Why is Gundam Seed Destiny so controversial?

[Demongod86]

Tolle was not killed by Athrun in SEED. Athrun SEEDed only after Kira did only after Tolle got Tolled.

[dom33]

Originally Posted by Demongod86

Why are the dom pilots still alive? Because of teamwork.
Heine could have returned? How? Holding his torso in his disembodied forearms? TMR COULD ONLY WORK ON SO MANY EPISODES, OKAY? THE MOMENT TMR SAYS "GTG PPLZ" his character DIES. Or would you just have Heine stick around playing Mr. Mute?
Rey could have lived with pills, or did you forget about all of Rau's suffering? He even said "I DON'T HAVE LONG TO LIVE, SHINN, AFTER ALL, I AM A CLONE."
Talia might have been angry at Durandall, but above that anger she was in love with him. Or just because a husband and wife fight they have to instantly divorce?

Kira: Yes, he's a god-moder...so what do you call Shinn doing in episode 38 five tims over what he and Kira needed an entire episode 32 to do together? That's not god-mode? What about Rey just completely obliterating the Girty Lue and DBZing off Jibril? Hmmm, taking down a battleship in all of thirty seconds with a single mobile suit...not godmoding at all!
Cagalli: Let's see you try to run a country. Go ahead. We'll make a country and call it dom33's country, and give it a population of a small town. Try to make everyone happy...let alone an entire country, one that is very influential and is a target by many political forces. As for a boy, that was the POINT. She is a tomboy.
Lacus: tell me, does she actually DO something besides covert operations? No. So she better be DAMN GOOD at what she does to be the main character's girlfriend.
Athrun: Backstabber? Oh gee, you wouldn't get the hell out if someone showed you that you were being spied on, and that the higher-ups were suspicious of you, then having soldiers knock on your door? Really, you'd just open the door and say "come on in, soldiers, want to have some tea? Oh, the chairman wanted me eliminated? Well, here's my face, feel free to shoot anytime!"
Andrew: Or starship captain.
Murrue: Okay, we get it, you're a hopeless Shinn fanboy. If Shinn wins, it's because of skill as a pilot and strategy, never mind turning five destroys into grunts. If Kira or the Tri-Ships-Alliance win, IT MUST BE A PLOT DEVICE! Here's a hint, the only reason Kira lost in ep 34 was that Fukuda needed to have a good reason to roll out Strike Freedom. Unless you can provide me with a better reason.
Mwu: Well, they REALLY weren't making much of a big deal about his death. GS 49: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, MWUUUUUUUUU! LOHENGRIN, FIRE!!! And then we forgot about the entire ordeal. Or if Neo wasn't Mwu, what would you have done with him? All of his extended are dead, the EA army is utterly no match for one little ship and its 3 gundams, is he just going to sit back and say "ah, shit, oh well?" and proceed to eat Destiny's cannon?

You REALLY have no idea what it takes to put an anime or any form of writing together, do you dom33? In fact, here's a little challenge: to show you know a SHRED about storytelling, write a 5000 word original short story about anything you like and post it somewhere people can see it. No need to develop characters too much, just a quick one-event blurb to make us realize you know something about the elements of plot and characterization.

Because right now, you are simply unable to even form grammatically correct sentences. Am I--or is anybody else--supposed to take you seriously?

i'll leave sniper-sensei to deal with this.and i'll take on your challenge,by the way you complain about me saying tsa win via plotdevices yet say shinn won with plotdevices in ep34 so you see what i'm saying right?

[Ryuujin]

Originally Posted by Demongod86

Tolle was not killed by Athrun in SEED.

Athrun did kill Tolle, with that ludicrously lucky shield throw...

[Nightengale]

Originally Posted by Ryuujin

Athrun did kill Tolle, with that ludicrously lucky shield throw...

He was saying that Athrun wasn't in SEED mode when he killed Tolle.

[Eidolon Sniper]

Athrun threw that shield in SEED mode, I remember thinking how creepy he looked when he did that...>.<

[wingdarkness]

^He looked alot like Shinn...Totally pi$$ed with one goal in mind...Kill whatever hindered his goal...Unfortuanatley Tolle forgot to practice the bonus level...

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

^He looked alot like Shinn...Totally pi$$ed with one goal in mind...Kill whatever hindered his goal...

Exactly another point that's not as talked about (specifically) where GSD fails. Athrun in that episode was indeed much like Shinn, so he should have been going "Shinn, I know what it's like!" or something like that in PHASE 33 before Shinn "killed" Kira. Even in PHASE 35 or 36 it would'nt have been entirely too late, but nope, he just goes and does "GRAAARGH!!!" *punch* on Shinn in 35 when he had the chance to talk Shinn out of fighting Kira calmy in PHASE 33. >.> He hardly tried to talk Shinn out of it in 33, the circumstances of Impulse vs Freedom in 34, were very much identical to Strike vs Aegis in SEED 30 including Kira being the enemy. Athrun could have smacked down Rey, but he just shut up. >.>

[wingdarkness]

^If only FREEDOM vs. IMPULSE could've lived up to the standard STRIKE vs. AEGIS set...It was a good battle, but IMO far from great, because the fight had no soul...Just two model kits fighting one another...

[Eclipze]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

^If only FREEDOM vs. IMPULSE could've lived up to the standard STRIKE vs. AEGIS set...It was a good battle, but IMO far from great, because the fight had no soul...Just two model kits fighting one another...

Technically, it was one gundam model kit chasing the other.

[Eidolon Sniper]

Originally Posted by Demongod86

Why are the dom pilots still alive? Because of teamwork.

That's just about the most ridiculous display of teamwork I have ever seen. How many times could that orange haired woman say "for Lacus-sama!" before doing that very spectacular Power Rangers dive into the poor hapless grunts?

The fact that they are also members of the Lacus Brigade begs no question as to why too, REALLY.

Heine could have returned? How? Holding his torso in his disembodied forearms? TMR COULD ONLY WORK ON SO MANY EPISODES, OKAY? THE MOMENT TMR SAYS "GTG PPLZ" his character DIES. Or would you just have Heine stick around playing Mr. Mute?

Seriously, what is the purpose of introducing a character when you're only going to kill him off after 3 episodes? Heine's character got SO much more development than Kira and his Love Union squeezed into those 3 eps.

If Heine lived, GSD could've taken a different, more likable route (in my opinion).

Rey could have lived with pills, or did you forget about all of Rau's suffering? He even said "I DON'T HAVE LONG TO LIVE, SHINN, AFTER ALL, I AM A CLONE."

I don't see what you're trying to get at here.

Shinn looked really worried, sad and helpless to help Rey. It's not as if we completely forgot about Rau's suffering. But it does not mean that all pill popping people should be wiped from the face of the planet just because of that. His character was just totally wasted, like Shinn's.

Talia might have been angry at Durandall, but above that anger she was in love with him. Or just because a husband and wife fight they have to instantly divorce?

We are all fools in love, aren't we?

Kira: Yes, he's a god-moder...so what do you call Shinn doing in episode 38 five tims over what he and Kira needed an entire episode 32 to do together? That's not god-mode? What about Rey just completely obliterating the Girty Lue and DBZing off Jibril? Hmmm, taking down a battleship in all of thirty seconds with a single mobile suit...not godmoding at all!

The fact remains that it was explained why Shinn had gotten to that level whereas Kira's GOD moding wasn't thoroughly explained. Just because Lacus gave him a cool new toy to play with instantly made him out to the GOD of CE and it's just not right. And please remember that given Kira's situation a series ago, Shinn had too much of the enemy coming at him in waves, who want him dead. Kira only had ZAFT to deal with back then. Shinn has EA, Orb and the Archangel plus its ridiculous GOD suit, Freedom. And they were all out for Minerva's hide. And also remember that the Minerva crew were all tossed into one battle situation after the other, each one even more horrid than the last. They were also going on limited supplies (after that very hasty trip out of Orb, it's pretty much a no-man's land for them until they reached Carpentaria and it's not just regular grunts they were dealing with, too). It's pretty much understood why Shinn has to go off like a Berserker.

Cagalli: Let's see you try to run a country. Go ahead. We'll make a country and call it dom33's country, and give it a population of a small town. Try to make everyone happy...let alone an entire country, one that is very influential and is a target by many political forces. As for a boy, that was the POINT. She is a tomboy.

It's not about Cagalli. It's her steadfast belief in her father's ideals, the very same ideals that burned down Orb a series ago, then in GSD. It's pretty unreal to think of a country running solely on ideals which is very in real world sense. They won't survive, even if their leader is an 18 year old tomboy as you say, Demongod.

Lacus: tell me, does she actually DO something besides covert operations? No. So she better be DAMN GOOD at what she does to be the main character's girlfriend.

It was shown that she actually didn't do anything at all, just make nonsensical speeches and make the world go round at the sound of her voice and sparkle of her magical pink pixie dust. Fukuda was the one who only made it that way. Remember, we had no idea in hell WTF Terminal was until Lacus got assassinated by the "Coordinator" team sent by Dullindal.

Athrun: Backstabber? Oh gee, you wouldn't get the hell out if someone showed you that you were being spied on, and that the higher-ups were suspicious of you, then having soldiers knock on your door? Really, you'd just open the door and say "come on in, soldiers, want to have some tea? Oh, the chairman wanted me eliminated? Well, here's my face, feel free to shoot anytime!"

Athrun was one confused guy. I hate Fukuda for turning him into...a mindless person. Athrun's Obi Wan Kenobi relationship with Shinn Anakin Skywalker is one of the things why GSD failed.

Andrew: Or starship captain.
Murrue: Okay, we get it, you're a hopeless Shinn fanboy. If Shinn wins, it's because of skill as a pilot and strategy, never mind turning five destroys into grunts. If Kira or the Tri-Ships-Alliance win, IT MUST BE A PLOT DEVICE! Here's a hint, the only reason Kira lost in ep 34 was that Fukuda needed to have a good reason to roll out Strike Freedom. Unless you can provide me with a better reason.

After coming out of obscurity with much of their former skills intact (and to which we say, even "improved" as with the rest of the Clyne Faction crew), it is a plot device. Arguing that they were out of service for 2 years does not make them forget their fighting prowess or whatever, is like saying Kira got "Newtype" after staring at the sea for 2 years and getting better at Freedom rainbow spam attack while at it too. For one thing, they couldn't be seen hanging around Orb military facilities because they're wanted by their respective countries/factions, and the fact that the supposed ignorant emirs of Orb (only Athrun and Cagalli should know of their existence) could recognize them and before we know it, there would have been an earlier emir revolt if we're going to talk about Orb ideals of not interfering with other countries' dilemmas or diplomatic situations or what have you. And maybe kill off the GODLY cast before making their debut in GSD (not that I'm complaining). So it's all plot device.

Want more proof? Watch the hideous PHASE 50 again.

Mwu: Well, they REALLY weren't making much of a big deal about his death. GS 49: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, MWUUUUUUUUU! LOHENGRIN, FIRE!!! And then we forgot about the entire ordeal. Or if Neo wasn't Mwu, what would you have done with him? All of his extended are dead, the EA army is utterly no match for one little ship and its 3 gundams, is he just going to sit back and say "ah, shit, oh well?" and proceed to eat Destiny's cannon?

Neo totally destroyed it all for GSD, with his resurrection. He's the coup de grace or whatever that sealed its fate, using that plot device of all plot devices Akatsuki to bring even more injustice to this crap.

You REALLY have no idea what it takes to put an anime or any form of writing together, do you dom33? In fact, here's a little challenge: to show you know a SHRED about storytelling, write a 5000 word original short story about anything you like and post it somewhere people can see it. No need to develop characters too much, just a quick one-event blurb to make us realize you know something about the elements of plot and characterization.

Now this is just harsh. Just because he sees it differently doesn't mean he can't differentiate good anime/story from one that is a complete dud.

But I thought you hated fan fiction?

[Eclipze]

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

But I thought you hated fan fiction?

Um, I believe he writes them.

[Demongod86]

Are you dense, Eclipze? I do not write fanfiction. And I told dom33 about anything he likes, not just fanfiction (preferrably not!). The two girls in my little custom title...are original. Not existing anime characters. Also, it WAS shown that Lacus was building an army. Or have you conveniently forgotten her floating through her factory?

[srb]

Originally Posted by Demongod86

Also, it WAS shown that Lacus was building an army. Or have you conveniently forgotten her floating through her factory?

Oh, it was shown indeed, it appeared out of the blue later in the show without any mention of it at all earlier, and the "army" consisted of three DOM Troopers.

Then several EA and ZAFT battleships and cruisers suddenly materialized out of thin air. Seriously, she had a goddamn Agamemmnon-class carrier, a command ship with several hundred crew. How the hell did the entire crew of an Agammemnon defect and how did the EA not notice it disappearing?

A ship here and there, sure, but she had a rather large task force, without any explanation at all other than "oh, it's Terminal lol" and zero foreshadowing and ZERO follow-up.

That is shoddy writing and you know it.

[Eclipze]

Originally Posted by Demongod86

Are you dense, Eclipze? I do not write fanfiction. And I told dom33 about anything he likes, not just fanfiction (preferrably not!). The two girls in my little custom title...are original. Not existing anime characters. Also, it WAS shown that Lacus was building an army. Or have you conveniently forgotten her floating through her factory?

What the heck? just because I made a little mistake, you have to make a flaming post to me?

Excuse me, I just so happened to read your post regarding how Lacus is a Mary Sue (something like that), and that you'll use them (gundam characters) in some of your writing, which according to you right now isn't fan-fic.

Whats with the Lacus army and your custom title part? are you too dense? Since when was I refering to either of those?

Even though you are a self-proclaimed fanboy, you have just crossed the line of being reasonable in that standard.

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by srb

A ship here and there, sure, but she had a rather large task force, without any explanation at all other than "oh, it's Terminal lol" and zero foreshadowing and ZERO follow-up.

.... ^ .....

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by srb

Then several EA and ZAFT battleships and cruisers suddenly materialized out of thin air. Seriously, she had a goddamn Agamemmnon-class carrier, a command ship with several hundred crew. How the hell did the entire crew of an Agammemnon defect and how did the EA not notice it disappearing?

Eh. Thanks to Dully, the EA must have been used to losing ships by then. For all we know, those guys defected to Zaft before defecting to Terminal. Compulsive turncoats!

[Demongod86]

Originally Posted by srb

Oh, it was shown indeed, it appeared out of the blue later in the show without any mention of it at all earlier, and the "army" consisted of three DOM Troopers.

Then several EA and ZAFT battleships and cruisers suddenly materialized out of thin air. Seriously, she had a goddamn Agamemmnon-class carrier, a command ship with several hundred crew. How the hell did the entire crew of an Agammemnon defect and how did the EA not notice it disappearing?

A ship here and there, sure, but she had a rather large task force, without any explanation at all other than "oh, it's Terminal lol" and zero foreshadowing and ZERO follow-up.

That is shoddy writing and you know it.

I'll agree to that one. Gun on wall in act 1=shot in act 3=must be on the wall in act 1.

@ Eclipze: my apologies, but fan fiction REALLY makes me go . Really, fanfiction is TERRIBLE. The Lacus-in-my-story thing was off the fact that I joked of Lacus being a Jew, so I decided to go on that tangent and develop my own "Lacus". Actually, it's more of a Svyeta.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by srb

Seriously, she had a goddamn Agamemmnon-class carrier, a command ship with several hundred crew. How the hell did the entire crew of an Agammemnon defect and how did the EA not notice it disappearing?

The simplest explanation for this is that it survived the destruction of the rest of the EA fleet. Since EA and Orb were allies at this point, it makes sense for it to join their flotilla.

[Ryuujin]

Originally Posted by srb

and how did the EA not notice it disappearing?

They were too busy being brutally raped by Fukuda- er, I mean ZAFT, to notice...

[Eidolon Sniper]

Originally Posted by Ryuujin

They were too busy being brutally raped by Fukuda- er, I mean ZAFT, to notice...

I think they were all blinded by Akatsuki's bling bling...