Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 23 Discussion / Poll

[Var]

Originally Posted by Tendou88

í hope we will see lockoff in action on the upcoming two episodes.
i wonder if they will have the same voice actor for him and i dont want them to change.

Unlikely on many levels. Lockoff/Lyle has not been shown to have any backing in military or piloting abilities. Pretty sure Lockon did a lot of what he did to make sure his brother would have a good world, so bringing him somewhat defeats the reason for Lockon dieing. And finally... time. These episodes have spanned about... a few days of constant fighting. There's no time for CB to breathe let alone go hunting for recruits.

[Phantom-Takaya]

I'd have to agree with Var. Time's going to be a factor before someone takes over piloting Dynames IF Dynames ever comes back. We know it's lost limbs, but we don't know the complete detail of the damages it received.

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young

Um, yeah. They did. She says "I am merely a believer in the ideals of Aeolia Scehenberg. Nothing more, nothing less." That was back when she met the Thrones in their base, IIRC. It's been established that she's a firm believer in CB, to the point of being an ideologue.

That's what I originally thought, but I started to think I missed something in that particular scene or episode when Kang said otherwise. So, taking Aeolia's introductory speech in regards to Celestial Being's intent at face value, it sounds like he's aiming for peace through worldwide unification by using armed intervention. With that in mind and what I originally was referring to, Wang would realise that her belief in the ideal won't come into reality through the Thrones since Nena's the only one left, unless maybe she directs Nena to the crew so that Celestial Being would have added strength as a whole. After all, Aeolia's recent recording did say he's entrusting his ideals on the crew.

[StratoSpear]

There's one thing that I still don't understand.... If GN-Xs can't be harmed by a normal GN beam shot(Dynames' sniper rifle)... Then how could a stray asteroid behead Patrick's GN-X?

Not to mention that it's quite embarrassing for a superior mobile suit to be owned by a rock....
Note: Nu Gundam was not owned by a rock... It went fireworks due to PsycoCommu overload and an overdose of atmospheric heat...

[Kaioshin Sama]

Gundam 00 Episode 23 is up.

One thing I will mention here as well is the sudden realization of the symbolism in the ending that I had:

It all starts off very happy as Lockon is giving Setsuna a haircut and watching over the rest of the Meister’s as they prepare meals for the group. Suddenly though the scissors symbolizing his grooming of Setsuna into a more focuses individual fall….kind of like he’s no longer there to hold them, and the river turns to blood. Lockon’s blood. Now all the Meisters are seen grieving as a feather shrivels up (Symbolizing Lockon's life fading away) and Lockon seems to hang his head in shame as if he feels he has failed them and the world. In the end we see Setsuna casting off his apron in bold determination as if his grooming is finished and he’s ready to let go of Lockon’s presence as a mentor and step out on his own to hopefully change the world. The very last thing we see though are the barber scissors sitting next to Haro, symbolizing that Haro is keeping Lockon’s legacy and memories close to him still so that while they are no longer a corporeal part of this world, they are not forgotten.

[Phantom-Takaya]

A fifth possible, though quite unlikely, replacement for Lockon came to mind. Haro. This possibility has a 99% chance of not happening, but it would be a bit in the humorous side if the opponents find out that they've been defeated by Haro.

[rpgman1]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama

Gundam 00 Episode 23 is up.

One thing I will mention here as well is the sudden realization of the symbolism in the ending that I had:

It all starts off very happy as Lockon is giving Setsuna a haircut and watching over the rest of the Meister’s as they prepare meals for the group. Suddenly though the scissors symbolizing his grooming of Setsuna into a more focuses individual fall….kind of like he’s no longer there to hold them, and the river turns to blood. Lockon’s blood. Now all the Meisters are seen grieving as a feather shrivels up (Symbolizing Lockon's life fading away) and Lockon seems to hang his head in shame as if he feels he has failed them and the world. In the end we see Setsuna casting off his apron in bold determination as if his grooming is finished and he’s ready to let go of Lockon’s presence as a mentor and step out on his own to hopefully change the world. The very last thing we see though are the barber scissors sitting next to Haro, symbolizing that Haro is keeping Lockon’s legacy and memories close to him still so that while they are no longer a corporeal part of this world, they are not forgotten.

Japanese people were always deep about symbolism and making them simple like their art and poetry. Setsuna will fulfill what Lockon has always wanted and make changes to himself as well. After all, he is the youngest Meister and will still be developed into Season 2. Right now, he is just full of emotions that he doesn't understand very well.

[Mangaka-chan]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama

Gundam 00 Episode 23 is up.

One thing I will mention here as well is the sudden realization of the symbolism in the ending that I had:

It all starts off very happy as Lockon is giving Setsuna a haircut and watching over the rest of the Meister’s as they prepare meals for the group. Suddenly though the scissors symbolizing his grooming of Setsuna into a more focuses individual fall….kind of like he’s no longer there to hold them, and the river turns to blood. Lockon’s blood. Now all the Meisters are seen grieving as a feather shrivels up (Symbolizing Lockon's life fading away) and Lockon seems to hang his head in shame as if he feels he has failed them and the world. In the end we see Setsuna casting off his apron in bold determination as if his grooming is finished and he’s ready to let go of Lockon’s presence as a mentor and step out on his own to hopefully change the world. The very last thing we see though are the barber scissors sitting next to Haro, symbolizing that Haro is keeping Lockon’s legacy and memories close to him still so that while they are no longer a corporeal part of this world, they are not forgotten.

Mm, I don't quite agree with that assessment of the ED though there is definitely a lot of symbolism. I too see the dropped scissors as a symbol of Lockon's death, but the following animation of Tieria and Allelujah I tend to match more with the lyrics that is sung at that moment. For Tieria especially, because the lyrics are: "Even if you show courage and pretend to be strong/You can't live all alone". Lockon pointed out in epi 22 that Tieria appears strong but is fragile inside. As for Allelujah I see it as implying he cannot come to terms with who he is (i.e. Hallelujah) so he can't bear to look in the mirror. For Lockon's portion I see it as him grieving over the destruction of him home and family, and feeling powerless and frustrated.

I think the feather is a sign of hope, but while it is burned and seemingly destroyed it in fact becomes sparks of GN particle that brings new hope to people. The reason why I say this is because everyone looks up from their grief (Marina, Louise) when they notice the light of the GN particles. And lastly the four meisters gaze up at what appears to be a green bird, presumably formed from the GN particles earlier, and Setsuna smiles. The bird I think symbolizes a dove of peace, and it represents the ideal that Setsuna (and the other meisters) are trying to achieve.

P.S. I love your weekly blog review of 00. Reading it helps me further my own understanding of the show and it’s nice to read a review that actually shares the same opinion of the show that I have.

[LoweGear]

Originally Posted by StratoSpear

There's one thing that I still don't understand.... If GN-Xs can't be harmed by a normal GN beam shot(Dynames' sniper rifle)... Then how could a stray asteroid behead Patrick's GN-X?

If the GN-X's use the same armor as the Gundams (probably GN Composite Armor), then it's quite easy for them to tank beam shots.

On the other hand, even armor like that won't stop you getting beheaded by a rock. You'll notice that the head snapped at the neck, which is always a weak part of any humanoid MS.

A comparison: An armored knight may be immune to arrows, but it doesn't mean you can't do him in by twisting his neck hard.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by LoweGear

If the GN-X's use the same armor as the Gundams (probably GN Composite Armor), then it's quite easy for them to tank beam shots.

On the other hand, even armor like that won't stop you getting beheaded by a rock. You'll notice that the head snapped at the neck, which is always a weak part of any humanoid MS.

A comparison: An armored knight may be immune to arrows, but it doesn't mean you can't do him in by twisting his neck hard.

Dynames lots its arm the same way. The force of the impact of the GN-X severed its arm.

[LightningZERO]

I see, I've always wondering how the heck Darly managed to severe Dynames's arm while his GN-X didn't draw its beam saber

[CombiHenge]

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young

Actually, the HRL troops were retreating before trans-am ran out for Kyrios.

Originally Posted by AlphaDragoon

Yeah. Sergei and Soma got owned by Trans-Am Kyrios and took off just as it was winding down.

Yeah, I agree, you are both correct in pointing out that the UN (HRL aligned) forces were 'getting (heavily) owned' and it is not exactly clear on what basis they retreated. The observation was at that point of time, GN Arms Dynames had broken through the UN line. It may well have been because the lead units were incapacitated, and Trans-Am Kyrios was just toying with them.

Keeping in mind, that only us as the viewer (and CB of course) know that the Trans-Am has a time limit... from the UN perspective, they do not know this. If I were Sergei, i'd be very worried - powered up Gundams as the foe and even bringing the GN-X squad back in operational condition brings up the question - how do you beat them?

[FireChick]

I just finished this episode and...LOCKON YOU BAKAYARO!!! How could you...well, Bah!!

Spoiler:

Lockon died!!! You baka! Baka baka baka! Don't die you...! You...! I guess Amy is his younger sister. Awww! Lockon was so cute then too!

Again...WHY DO I NOT CRY AT SAD ANIME LIKE THIS??!! I wanna cry!! Oh yeah. I have a question. Who's this Lyle that he mentioned? *gasp* could it be...?

[kucigaromeo]

Can't help comparing this episode with Gurren Lagann episode 8

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by FireChick

Oh yeah. I have a question. Who's this Lyle that he mentioned? *gasp* could it be...?

Its his brother.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Mangaka-chan

Mm, I don't quite agree with that assessment of the ED though there is definitely a lot of symbolism. I too see the dropped scissors as a symbol of Lockon's death, but the following animation of Tieria and Allelujah I tend to match more with the lyrics that is sung at that moment. For Tieria especially, because the lyrics are: "Even if you show courage and pretend to be strong/You can't live all alone". Lockon pointed out in epi 22 that Tieria appears strong but is fragile inside. As for Allelujah I see it as implying he cannot come to terms with who he is (i.e. Hallelujah) so he can't bear to look in the mirror. For Lockon's portion I see it as him grieving over the destruction of him home and family, and feeling powerless and frustrated.

I think the feather is a sign of hope, but while it is burned and seemingly destroyed it in fact becomes sparks of GN particle that brings new hope to people. The reason why I say this is because everyone looks up from their grief (Marina, Louise) when they notice the light of the GN particles. And lastly the four meisters gaze up at what appears to be a green bird, presumably formed from the GN particles earlier, and Setsuna smiles. The bird I think symbolizes a dove of peace, and it represents the ideal that Setsuna (and the other meisters) are trying to achieve.

P.S. I love your weekly blog review of 00. Reading it helps me further my own understanding of the show and it’s nice to read a review that actually shares the same opinion of the show that I have.

What, you mean a review that doesn't just immediately go into a predetermined bashing fest of the show? Yeah I find it much more rewarding to take an in-depth look at the show then to stroke my ego by saying why I think it's beneath me. Well unless I really feel it is in which case I probably wouldn't be blogging it. The way I look at it is that I'm just filling a void a guy who genuinely loves mecha in a blogging community that seems to predominantly feel it's a waste of time or an auto-fail theme. To quote Montreal Comedian John Pinette, "I say nay nay".

Anyway, your analysis works too. I'm sure there are a lot that work. I especially like how you see the GN Particle bird as a dove of peace and that's it's the Gundams that will create that bird with their power. The GN Particle is used to symbolize a lot of things I think to the point where it seems like they take on a life of their own. The bird's feather becoming GN Particles and then a forming into a bird kind of evokes the image of a Phoenix and I also think along with Lockon's death that it has something to do with the "Absolute destruction and Rebirth" that Mishizuma talked about in that interview. This season is going to end on a depressing note I imagine, but he wants us to remember through the ending that something good will eventually come out of it.

[Owaranai Destiny]

Finally got down to watching the episode, since my internet was down for a few days.

This has got to be the best episode so far. The action was there and considerably well animated, and whoever said that Lockon was crap at melee should probably have eaten their words by now. The emotional parts belong to the final moments of the episode, and I don't see their reactions to be contrived in any way or generic, i.e. having the entire crew crying. Instead, we see shocked and stunned faces as well as one holding in the urge to cry out (Sumeragi). Setsuna's, though, has a look of pure hatred. By the standards of plot device, Ali Al Sarches should be alive, and the one going to take revenge will be one of the Meisters and Setsuna definitely has the highest chance for that. It simply wouldn't do for a story to have the protagonist bow out in any fashion without having getting rid of his ghosts that haunted him throughout the entire season.

Lockon Stratos, defiant to the end. He has been the most interesting character, having a guilt complex, knowing that he was also a hypocrite in fighting for his own reasons. No self-righteousness in him aside from the fact that he knows what he wants, and will go all out to get it.

As much as I want him dead now, Ali is still indeed the veteran on the battlefield. With mere observation from Dynames' movement, he could already tell how the pilot was disadvantaged. Hard to imagine, yes, but it serves to show that Lockon was no pushover, and that he's going to be that slippery of an opponent to fight for the remaining Meisters.

[mougrim]

Perhaps in next episode we will see arch-villain Alehandro in his own mobile suit... or in mobile armor. I wonder if lifespan of Alehandro in this MA will be longer then Cruze on Providence

[Lendial]

does he have any piloting skills? seems to me like some greedy bastard with cliche world domination fetish.

[mougrim]

I sure he don't But main villain of mecha must have mobile suit And his mecha painted gold too, as his gun

[ShiniIllumi]

After watching Ep23, for some odd reason, I don't think Lockon is dead. O_o maybe it's cause I think back to other gundam series and how no matter what the pilot goes through (Recent would be Heero/Trowa/Kira) they always seem to live >.>;

<.<; at least, I'm hoping my fav pilot lives. He needs to take care of Feldt.