude who has sex with hot girls and fights monsters with his bare fist and has a cool motorbike (with skulls!) and is also an actual superhero who fights with swords and whatnot. Sure, this character type is somewhat retro nowadays (which is why it's obvious that this is being marketed toward a Western audience) but he's a walking chuuni teen boy wishfulfillment. You used to have this character all over anime and manga in the '80s-'00s, and even nowadays it's not rare at all. (To the point where Osomatsu-san is parodyig it still, with Karamatsu.)

Originally Posted by willyvereb

You might argue that it could appeal to a demographic of "edgy" teens but the term "chuunibyou" or just in short "chuuni" is AFAIK a Japanese-specific term so by default you should assume that country or possibly the region and not anything else.

It's not a Japanese-specific term, it's just a term the Japanese use to describe edgy teens - or adults who behave like edgy teens.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by willyvereb

But AFAIK there's a good reason why most anime characters are slim and handsome teenagers than grown-ass macho men. Even in the West such a person would appeal more like a dad figure or future role model than something a teenager can identify as even in their dreams. Which isn't bad, actually. I can kinda say this could even inspire a youth to work towards this which is infinitely better than the mindset the typical "bishounen hero" produces. Just don't say this would really appeal to teen audiences. If anything it works for my generation. Sword has a very late 80s to early 90s style "badass hero" vibe which I am fully approving of.

how the hell macho don't appeal western??. what about batman??? superman???, wolverine????, this type of character could not be common and appeal japan, but for sure it is the "standart for western heros", normally only kids under 14 which like totally kid and slim look characters, teens and young adults love much more muscle and macho stype characters in western.

about japan, while is true which they like more that sort of characters, it's more due to japanese normal look, japaneses males overal are like that slim and not too much muscle, even martial artists, only sumo martial artists which you see they being more "muscle" and fat, or guys from yakusa to put "more fear" in they looks, overal they rarelly work on bodybuild, because they feel which due to they martial arts, they don't need to be "all muscle and brute" to defend themselfs once majority of martial arts where developed to be used by slim and not so muscle peoples.

but nowadays excluding the chuuny teens and otakus it's is changing specially exactly due to western influence, a lot of things are changing but still in a very slow pace(like some decades more), western is slowly influence japan not only on culture but also in "otaku market", western heroes like justice league or avengers are slowly start to gain popularity over japan but really at slow pace and western archtype of characters are slowly getting in japan tastes.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

But... how does Sword not appeal to the "chuuni demographic"? He's a strong macho dude who has sex with hot girls and fights monsters with his bare fist and has a cool motorbike (with skulls!) and is also an actual superhero who fights with swords and whatnot.

First, Sword’s brutish attitude is not what chuuni teens usually relate from their heroes. Most of them prefer their heroes to be cool(er) and possess some kind of elegance to them instead of total brute force. The combination of both make the heroes look extra cool when dispatching enemies (eg. Kirito, Tatsuya, and a slew of generic LN action MCs out there).

Second, Sword’s age and look are not what today's chuuni teens easily relate to for obvious reasons. Again, they usually want MCs that’s younger (aka. closer to their age) and cooler than just a “muscle guy”.

Third, not all chuuni teens like monster bikes. Yamaha DT125R like the one Kirito uses? Sure, that looks cool to them. But oversized monster bike like the one Sword is riding? That’s a different story.

As for being a hero, kiling monsters, and bedding gorgeous girls.....those are like the most basic things that straight male audience like no matter your age or where you come from. That’s not specifically catering to chuuni teenagers. They are called general appeal (just like delicious food). The first two of them are pretty much standard premise and requirements for a fantasy action superhero show and the last is pretty much providing the T&A factor that straight males simply like to various degrees (James Bond movies, anyone?).

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Sure, this character type is somewhat retro nowadays (which is why it's obvious that this is being marketed toward a Western audience)

So, just because Sword is a retro hero you make the claim that the showrunners are prioritizing western audience as this show’s main target audience? Really? You should know better. Garo has never been a western-targeted franchise. They made the various series for the Japanese audience first and VL is not an exception. And you seem to be aware that Japan has their own set of macho heroes in the 70s, 80s & 90s for their own Japanese audience. I already mentioned the likes of Guts. There’s also macho mecha pilots like the ones you see in Mazinger series, Getter Robo series, Gaiking, etc. And there’s manly Kamen Riders from the showa era such as Ichigo, Nigo, Stronger, Amazon, etc. I can list more but I think you already get the point: macho & retro =/= targeted for western audiences.

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

but he's a walking chuuni teen boy wishfulfillment. You used to have this character all over anime and manga in the '80s-'00s, and even nowadays it's not rare at all. (To the point where Osomatsu-san is parodyig it still, with Karamatsu.)

(to the bolded part): not really. I already elaborated above.

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

It's not a Japanese-specific term, it's just a term the Japanese use to describe edgy teens - or adults who behave like edgy teens.

Chuunibyo is a tad moe complex than just edgy teens. It can even be categorized into three more different types. And I don’t think English has the equivalent term for it (correct me if I’m wrong).

Originally Posted by Blueknight78

how the hell macho don't appeal western??. what about batman??? superman???, wolverine????, this type of character could not be common and appeal japan, but for sure it is the "standart for western heros",

I think you misunderstood Willy’s post. He said that macho heroes like Batman can be a future inspiration/role model for teenagers when it comes to what they want to become when they reach adulthood. However, no matter how much they like heroes like Batman, western teens can’t immediately relate to him compared to heroes like Spiderman (& Robin/Nightwing to a lesser extend) who are mostly depicted as teenagers or college students with relatable teen problems. After all, there’s a reason why Spiderman is super-popular with the comicbook main demographic (teens and tweens) and idolized by those who read/watched his adventures when they were at that age. Why? Because as teenagers, they felt a number of aspects of their lives are represented by the likes of Spidey, just like some wish-fulfilment otaku MCs from Re:Zero, No Game No Life, SAO, etc. Only, Spiderman did it better.

[Kanon]

I'm with Obelisk on this one, I'd say Sword appeals to males in general, and in no way to teenagers specifically. As almost everybody has noted, he's a retro hero from the 80s-90s, and times have obviously changed. I can't imagine a hero like Sword doing it for modern teenagers and chuunis in particular, they're more likely to appeal to their dads actually

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

I think you misunderstood Willy’s post. He said that macho heroes like Batman can be a future inspiration/role model for teenagers when it comes to what they want to become when they reach adulthood. However, no matter how much they like heroes like Batman, western teens can’t immediately relate to him compared to heroes like Spiderman (& Robin/Nightwing to a lesser extend) who are mostly depicted as teenagers or college students with relatable teen problems. After all, there’s a reason why Spiderman is super-popular with the comicbook main demographic (teens and tweens) and idolized by those who read/watched his adventures when they were at that age. Why? Because as teenagers, they felt a number of aspects of their lives are represented by the likes of Spidey, just like some wish-fulfilment otaku MCs from Re:Zero, No Game No Life, SAO, etc. Only, Spiderman did it better.

that is why i told which only around 14 or less age which normally you could see kids sticking more to characters like ben 10(the currently one) or more childsh things like titans go, normally teens above 14 not gonna choose by "age" or by being "macho or no" but by the "rule of cool", which normally most of the times ending going to the "macho ones" but also can have characters like spidey,


another note currently original spider-man is not more a "teen" the currently teen one is mile morales, original spider (peter) is a adult ofcourse most movies and cartoons try to show him more like a kid but only that versions in currently marvel hq universe the "teen spider" is mile.

well about nightwing, even being young you see him being very "macho like", being all bulk and muscle, normally most of the "teen characters around 16+ in HQ are much more muscle than japaneses heroes which again is a specific japanese art style, they love to draw characters less muscle and more slim/skinning, specially for teens, while western like to draw characters more "muscle" even if a little, this is one of the differences between western and asian art hq style.