(L) Re:Creators

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Botan_TM

It's not a place to argue about Muslims and so what is properly applied or nor, so I just drop a link about mentioned philosophical theory: Occasionalism.

Good. Keep your argument theological and philosophical. Don't apply a broad stroke and claimed that Islamic faith caused its people to become technologically and scientifically backwards compared to other people coz that's simply not true (it depends on so many other factors).

[DemonneoPT]

Originally Posted by Endscape

Can you imagine the shitstorm if it actually happened though? Everyone would be arguing like mad when their favourite character lost.

Originally Posted by cabman11

No you're wrong. It would be a shit Fest the likes of which has never been seen. The Internet would be divided like no other time in recent history. Every thread would be a literal war zone

Oh yeah, silly me. I forgot the anime community can go full fanboy over such things similar to what happens in the waifu wars..lol. If even the authors themselves had issues with it, would be indeed a total chaos between the fans too. You guys are right
I would love to see a similar concept to happen some day tho. I don't really care who wins or lose as long as it's properly explained and makes sense with the lore just like in every battle anime i watch.

[RDNexus]

Originally Posted by DemonneoPT

Oh yeah, silly me. I forgot the anime community can go full fanboy over such things similar to what happens in the waifu wars..lol. If even the authors themselves had issues with it, would be indeed a total chaos between the fans too. You guys are right
I would love to see a similar concept to happen some day tho. I don't really care who wins or lose as long as it's properly explained and makes sense with the lore just like in every battle anime i watch.

Yeah, I thought the same

[Galaxian]

Am I the only one thinking that the male lead will end up being the white haired girl's creator?

[bakato]

Originally Posted by Galaxian

Am I the only one thinking that the male lead will end up being the white haired girl's creator?

I already said that.

[Cosmic Eagle]

How the heck did a thread on a show about characters and their authors/creators/ script writers end up with parallels to religion being made when there is no similarity at all between both concepts.....like one is so much more complex than the other which, as entertainment, is usually much more straightforward

[Botan_TM]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

How the heck did a thread on a show about characters and their authors/creators/ script writers end up with parallels to religion being made when there is no similarity at all between both concepts.....like one is so much more complex than the other which, as entertainment, is usually much more straightforward

I got carried away a bit
But I agree it is enough of it.

[Magewolf]

Originally Posted by Endscape

Can you imagine the shitstorm if it actually happened though? Everyone would be arguing like mad when their favourite character lost.

It would be glorious. Even better then the Color Wars back in the day.

[bakato]

Originally Posted by Botan_TM

I would rather say, that your thinking is so big that you are omitting important details and falls into false dilemma.
Firstly, author decide how he writes a story, he may write a story, where cause and effect to not exist, because things every time are decided by god (such philosophy developed at some point in Muslim world, causing it to fall behind West in development). But as we know now, such things like law of nature exist. So analogy may not hold a point here, if God self-restraint himself.
Aside that, you need to decide what free will is, and change point of view to a being, which exist in such world. If free will for you means, that to have power to determine you existence and northing else can predetermine your "settings" without your control, then in fact unless something is an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent being, it cant have a free will. With such thinking, even if such being do not exist, but world simply exist with law of nature created randomly, then I still do not have a free will, because my whole life was already determined during Big Bang, but without any being backing that. In such case it doesn't matter, if omnipotent god exist or not, when talking about existence of free will, so discussions about god deciding about our life is pointless by default, because our life is determined either way.
I disagree with such definition of free will, for me free will means, that being can make a decisions based on collected informations, experience and inborn characteristics, then I have a free will, in case when I want a apple, but something forcefully remove that thought from my existence, then my free will is taken away.
The only way to created a conflict between my free will and God free will would be to add to my "settings" a confirmed information, what God wills and decide about my actions, so I may oppose it. Unless this happen, from my point of view, there is no intervention into my natural state and I have free will.

Another thing comes together with probabilistic nature of physical phenomena at atomic scales, described in quantum mechanics. Maybe God created a spectrum of infinite possibilities, and so had given us part of his free will, but aside that, he knows a outcome? Although that's would be a paradox, but from the other hand, do he cared about what happens and what outcome would be? What, if he let some things just be randomly and accepted results? Then off course you may argue back, that god by deciding about letting things be randomly or not determined world anyway, but with your thinking free will simply do not exist whether god or Bing Bang created us.

Of course all of that assuming, that omnipotent creator and creations and completely separated disconnect things, because if not, then things became even more interesting.

PS. I'm complete amateur in philosophy.

I can see that. I don't understand what you're saying.

Free will is choice. As you say, free will only exists for creators or unless a creator does not exist.

Human science has no place in this argument.

Try to keep track of the conversation. We're talking about the circumstances in this show. For these characters, there is no longer any question of the existence of a creator. It's fact.

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

How the heck did a thread on a show about characters and their authors/creators/ script writers end up with parallels to religion being made when there is no similarity at all between both concepts.....like one is so much more complex than the other which, as entertainment, is usually much more straightforward

I hope that was a rhetorical question because the thread's only 6 pages and you only needed to read my post, but if it wasn't I'll summarize. The fictional characters in this show came to life and learned that they're fictional. They are confronted by the fact that their circumstances, every thought they ever had, every choice they ever made, and pretty much everything they've ever known up until they came to life was scripted by someone else, their creator. Obviously, this invalidates any agency or free will they thought they had. I bring up theology to point out that monotheistic religions that subscribe to an omnipotent, omniscient creator pretty much says the same thing as this show. I, like all of you, look forward to this show's answer tot his existential crisis.

On another note, does anyone know what that guy who's car they stole was saying? BIT, MDY, gakuburu?

[Alhazred]

Originally Posted by bakato

On another note, does anyone know what that guy who's car they stole was saying? BIT, MDY, gakuburu?

BTI may just be a veiled reference to the three-letter acronyms that car makers are so fond of sticking on their products, since he was talking about buying a car right after the test drive. For the other two, the best i can tell is that they are the japanese equivalent of twitter/netspeak, like LOL or SMH. The only reference i can find for MDY indicates that it's short for "Most Dame Yukkuri" or "The Worst Yukkuri," which may be a reference to the Toho Yukkuri meme. The only available reference is from nikonikopedia. GKBR means, "I crawl under a rock and shiver in terror now."

[Draco Spirit]

I actually put this fairly low on my first episode watch list and I finally get round to watching it tonight...and it's a keeper for sure!

It most reminds me of Fate/Night UBW so far. Good animation values and music, totally OP characters and a fairly serous tone for the most part. The opening was interesting (media and a suicide?) the main arc was full of nicely written scenes (female mechafighter freaking out at -just- the right level) and a ending that showed they can do long dialogue and grounded scenes just as well as OTT fights.

I want to see how this goes for sure.

[Greenish Growth]

If other "fictional" characters are going to be showing up, then whoever is knowledgeable on a lot of games/manga/novels could become an information resource. Or at least...they would be able to accomplish more things knowing that stuff.

EDIT:

What was that guy saying when they were stealing his car?

[Applehell]

^
I suspect if anything that will be the MC's main role. Kinda of like in F/SN where the masters main benefits other than providing mana was giving a face to unkown enemy servants. Knowledge of their legends was crucial in those battles and it could very likely be similar case here.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by bakato

I hope that was a rhetorical question because the thread's only 6 pages and you only needed to read my post, but if it wasn't I'll summarize. The fictional characters in this show came to life and learned that they're fictional. They are confronted by the fact that their circumstances, every thought they ever had, every choice they ever made, and pretty much everything they've ever known up until they came to life was scripted by someone else, their creator. Obviously, this invalidates any agency or free will they thought they had. I bring up theology to point out that monotheistic religions that subscribe to an omnipotent, omniscient creator pretty much says the same thing as this show. I, like all of you, look forward to this show's answer tot his existential crisis.

It's not the same thing in the first place though. Theology's issues of free will and omniscience isn't as simple as a character following a script

[Deim |Envy| Astaroth]

With the debate about free wil and predestination, let me be the first to point out the writer/director give the MC the role of a "Narrator" to justifies his lack of characterization and to makes him a tool for plot exposition.

[bakato]

Originally Posted by Applehell

^
I suspect if anything that will be the MC's main role. Kinda of like in F/SN where the masters main benefits other than providing mana was giving a face to unkown enemy servants. Knowledge of their legends was crucial in those battles and it could very likely be similar case here.

That's an interesting idea.

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

It's not the same thing in the first place though. Theology's issues of free will and omniscience isn't as simple as a character following a script

For these characters, its much more absolute. they weren't even real until now, much less free.

Originally Posted by Deim |Envy| Astaroth

With the debate about free wil and predestination, let me be the first to point out the writer/director give the MC the role of a "Narrator" to justifies his lack of characterization and to makes him a tool for plot exposition.

We're talking about the creators of the ficitonal characters that came to life.

[LevelSeven]

Originally Posted by DemonneoPT

Oh yeah, silly me. I forgot the anime community can go full fanboy over such things similar to what happens in the waifu wars..lol. If even the authors themselves had issues with it, would be indeed a total chaos between the fans too. You guys are right
I would love to see a similar concept to happen some day tho. I don't really care who wins or lose as long as it's properly explained and makes sense with the lore just like in every battle anime i watch.

but to be honest,

no matter who wins and who loses, wouldnt each episode have incredible amounts of people watching??

i cant imagine any series that is easier to write and with a more profitable potential than a anime about various anime/manga/LN characters kicking/punching the living sh*t out of each other

EDIT:

ep1

forgot to talk about the episode,

really nice so far, the animation is really great but i wonder what is going on...

i personally would have tried to bring superman to this world or dr.manhatten, would be nice to have them force the world into peace

[Triple_R]

Very good first episode. The action scenes are very fun to watch, and I love the character design and overall style of Selesia. I also like Selesia's personality so far.

Selesia's reaction to cars was a very fun scene. It showed fitting comedic cleverness for a show with this sort of premise guiding it (I literally loled at the window wiper 'weapon' bit ). It also reminded me of how Fate/Series' Saber reacted to driving a car, which is probably a good thing for a variety of reasons.

This show's premise offers a lot of potential, a lot of potential for wild fun and also some potential to be truly thought-provoking. But it also offers a lot of potential pitfalls and it's going to be interesting to see if Re:Creators can avoid most or all of those pitfalls.

Now, Episode 1 certainly has its flaws, but I think most of them are actually to the show's benefit (so far), as I'll explain in a bit. However, at least one flaw was a genuinely bad Director decision.

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

THAT IS NOT HOW GLASSES WORK. Hell, that is not how eyes work, period.

Seriously, what was with that??! It was so incredibly stupid. Did no-one who worked on the animation in that segment have eyes? Or at least any experience with wearing glasses? Did no-one say "wait, what are we doing? this is stupid"...??

As someone who wears glasses, I can say that yes, you're right. That one bit was baaad. I hope we don't get that type of perspective shot often in this show, lol.

On the other hand...

Also, all those pretentious monologues, holy crap.

You're right. Some of the dialogue from the character characters* was really cheesy and over-the-top in its attempt to sound smart and sophisticated and all high-falutin' philosophical. But then, isn't that a common flaw in many anime shows?

Given Re:Creators' premise, I think it's best if its character characters reflect real world anime characters... warts and all. And let's be honest, a lot of anime shows and JRPGs have these long-winded kinda pretentious kinda chuunibyou-esque monologuing going on. It would actually be a little weird and even a little self-defeating if all of the character characters in this show talked in a normal easy-to-understand way. Because, like it or not, that's not anime. Anime is loaded with hammy characters, and chuunibyou characters.

Now, you can take this too far. The show still has to be entertaining at a basic level. But this is what the flashy audiovisuals and Selesia is for. And hopefully some other characters later on will provide some balance to our more monologue/philosophizing characters.

All of the above being said, this show might need a down-to-Earth keeping-it-real guy to kinda cut through the crap at some point.


Now, as for the MC... yeah, he's pretty dull. But he's dull in an inoffensive way, so it's not like he makes me rage or anything. I'm actually kinda glad he's a little dull, because this story isn't about him. He's just a stand-in for Joe Average Anime fan. This story is about popular anime characters come to life, learning about the true source of their existence, and acting upon that knowledge. This story is about them, so maybe it's actually good that we don't have a highly entertaining MC that could distract from what the story is really about.

Anyway, Re:Creators is looking good so far! If nothing else, it'll probably be a fun show to talk about.

Originally Posted by SPARTAN 119

Hmmm... interesting concept. Reminds me of a joke I once made on another thread about Akemi Homura coming into reality and holding Urobuchi at gunpoint demanding a good end XD.

If Re:Creators' premise was to unfold in real life, I have my doubts Gen Urobuchi would survive a week. It's actually kinda funny to think of Akemi Homura, Sayaka Miki, Slaine Troyard, and various Psycho-Pass characters all threatening to kill him for his horrible misdeeds, ha ha!


* I hope I can eventually come up with a better way of putting this, but I can't think of anything better than character characters for now, lol. Hopefully people get what I mean by this.

[IceHism]

Originally Posted by LevelSeven

but to be honest,

no matter who wins and who loses, wouldnt each episode have incredible amounts of people watching??

i cant imagine any series that is easier to write and with a more profitable potential than a anime about various anime/manga/LN characters kicking/punching the living sh*t out of each other

EDIT:

ep1

forgot to talk about the episode,

really nice so far, the animation is really great but i wonder what is going on...

i personally would have tried to bring superman to this world or dr.manhatten, would be nice to have them force the world into peace

I doubt it would be that profitable cause licensing fees.

[LevelSeven]

Originally Posted by IceHism

I doubt it would be that profitable cause licensing fees.

can they become that expensive?

one season = 13 ep,

each ep features 2 to 3 chars,

so basically 26 to 39 license fees, and with the authors agreeing i dont think the price could become that high