2016-10-22, 15:54 | Link #161 | ||
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First, one important difference between skating and acting is the sheer physicality of the former. Actors have a lot of time and mind space to think about where they are etc; skaters have to focus on completing their technical elements AND embody a theme on top of that. And we were shown that these were the two things on Yurio's mind towards the end of his skate. Second, skaters perform in front of strangers all the time, so I really don't see why they wouldn't be used to trying to embody something new in front of strangers. And if he was so embarrassed at the end, then why did he still hang around in the arena watching Yuri? Wouldn't he have wanted to just hide away from everyone? If he was embarrassed, why didn't any of his inner monologue address that and link it to him not being able to embody agape? And then, besides being a style of performance they didn't normally skate, what was asked of the two Yuri was presented as being incredibly physically challenging. Especially if they haven't had time to build up their stamina in performing it. Yuri commented on it when Victor present the program at the start. The commentator also noted that he had two jumps in the second half - jumps are easier in the first half when legs are fresh. And the Yurio himself comments that the physical difficulty of the program is preventing him from embodying agape, and we can see from the ice flying everywhere and his breathing that this is true. The is no mention/symbolism to suggest otherwise at this point. Yurio found his agape, and the presentation showed that it was the challenge of the program that tired him out and prevented him from embodying the emotion through to the end. The presentation also suggested that Yuko may have an effect on him, though it certainly didn't stop him from thinking constantly of his grandfather despite starting to lose control over his skate towards the end. And I remained stunned that no one is talking about what Yuko's place in this is.
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Last edited by karice67; 2016-10-22 at 17:10. |
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2016-10-22, 17:23 | Link #162 |
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Honestly Yurio's key point of the episode was he rediscovered his vulnerable side he buried long time ago, so that this same vulnerability affected his performance feels the most natural outcome from a narrative standpoint. They build up it first and then make it effective in the most relevant part, making himleave afterward as a closure.
But this is a key point even in relation to Yuri and Yurio respective positions, positions that got inverted in this episode exactly because Yuri felt comfortable for the first time while Yurio felt uncomfortable for the first time. And in fact it's not by chance that so it was (inverted) the final result of the competition. And this is where Yuko's role comes into play. We would have expected her to stay supportive for Yuri as supposedly she always had. The performance Yuri reserved to her was the expression of how comfortable Yuri was before her in contrast with a stadium audience. Now the question is, why she left him to support Yurio, a complete stranger? My answer is because Yuri for the first time found his comfort by himself (and secondarily he also had Vicktor as support in a way). But that alone wouldn't explain why she went to Yurio, and the reason is because she recognised the same uneasiness in Yurio that affected Yuri for all this time. And Yuko doing so affected him, because she reminded him of his grandfather, adding up to his vulnerability. The narrative to me seems quite well-rounded in conveying it on different layers. On the other hand, if we take that Yurio got exhausted by the program being physically challenging, why Yuri didn't? Yuri even had a quad combination near the end of his program, sign that he had enough stamina to do them and end the program. And not just that, he even spend the whole night awake to practice. If you factor that Yurio won three junior championships in a row, realistically it's Yuri who should have had it harder? So why he wasn't that exhausted to even perform a quad combination at the end? The only reason I can figure out if we rule out the emotional component, is that Yurio failed planning his athletic training program (but they trained together) or that who staged his choreography failed at it. Because I'd expect the choreography to be calibrated to the performer from the first to the last second. So it would mean taht namely Vicktor is not the genius that we think he is if he wasn't able to size a program to his athlete, whom he trained with until now, meaning he should know him very well. Or that Vicktor sized the programs differently for personal reasons. But I didn't have any evidence in support of this possibility yet at least, end likely Yurio and Yuri would have know.
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2016-10-23, 22:45 | Link #164 |
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Yurio skated a perfect performance while Yuri faltered on one jump and touched the ice; so shouldn't Yuri lose points and not actually win? No matter how good Yuri's performance, I think that if he faltered, he should not have won...especially against an equally good performance from Yurio.
...and I couldn't help but let one thought immediately come to mind when Yuri decided he fit the female role instead of the male one in Eros...uke!
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2016-10-24, 07:02 | Link #165 |
さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん
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@Arya
Quads are tiring, especially if this is the first time a skater incorporates two into his program. Yurio hasn't been allowed to skate quads for the past few years. Yuri presumably has been using the quad-toe. Furthermore, Nishigiri tells us that Yuri has fantastic stamina. Given where they are in their careers, I can easily believe Yuri would hold it together better given his experience. And finally, they've only been skating these programs for a week. Most skaters can't skate their programs cleanly in that time. The skating season started about a month ago in RL, and the skaters have been working on their programs since at least May or June. But very few of the top skaters have had great skates yet. It just isn't that easy. So, sure enough, both of our characters' skates were flawed. Yuri fell on a jump. But although Yurio landed his jumps (one of them not so cleanly), his footwork in the final 30 seconds was pretty rough. In some ways, Yuri was better off because the step sequence is where skaters can really show the character of their programs, and his was at the start, before he got tired. But if you compare both final spins, Yuri's is steady and clean, whilst Yurio's is messy. Here's the analysis of someone who has done figure skating on Yurio's program, and then on Yuri's program. I'd recommend keeping an eye out for what she says about the skating each week. Also, wrt Yuko, there's a far more straightforward and (to me) realistic answer. She's a mother, and has been acting like a mother/big sister to both Yuri and Yurio. Her chasing after Yurio is an extension of that. As for me, this is tiring. I think I'd rather be writing more specific pieces about how the sport works and the implications for what we're seeing on screen. And I think most of you are probably sick of me too. So I'll see myself out and leave you all to it.
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Last edited by karice67; 2016-10-24 at 07:29. |
2016-10-24, 07:17 | Link #166 |
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That moment when Yuuri have been asking how to move like a woman reminded me of how relunctant Wong Fei Hong was about it in Jackie Chan's The Drunken Master (the Miss Ho part).
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2016-10-24, 07:31 | Link #167 |
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Has anyone seen this guy in this anime already?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Christian_Martinez I was kinda hoping the Philippines would be represented in this show, considering this guy I mentioned represented us in the World Skating Champs, but I guess he won't be appearing here. So much for the hype. |
2016-10-24, 17:11 | Link #168 | |||
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Also, Yurio was shown to do quads in competition before, taking the promise into account, that should mean he was doing quads from the age of 12/13. It's clearly a a strong indication of who is the most experienced in quad between them. So your explanation works for Yuri, not Yurio. And that's why it would be odd that Yurio got exhausted while Yuri didn't if the reason was strictly physical. Quote:
That's why the only technical reason for this disparity, ruling out Yurio high vulnerability factor, should be a different treatment from Vicktor. Yuri's program was said to have the quad combo in the last part of it due to Yuri's high stamina, and that means that Vicktor sized the program on Yuri strengths, so it's expected he did the same for Yuri, so why he was so exhausted? But hoestly the previous points kinda imply how it was Yuri to have it harder. The narrative has been steadily consistent in that, and in other aspects. If I may say it's kinda like you focused too much on the technicality of the skating and overlooked some of the actual content the story is providing. By the way I do find the narrative pretty packed of content all around, it's liek each time you look at a point some detail pop up that you didn't notice before. Quote:
Well, not me, but if it can't be helped ...
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2016-10-24, 17:29 | Link #169 | |
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Also, I read that apparently falling a jump isn't a catastrophe if you complete your rotation. |
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2016-10-25, 04:07 | Link #170 | |
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But yeah, I was a bit confused there. What I was trying to do was to date the earlier age of Yurio we can be sure he was already able to do quads. Spoiler for how I infered it:
In any case, the point I was trying to underline is that the story set Yurio as a gifted athlete on par with Vicktor from the very early stages, in comparison to Yuri that is supposed to be talentless. Or so we have been told and his career, and skills seems to be a proof of it, until now that they started their personal journey. So, what is the problem? It's mental. That's my whole point about Yurio. For Yuri is that he couldn't conform himself to the society. Well, that's how I've interpreted things so far at least. Well, I can't really comment on it. Personally after reading the analysis of Karice and her links I can say that Yuri won the contest, even if at first I founded Yurio the better one. But I guess it was because I connected more with his performance, all the build up of Yurio practically exploded during his performance and it was emotional (for me) seeing him so vulnerable. He is really a kitten!!
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Last edited by Arya; 2016-10-25 at 04:35. Reason: typos |
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2016-10-25, 06:07 | Link #171 | ||
さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん
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@Arya Most of not all of the issues you've raise can be addressed, but it would require me to draw on things that I've picked up from following the sport for over two years now. Don't get me wrong - I'm a baby fan in the grand scheme of things. But even then, I've probably watched something like 40 hours of skating over the last two years, sometimes looking for several different TV commentaries on the same performance (e.g. British Eurosports, NBC, CBC - I've even listened to Japanese commentators). I've also read and watched interviews with skaters, coaches and choreographers. Information is scattered across all of these sources, and I simply don't have the time to pull them together for discussion here. From what I can see, anime fans who only pay attention to figure skating once every four years (if at all) may need more of a primer on the sport. I've been hoping that the show will explain some of these things - maybe they will in episode 4, since it seems to be about Victor and Yuri working on his free program... In any case, it's just not something I feel works in the discussion format here, because there is so much information involved. So I do have to pull out.
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2016-10-25, 10:49 | Link #172 |
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@karice67: I hope too they will address some points along the road, that would be interesting.
Anyways, I'm indeed an anime viewer first and foremost, and on that I ground my own interpretation. And it's not a problem if I'll be proven wrong (as far as the explanation makes sense and doesn't contradict itself). What I think is that a good narrative should not delegate its role to something so unintelligible to require a senior expert in the field, as you are suggesting, to be explained. Between that and the narrative itself I will always choose the latter no matter how wrong I'll be. (so if Yuri asks to Yurio to be taught at something, or all the other details the show provided, I will interpret it as it, at face value if not implied otherwise). That's just to explain my approach, that in this case is at the exact opposite of yours and for that reason it's hard to find a common ground. Well, that's it. I've said everything I had to say on the matter for now. I just hope the story keeps delivering as it has been doing until now not going off along some dangerous tangents.
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2016-10-25, 11:22 | Link #173 |
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An analysis of the two skating programs: http://lazuliblade.tumblr.com/post/1...g-the-programs
tl;dr From a technical analysis with knowledge of how scores are calculated, Yuuri definitely deserved his win. I'm quite amazed how much the animation team did their homework. |
2016-10-25, 11:53 | Link #174 | |
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2016-10-26, 05:00 | Link #177 | |
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2016-10-26, 06:32 | Link #179 | |
さっく♥ゆうきゃん♥ほそやん
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And in that context, then Victor telling Yuuri to do "basic practice" (translated as "the basics") means that he wants Yuuri to work on elements like jumps (as well as spins and footwork), so that he can show Victor what he can do. It makes sense, because Victor can only teach one person his routine at a time. It also makes sense for Yuuri to ask Yurio about better technique (NOT to teach him the jump in the first place, which he already knows how to do). As you can imagine, trying to explain this kind of thing for each and every little misunderstanding would be a little...frustrating, let's say.
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2016-10-26, 09:58 | Link #180 | |
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Besides, doing it via 3D graphics is an entirely different process. Motion tracking is the normal way to do it and I don't see why they'd bother with rotoscoping so your example is a strange one. |
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figure skating, sports |
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