why isn't avi dying

[WanderingKnight]

i would say a computer upgrade is needed if it can't handle an mkv container . with h264.

Okay. Will you buy me a new one?

People have priorities. I earn my money working, but I my priorities, right now, lie elsewhere, and I'm looking forward to upgrade my PC only in a year or so. But right now, hell no. PCs are made to last at least 4 years. I'm not gonna upgrade my PC every year a new piece of software comes out.

What are you complaining about? You get a HR h264 encode for 90% of the shows out there. Why do you complain when you're still getting them?

[Milvus]

Originally Posted by sothis

so yeah. i always ALWAYS get the avi version if it exists, simply so i can take the damn screenshots.

Use MPlayer, and forget everything else. Arrow Keys for ultrafast seeking of any kind of file. Continuous grabbing (if you keep the "S" key pressed, the player will just grab all frames you're viewing), very useful for grabbing THE frame you want, not the one before or the one before. Miles better than VirtualDub(Mod).

[emptyeighty]

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

mkv not being the problem there.

People have priorities. I earn my money working, but I my priorities, right now, lie elsewhere, and I'm looking forward to upgrade my PC only in a year or so. But right now, hell no. PCs are made to last at least 4 years. I'm not gonna upgrade my PC every year a new piece of software comes out.

My 7 year old Athlon with 750MHz can play just about any SD h264 fansub. I would say you should thoroughly check if there isn't some way to speed up decoding. Hint: CCCP and/or mplayer + CoreAVC.

[WanderingKnight]

Hint: CCCP and/or mplayer + CoreAVC.

The only thing there to address is CoreAVC. CCCP gives you average playback (read = laggy on old processors).

First of all, I use Linux so CoreAVC is a no-no. Secondly, CoreAVC isn't free. The only way to get it right now is pirating it, since Core has stopped its distribution.

CoreAVC is a wonderful tool, but with CoreCodec being a bitch about its source code I doubt it'll become a massively viable option in the short run.

[emptyeighty]

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

The only thing there to address is CoreAVC. CCCP gives you average playback (read = laggy on old processors).

A misconfigured playback solution will slow decoding down a _lot_. With CCCP there's a noobproof way to get around this.

First of all, I use Linux so CoreAVC is a no-no.

As i said: mplayer + CoreAVC. Whether or not you obtain it is up to you.

[Dnous]

Originally Posted by Echolon

just wondering, why isn't avi dying faster, when you have mkv packs instead, where you can use x264. the quality can't even be compared.

Because some people, for some reason, think that XviD should only be put in avi and not in mp4 or mkv and always must be softsubbed for mkv.

[xat]

Originally Posted by mukansa monkey

The question though isn't why lots of people use avis, it's why fansubbers use lots of avis even though mkv is better for subbing. The answer to which is largely processor limitations. Plenty of people with otherwise functional older machines simply can't play h264 files properly, particularly in the higher resolutions. Whereas those of us with big processors and big screens prefer the higher resolutions. So I expect to see years where lots of people put out dual releases, one smaller in XviD/avi, one bigger in h264/mkv.

Just to clarify, mkv doesn't always imply h264. AVI is still in heavy usage both in general (i.e. on computers) and because certain hardware players are capable of handling them. Users in the former group can easily deal with mkv, but users in the latter are the ones who speak louder (sadly).

The answer definitely wouldn't/shouldn't be processor limitation if you're strictly talking about mkv. We (as in me/the groups I'm involved with) can easily do mkv/xvid releases, but again it's the hardware player group that we end up hearing dissent from.

We're looking to satisfy as wide an audience as possible, and avi/xvid just so happens to cover a major chunk of it. I'd like to do mkv/xvid but you'd be hard pressed to find a hardware player that supports mkv, which is a shame.

Originally Posted by Echolon

i would say a computer upgrade is needed if it can't handle an mkv container . with h264.

If your system can't handle an mkv container, I would say you really are in serious need of an upgrade.

h264 itself is another matter entirely. Most groups that offer an h264 release also offer some lesser alternative, so certainly I don't see any reason for there to be any concern there. If your system doesn't play it, either you're not part of the target audience or something is wrong with your decoding setup. I'd wager that most encoders aren't releasing these intending to make people upgrade.

Originally Posted by Vexx

<shrug> in audio we have about 10 formats in common use after all...

Surely not in fansubbing... Let's see... MP3, vorbis, AAC, AC3, DTS... and if I recall, some group gained notoriety for leaving the PCM track in one of their releases. Okay, five is still a lot but you mainly see the first three.

[emptyeighty]

Originally Posted by xat

Just to clarify, mkv doesn't always imply h264. AVI is still in heavy usage both in general (i.e. on computers) and because certain hardware players are capable of handling them. Users in the former group can easily deal with mkv, but users in the latter are the ones who speak louder (sadly).

If you're going for hardware compatibility then h264 in mp4 will be the future. xbox360 and PS3 already support it and more hardware players like the Kiss1600 will likely follow. Now if only ttxt subs were supported...

[WanderingKnight]

As i said: mplayer + CoreAVC. Whether or not you obtain it is up to you.

Ehm... mind explaining how do you use a proprietary closed-source codec developed only for Windows in Linux?

[tritoch]

Originally Posted by emptyeighty

If you're going for hardware compatibility then h264 in mp4 will be the future. xbox360 and PS3 already support it and more hardware players like the Kiss1600 will likely follow. Now if only ttxt subs were supported...

laptop with tv-out works. I think those new intel-graphics-integrated-into-the-motherboard shouldn't be too pricey now. You did mention xbox 360 and ps3, so price isn't an issue hmm

[xat]

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

Ehm... mind explaining how do you use a proprietary closed-source codec developed only for Windows in Linux?

mplayer has had that kind of functionality for a long time now.

[jpwong]

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

PCs are made to last at least 4 years. I'm not gonna upgrade my PC every year a new piece of software comes out.

Not to be picky, but when I got my "standard user" computer 4 and a half years ago (and this was a model on it's way out too) it was rated at P4 2.5GHz. My Family's slightly higher end computer from 5 and a half years ago is rated at P4 1.8GHz.

I've been told that a computer using CCCP to decode h.264 should have 1.2GHz computing power for smooth operations.

If you have a rig that's less than 1.2GHz, you probably have a machine that's going on 6-7+ years old now.

Personally, I found the largest reason fansub groups are reluctant to change formats and or containers is simply the tech support issue. I saw the changeover from DivX to XVID and channels were being absolutely flooded with tech support requests. It's probably blunted by the use of CCCP nowadays, but few channels want to have their whole chat flooded with people who don't know how to playback files.

[tritoch]

The actual people who have issues with playback are the ones that want to play it in their dvds. You know, people that burn stuff to CDs and hope to play em in their large 1020p t.v.

And uh, there's been huge leaps in terms of technology; new advancements that took 3-5 years are now done in 1 to 2 years so expect your rigs to age faster than usual.

[emptyeighty]

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

Ehm... mind explaining how do you use a proprietary closed-source codec developed only for Windows in Linux?

Just like you use any proprietary closed-source codec developed only for Windows in mplayer You should read the manpage.

Originally Posted by jpwong

Personally, I found the largest reason fansub groups are reluctant to change formats and or containers is simply the tech support issue. I saw the changeover from DivX to XVID and channels were being absolutely flooded with tech support requests. It's probably blunted by the use of CCCP nowadays, but few channels want to have their whole chat flooded with people who don't know how to playback files.

Any fansubbers can send the hordes over to the CCCP forums or IRC chatroom, we'll gladly fix them up.

Originally Posted by tritoch

The actual people who have issues with playback are the ones that want to play it in their dvds. You know, people that burn stuff to CDs and hope to play em in their large 1020p t.v.

Blurry SD xvid fansubs upscaled to 1080p? These people need to turn in their HDTV playback license.

[tritoch]

Blurry SD xvid fansubs upscaled to 1080p? These people need to turn in their HDTV playback license.

I know what you mean! Even normal dvds look bad in 1020p >,>

[GHDpro]

Originally Posted by jpwong

Not to be picky, but when I got my "standard user" computer 4 and a half years ago (and this was a model on it's way out too) it was rated at P4 2.5GHz. My Family's slightly higher end computer from 5 and a half years ago is rated at P4 1.8GHz.

I've been told that a computer using CCCP to decode h.264 should have 1.2GHz computing power for smooth operations.

If you have a rig that's less than 1.2GHz, you probably have a machine that's going on 6-7+ years old now.

Personally, I found the largest reason fansub groups are reluctant to change formats and or containers is simply the tech support issue. I saw the changeover from DivX to XVID and channels were being absolutely flooded with tech support requests. It's probably blunted by the use of CCCP nowadays, but few channels want to have their whole chat flooded with people who don't know how to playback files.

It depends. My old computer is from 2002 and back then it was pretty fast. It has PIV 2.4 Ghz in it. I can imagine other PCs from that era are considerably slower, especially if they're low-end.

Also don't rule out notebooks! They're still selling low-end models with Celeron M 1.4 Ghz CPUs in it. Older model Macs (non-Intel) will also have severe trouble with h264 (unless it's a high spec G5) because the playback libraries weren't quite optimized for non-Intel architecture.

There is also the problem of old PCs being "good enough". If a 7 year old system still functions fine for internet and office apps, some people might not be willing to upgrade.

Having said that, I'd still prefer newer & better (h264 & MKV) over old (Xvid & AVI) anytime.
(Though I suppose I'm a bit biased since my current PC can even play 8 Gigabyte 1080p h264 files fine, so it's not like I have a problem)

[-KarumA-]

Originally Posted by martino

You do know that fansubs are not meant to be watched on a television? For that there are DVDs. You are really making it only worse for yourself if you try to watch a fansub on a standard definition TV... n_n

/me suggests a TV-Out cable as the best option (and a digital LCD TV, analogue should finally die off some day)

I know theyre not, i have a fair amounth of official anime dvd's lying upstairs as well of series i did like, if i really like the sries i buy the dvd box, if i can find it that is, anime is hard to get by in my country (i dont do shipping) and freakin expensive, there's one site i buy it from but its like 30 euro's per dvd and it can stack up a lot because its around 3 episodes per dvd, i buy boxsets cause its a lot cheaper but only if i find it worth it to buy, i spend more cash on manga than on anime, the store's about 5 minutes from school, hop hop during lunch time and i got something to read

EDIT: some people saying AVI does bad quality, check out the Kekkaishi (un licensed and in the Animesuki list) that quality is probably even comparing to MKV, Yoroshiku that is

[tritoch]

Having said that, I'd still prefer newer & better (h264 & MKV) over old (Xvid & AVI) anytime.
(Though I suppose I'm a bit biased since my current PC can even play 8 Gigabyte 1080p h264 files fine, so it's not like I have a problem)

drool.. wow, just wow. I have trouble playing those 1920x1080 with my 3 year-old pentium m 1.66

hopefully I go duo-core for my next laptop or I could fiddle with my dad's desktop and put in 2 quad cores but then again, I don't have a huge monitor, just a 22'' one so yeah but GHDpro, I want your rig

[WanderingKnight]

Just like you use any proprietary closed-source codec developed only for Windows in mplayer You should read the manpage.

This is the only project around so far that involves porting CoreAVC to Linux, and it's from 23/7/2007, so I'm not expecting any finished project soon with decent results.

I've been told that a computer using CCCP to decode h.264 should have 1.2GHz computing power for smooth operations.

Depends a lot on the file played. All standard definition played fine (under Windows XP) on my 1.5 GHz processor, higher resolution ones were screwed up. On Linux (without CCCP, but I'm told the decoders are the same anyways), 80% of the encodes play well, save for some crude ones like sudo's version of Darker Than Black.

[emptyeighty]

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

This is the only project around so far that involves porting CoreAVC to Linux, and it's from 23/7/2007, so I'm not expecting any finished project soon with decent results.

Incidentally that is the exact project i linked to earlier. The CoreAVC patch has been around and working for months, he's just making it usable under Linux. People tell me it works and this suggests the same.